This is interesting. From the firearm injury center...


September 26, 2003, 12:33 AM

I'm still confused on how they pass or fail certain guns it seems backasswards.

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September 26, 2003, 01:19 AM

The Glock did not pass, but look at its performance.
It passed everyone of the drop it, stomp and abuse it test. Not one shot

Seems like it worked darn well to me.

September 26, 2003, 01:32 AM
I'm scratchin my head at this one....


September 26, 2003, 02:26 AM
Wow, and the D.E. passed (with the highest score???) even though if dropped in a specific manner it can A.D.

Glock seems to have failed because it lacks a "manually operated safety device"

September 26, 2003, 07:09 AM
Looking closer it seems they count how many deaths have been attributed to each type of firearm.

Like that has anything to do with its perceived safety rating.

Brian Dale
September 26, 2003, 07:27 AM
And combined (length + height) must be greater than 10 inches. From another section, get this! The Ruger Security-Six (with transfer bar) FAILED. OhMyGosh - it has no loaded chamber indicator :banghead: and -ah-Ha!!! Here's why: This firearm has a barrel length 2 ¾ inches and does not meet the minimum standards of being at least 3 inches from the import reg's. It's obviously UNSAFE! And they tot up crime numbers for all barrel lengths, and give no context, and ...

Oh, never mind that! We've got to get the word out on these DANgerous Guns - it's for the CHILLLdren!

{Edited to add the following. Note the final sentence, but we know better than to mailbomb people. Polite, as always, folks. :) }

The following is posted on the home page of the "Firearm Injury Center," evidently at the Medical College of Wisconsin, in Milwaukee:
The Firearm Injury Center, founded in 1997, is dedicated to the reduction of firearm injuries and deaths. The Center provides comprehensive, objective, accurate information and analysis of firearms and related morbidity and mortality. The Center collaborates with policymakers, community-based organizations and agencies, and with individuals at local, regional and national levels to support effective prevention strategies._

For further information contact Richard L. Withers, JD, Co-Director, at_
{Further edit: you'll notice that Mr. Withers is an attorney (JD) rather than a physician (MD)}

September 26, 2003, 09:19 AM
Danger From Converted Walther P38 Pistols

Officers should exercise extreme caution with any Walther P38 type pistol. Law enforcement agencies at the Federal, State and local levels plus branches of the U.S. and Canadian military service have encountered Walther P38s having a potentially hazardous conversion.

The conversion consists of a modified firing pin which is activated by placing the safety in the safe position. When the safety is placed in this position, the weapon will immediately fire without the trigger being pulled if a round is in the chambe r. If the safety is engaged with the slide open the weapon will fire in the full automatic mode as soon as the slide is closed. The full automatic is activated by the safety alone. The conversion can be accomplished onpost-war P38s made by Walther or Manu rhin, manufactured since April 1940. Full automatic fire may be accomplished by changing the thumb safety lever.

There is no field test which can be performed to determine if a P38 has this conversion installed and there are no visible modifications. Consequently any Walther P38 type pistols encountered should be handled in the following manner:

1. Do not touch the trigger or safety. 2. Remove the magazine. 3. Place the safety in the fire position. 4. Open the slide and ensure that the chamber is empty. :confused: Never heard that one before.

September 26, 2003, 09:40 AM
The AFT criteria are largely NOT about safety.

They assign the same number of points to a "Click Adjustable Target Sight" (10), which has no safety utility whatsoever, as they do to a firing pin block (10), which IMO is the single most important mechanical safety device in your pistol.

They also give "target trigger" 2 points. The last time I checked, hair triggers on a carry piece struck me as a bad idea.

AJ Dual
September 26, 2003, 10:18 AM
Why is the Medical College of Wisconsin even hosting this material? :confused: I know some of their doctors were doing a gunshot/gun crime study, but this ATF import info?

Oh, Monkeyleg.... Paging Monkeyleg

September 26, 2003, 10:33 AM
What a stupid site with stupid criteria designed and run by stupid people.

I am sure that a firearm that is "just too short" is a real danger so let's take off some points because the barrel is too short/long/straight/round/octagonal/hexagonal/square or has a hole down the center.

What a bunch of maroons!

El Tejon
September 26, 2003, 10:44 AM
Muzzle, very ugly and rough FA conversion. They do they same butchery to other DA (and Glock) pistols.

I remember seeing a LE bulletin (came in over the fax from the feds) on this in '98. Big on the West Coast.

September 26, 2003, 10:51 AM
Unscientific. You also get points for placemenyt of the serial number??? How the heck does that make it safer?


September 26, 2003, 02:08 PM
That's too funny. The Glock failed and the AB-10 (you know, the EVIL GUN) passed.


September 26, 2003, 03:34 PM
The Security Six, WITH safety bar, failed!? That settles it, these guys are idiots. You could run that revolver over with a gravel truck and it wouldn't discharge. I doubt it would even be harmed, in fact.

Guy L Johnson
September 26, 2003, 05:39 PM
You have guns failing portions of the testing and passing, and guns passing all tests and failing ? :confused: But the fullauto Walther was interesting.

September 26, 2003, 05:59 PM
the DEAGLE passed highest?? Me thinks a counter-strike-ophile wrote that site...

September 26, 2003, 06:04 PM
They never said if the Tec-DC9 passed or failed, just that it was an assalt weapon.

Standing Wolf
September 26, 2003, 08:33 PM
If the leftist extremists were even remotely concerned about safety, they'd advocate taking stern measures against criminals and ignore law-abiding American citizens.

Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites.

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