[nsf003]

I just heard today that Pa passed a law stating that everyone in school has to say the pledge or else they would send a letter home to your parents saying that you didn't comply. Your parents must then send a letter in saying why you didn't comply. I, personally, think the pledge of alleigience is good, but that law is unconstitutional. What ever happened to the first amendment? First the pledge, then they'll say we have to pledge alliegiance to help the War on drugs or the War on terrorism. Pledge alliegience to the tips program. To microchips...

Should I be disobedient and not say the pledge, just to excercise my rights? Should I encourage others to do the same?

nsf

[geekWithA.45]

The 3rd? And then....the 4th?

As long as it's just paper, I'm not sure it matters.


Dear Mr. GeekWithA.45,

Little Elroy did not perform obessiance to the flag for the 523rd time.


Just thought you oughta know.



Sincerely,

Ms Jones.


Geek: Elroy, why didn't you pledge to the flag?
Elroy: Gee, Dad, you oughta know better. I pledge to the Constitution.
Geek: Good boy!

[Blackhawk]

What law?

Sounds like a rumor to me, but I'm not in PA....

[Don Gwinn]

No, it matters. If they really passed such an . . . . abomination, then it matters.

How about a law requiring that all members of the PA legislature read 1984 and pass a test on same once per session? Maybe add Catch 22 for this occasion.

[nsf003]

I am 95% sure that it is true.

nsf

[Chris Rhines]

Do you have an article link or something? 'Till I see one, I'll refrain from commenting on what a bunch of totalitarian twits the PA lawmakers are...

My opinion only, the Pledge of Alliegience is not a good thing. Read up a bit on the original author of the Pledge, and what he was trying to advocate (he was an outspoken socialist.)

I wouldn't say the Pledge if it were voluntary, and I sure as hell wouldn't say it if it were mandantory...

- Chris

[SodaPop]

I heard about this over a year ago. I don't know if its been passed or not but JUST TRY ENFORCING IT!!

I think they should require it to be said but not FORCE INDIVIDUALS to SAY it. If your taking Federal funding you better be a Patriot.

[PATH]

We shall see what we shall see when all the facts are in order.

[Marko Kloos]

If your taking Federal funding you better be a Patriot.

And there's no better way to make kids patriots than to require the recital of patriotic slogans. Works so well in Cuba and North Korea...

Favoring compulsory statements of any kind from anyone just because they happen to be temporary wards of the State is hardly "patriotic".

[Glock Glockler]

If your taking Federal funding you better be a Patriot.

So the Feds take my money at gunpoint, take their sizeable cut, and then give me a fraction back abd then dictate how I use it, and I'm a non-patriot if I don't recite their meaningless pledge?

While we're on the patriot thing, I'd like to know what Constitutional authority they have to be involved in education in the first place. You do believe in the Constitution, don't you?

[SodaPop]

And there's no better way to make kids patriots than to require the recital of patriotic slogans. Works so well in Cuba and North Korea...

Lets take swearing to defend the Consititution out of the Military, too, Lendsringer.:rolleyes:

Cuba and North Korea... don't have children say things like:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which is stands,one nation,indivisible,with Liberty and Justice for all."

Until this country puts AMERICA and everything it was founded on back in schools WE ARE DOOMED.

[nsf003]

Chris, everyone, you can start to complain about the lawmakers now. More.

Link here (http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20021114flagp6.asp)

"Pledge of Allegiance school mandate advances

Thursday, November 14, 2002

Associate Press







HARRISBURG -- Students in private and public schools would be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem each morning under a bill unanimously passed yesterday by the state Senate.

The bill, sponsored by Rep. Allan C. Egolf, R-Cumberland, returns to the House for final approval before going to Gov. Mark S. Schweiker because it was amended by the Senate Education Committee.

The committee deleted language that required schools to offer a period of silent prayer or meditation at the beginning of the school day.

Egolf said he introduced the measure, which also would mandate the display of the American flag in all classrooms, after finding that some schools did not ask students to recite the pledge.

"It's getting away from teaching about what our country stands for, what our founders did, and why we have the country we have," Egolf said.

The measure would allow students to decline reciting the pledge and saluting the flag on the basis of religious conviction or personal belief, but school officials would have to notify their parents if they chose to do so.

The Pennsylvania chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has said that it believes the parental notification requirement would discourage students from exercising their right not to participate.

A spokesman for Schweiker would not say whether the governor intends to sign the bill if the House passes it."


This is an earlier story, it was passed a short while ago. January something or other.

nsf

[SodaPop]

, but school officials would have to notify their parents if they chose to do so.

That's where its just flat out LAME.

[Airwolf]

Not only PA. it would appear...

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jan/01052003/utah/17493.asp

Oh good grief... it passed.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_109738.html

[JohnBT]

Ooooh. Let's do away with report cards. Parents don't need to know what their kids are doing at school.

John

[Bravo8]

Here is the text of the law, with the addition being bold and underlined. From my take on it, all it says is that schools are required to lead the Pledge, and if a student declines, the school must notify the parents.

I see no problem with it. It is the student's decision to recite the Pledge or not, and his parent's will be notified (who need to be aware of what their children are doing in school and not only grade-wise).

It does not require the students recite the pledge, as is initially reported here.

************************************

See it HERE (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/2001%5F0/hb0592p4707.htm). It is at the very bottom of the page.

Section 771. Display of United States Flag; Development of
14 Patriotism.--(a) The board of school directors in each district
15 shall, when they are not otherwise provided, purchase a United
16 States flag, flagstaff, and the necessary appliances therefor,
17 and shall display said flag upon or near each public school
18 building in clement weather, during school hours, and at such
19 other times as the board may determine.
20 (b) All boards of school directors, all proprietors or
21 principals of private schools, and all authorities in control of
22 parochial schools or other educational institutions, shall
23 display the United States national flag, not less than three
24 feet in length, within all school buildings under their control
25 during each day such schools are in session. In all public
26 schools, the board of school directors shall make all rules and
27 necessary regulations for the care and keeping of such flags.
28 The expense thereof shall be paid by the school district.
29 (c) (1) All supervising officers and teachers in charge of
30 public, private or parochial schools shall [establish and direct
20010H0592B4707 - 28 -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 the conduct of appropriate daily instruction or ceremonies, or,
2 in lieu thereof,] cause the Flag of the United States of America
3 to be displayed in every classroom during the hours of each
4 school day, and shall provide for the recitation of the Pledge
5 of Allegiance or the national anthem at the beginning of each
6 school day. Students may decline to recite the Pledge of
7 Allegiance and may refrain from saluting the flag on the basis
8 of religious conviction or personal belief. The supervising
9 officer of a school subject to the requirements of this
10 subsection shall provide written notification to the parents or
11 guardian of any student who declines to recite the Pledge of
12 Allegiance or who refrains from saluting the flag.
13 (2) This subsection shall not apply to any private or
14 parochial school for which the display of the flag, the
15 recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance or the salute of the flag
16 violates the religious conviction on which the school is based.
17 (d) The supervising officers and teachers in charge of
18 public, private or parochial schools may offer at least one full
19 period per week, for the purpose of affirming and developing
20 allegiance to and respect for the Flag of the United States of
21 America, and for the promoting of a clear understanding of our
22 American way of life, with all of the unparalleled individual
23 opportunities, and our republican form of government, with its
24 responsiveness to majority decisions and demands. Such elements
25 shall be included in this program as instruction in the
26 fundamental principles of our form of government, an
27 understanding of the provisions of the Constitution of the
28 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the Constitution of the United
29 States of America, the values to be found in the freedom of
30 speech, of religion and of the press, the values to be found in
20010H0592B4707 - 29 -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 obedience to the laws of the land and the Commonwealth, the
2 importance of exercising the right of franchise, the obligation
3 of every citizen to stand ready to defend our country at all
4 times from infiltration or aggression by those whose acts and
5 ideologies are contrary to our American philosophy of life.

[BamBam]

Teacher:

"Susie, I'll get you set-up for an abortion..........no need for your parents to know. I'll have to rat you out for not saying the Pledge."

[Tamara]

Lets take swearing to defend the Consititution out of the Military, too, Lendsringer.:rolleyes:

You don't see maybe just a little bit of difference between the 82nd Airborne Division and Mr. Wiggly's Tumble Time Daycare Center?


The whole idea idea of forcing little kids to stand, face in the same direction, perform a ritualized gesture, and then all in unison recite their allegiance to an inanimate object is just a little creepy to me, and I had to do it for the first 12 years of my school career...

[Joe Demko]

It will be interesting to see if I lose my job for not enforcing this abomination.

Note to all: You did notice, didn't you, that both groups of statist control freaks can share blame for this?

[2dogs]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which is stands,one nation,indivisible,with Liberty and Justice for all."

SodaPop

No offense, but isn't there a chunk missing from your version?:D

[Joe Demko]

No offense, but isn't there a chunk missing from your version?

No. He quoted it as it was originally written and said for decades previous to the Eisenhower administration.

[Tamara]

No offense, but isn't there a chunk missing from your version?:D

No offense, but don't you realize it's that a chunk has been added to yours? ;)

[Master Blaster]

"It's getting away from teaching about what our country stands for, what our founders did, and why we have the country we have," Egolf said.

They ought to have a class on the constitution and the bill of rights this could be in junior high at 8th or 9th grade, where the students take a semester to read and understand those documents.

All of our critters in congress and in government should also be required to read it as well as take a test, since they take an oath to uphold it and many of them obviously dont know what it says.

Senators and Congressmen who introduce unconstitutional legislation should have to re read it and wear a big flourescent purple dunce cap for a month.

:fire:

[Tamara]

I'd much rather the students be taught the Constitution than be forced to mumble a meaningless oath of allegiance every morning.

Senators and Congressmen who introduce unconstitutional legislation...

You mean all of them?

Has Congress passed a Constitutional law since the late 1920s?

[SodaPop]

The whole idea of forcing


Your adding to what I said and missing the point.

Where did I say FORCE anyone to say anthing?

[Airwolf]

They ought to have a class on the constitution and the bill of rights this could be in junior high at 8th or 9th grade, where the students take a semester to read and understand those documents.

In a STATE RUN SCHOOL?!? We'll see pigs clogging the Air Traffic Control system before something like this happens.

The LAST thing that the state wants to do is to give kids the tools to question government. The system as operated now puts a large group of lemming-like Taxpayer Units into production each year. While true that over the course of time some of them wake up, realize that they've been had and resist, a great majority simply continue to be drones their entire lives.

Teach the kids how this country is SUPPOSED to be run, how to think and reason? The System would implode if they discover that the Emperor has no clothes.

[2nd Amendment]

Just as bad as trying to stop people from saying the Pledge. I say it because I want to, because it means something to me. If you want kids to say it then teach them about this country, its' history and meaning and what it cost to create it and keep it. Legislating they say it by rote is counter-productive and meaningless.

[Azrael256]

I can remember saying the pledge every morning when I was in elementary school. The principal would come on the PA system in the school, and we would all stand and recite it. I don't really recall anybody refusing. Of course, it was elementary school, so we weren't sophisticated enough to really have a clue what was going on.

Personally, I think this system works just fine. The principal/teacher leads the kids, and anybody who doesn't want to participate just doesn't, and nobody sends a letter to mom & dad, the local cops, the FBI, fatherlan... er... homeland security, or anybody else. I just don't see what the purpose of this law is... I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by that.

[2dogs]

golgo-13

The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy. It was first given wide publicity through the official program of the National Public Schools Celebration of Columbus Day which was printed in The Youth's Companion of September 8, 1892, and at the same time sent out in leaflet form to schools throughout the country. School children first recited the Pledge of Allegiance this way:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
"The flag of the United States" replaced the words "my Flag" in 1923 because some foreign-born people might have in mind the flag of the country of their birth instead of the United States flag. A year later, "of America" was added after "United States."

No form of the Pledge received official recognition by Congress until June 22, 1942, when the Pledge was formally included in the U.S. Flag Code. The official name of The Pledge of Allegiance was adopted in 1945. The last change in language came on Flag Day 1954, when Congress passed a law, which added the words "under God" after "one nation."

Originally, the pledge was said with the right hand in the so-called "Bellamy Salute," with the right hand resting first outward from the chest, then the arm extending out from the body. Once Hitler came to power in Europe, some Americans were concerned that this position of the arm and hand resembled the Nazi or Fascist salute. In 1942 Congress also established the current practice of rendering the pledge with the right hand over the heart.

The Flag Code specifies that any future changes to the pledge would have to be with the consent of the President.

(The above article on the history of the Pledge of Allegiance was written by American Legion)

1. There weren't a whole lot more "decades" before Ike for the Pledge, than decades after. My version is the only version I ever learnt.
2. The original version had no "to the flag of the United States" or "of America" in it. Should we go back to that?
:D

[2dogs]

No offense, but don't you realize it's that a chunk has been added to yours?

Tamara

Yeah, I like the one I repeated, robot like, for many years of my misspent youth..........................:D

[spacemanspiff]

how is requiring students to make an attempt at being patriotic different than requiring students to make an attempt at being religious by saying a prayer at school?

i dont see much of a difference. if religion is to be taught in the home, then so should patriotism. schools should only focus on academics, not nationalism. teach them why some people are patriotic but dont make them feel different for not being such, if thats what their parents teach, and how the child feels.

[Airwolf]

There's actually a bit more to it.... :D

http://www.eff.org/CAF/civil-liberty/pledge.history

How did this Pledge of Allegiance to a flag replace the US Constitution and Bill of Rights in the affections of many Americans? Among the nations in the world, only the USA and the Philippines, imitating the USA, have a pledge to their flag. Who institutionalized the Pledge as the cornerstone of American patriotic programs and indoctrination in the public and parochial schools?

In 1892, a socialist named Francis Bellamy created the Pledge of Allegiance for *Youth's* *Companion*, a national family magazine for youth published in Boston. The magazine had the largest national circulation of its day with a circulation around 500 thousand. Two liberal businessmen, Daniel Ford and James Upham, his nephew, owned *Youth's* *Companion*.

One hundred years ago the American flag was rarely seen in the classroom or in front of the school Upham changed that. In 1888, the magazine began a campaign to sell American flags to the public schools. By 1892, his magazine had sold American flags to about 26 thousands schools(1).

In 1891, Upham had the idea of using the celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' discovery of America to promote the use of the flag in the public schools. The same year, the magazine hired Daniel Ford's radical young friend, Baptist minister, Nationalist, and Christian Socialist leader, Francis Bellamy, to help Upham in his public relations work. Bellamy was the first cousin of the famous American socialist, Edward Bellamy. Edward Bellamy's futuristic novel, *Looking* *Backward*, published in 1888, described a utopian Boston in the year 2000. The book spawned an elitist socialist movement in Boston known as "Nationalism," whose members wanted the federal government to national most of the American economy. Francis Bellamy was a member of this movement and a vice president of its auxiliary group, the Society of Christian Socialists(2). He was a baptist minister and he lectured and preached on the virtues of socialism and the evils of capitalism. He gave a speech on "Jesus the Socialist" and a series of sermons on "The Socialism of the Primitive Church." In 1891, he was forced to resign from his Boston church, the Bethany Baptist church, because of his socialist activities. He then joined the staff of the *Youth's* *Companion*(3).

By February 1892, Francis Bellamy and Upham had lined up the National Education Association to support the *Youth's* *Companion* as a sponsor of the national public schools' observance of Columbus Day along with the use of the American flag. By June 29, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a national proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the national Columbus Day celebrations for 1892(4).

Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, wrote the program for this celebration, including its flag salute, the Pledge of Allegiance. His version was,

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands -- one nation indivisible -- with liberty and justice for all."

This program and its pledge appeared in the September 8 issue of *Youth's* *Companion*(5). He considered putting the words "fraternity" and "equality" in the Pledge but decided they were too radical and controversial for public schools(6).

The original Pledge was recited while giving a stiff, uplifted right hand salute, criticized and discontinued during WWII. The words "my flag" were changed to "the flag of the United States of America" because it was feared that the children of immigrants might confuse "my flag" for the flag of their homeland. The phrase, "Under God," was added by Congress and President Eisenhower in 1954 at the urging of the Knights of Columbus(7).

[Gray Peterson]

This is rather ridiculous.

Using the recital of the flag as a measure of patriotism, and sending letters to parents when they refuse to, smacks of pressure to recite an allegiance, smacks of the worst kind of lemming-like mentality that is running our schools nowadays. This is nothing more than pressuring children, especially older children, into reciting a pledge that is against their beliefs.

[cordex]

Laws requiring kids to say it.
Laws requiring schools to report kids who don't.
Laws requiring schools to prevent the pledge from being said.
Adding/removing words so as not to offend.
Whatever.

All silly.

Love the rhetoric on both sides, though.

On the one side we've got the "compulsory" and "required" (not really as any student can choose not to say it with - as far as I see - no adverse impact) and bringing up the bit about "well, it was changed this year" (and ignoring the previous changes).

On the other we've got people playing the "patriotism" card, as if Patriotism is judged based on chanting rather than the meaning that some place on the words - something that can't be legislated.

[Joe Gunns]

Have had mandatory pledge in WA State for quite some time now(Maybe 25 years). Few years ago, went from weekly to daily observance. Kids w/ objections stand silently while others recite. If teacher had a problem, had kid volunteers lead it. At first there was all the moaning, complaining, threatening, arguing on moral, constitutional, pain-in-the-*** grounds like here. When actually implemented? No problems. I think one or two parents tried to make legal cases out of it, as far as I know these went nowhere.

[SodaPop]

This is nothing more than pressuring children, especially older children, into reciting a pledge that is against their beliefs.

Lon- Did you really mean that???

God isn't in the pledge anymore? It shouldn't have been in there the first place I AGREE but whats wrong with it now? What words in the pledge are against someones beliefs?:uhoh: Liberty and Justice for all?

[Bravo8]

You guys seem to be a bunch of alarmists. While the law does seem to pressure the kids to recite the pledge, it does not actually require them to recite it. The law was enacted (for anyone who cares to actually know) because of various schools that were refusing to recite the pledge. People wanted it, but the school said no.

I stopped saying the pledge somewhere around 9th grade. Some teaches cared, some didn't. I was still strong enough to stand up for my convictions, and my parents were fine with it. "I'm going to tell your mommy on you" isn't going to work unless the parents disapprove, in which case they will be teaching their kids what they believe.

You have yet to show what is so evil abou this.

[SodaPop]

Bravo8- BRAVO!!!!!


Do we need to bring back the old "sticks and stones may break my bones but God in the Pledge will never hurt me?"


Oh sorry I added to it.

[pax]

If we didn't have compulsory public schooling, there would never be unsolvable controversies like this. Parents could choose what kind of schools to put their kids into, with whatever outward show of (patriotism, religious fervor, political leanings) seemed good to them.

But as long as we are all forced to pay into the same system, and as long as it is difficult-to-impossible for most people to break free of the system, there will be clashes between folks who want their own kids taught one thing and folks who want their kids taught the exact opposite.

pax

A general State education is a mere contrivance for molding people to be exactly like one another; and as the mold in which casts them is that which pleases the dominant power in the government, whether this be monarch, an aristocracy, or a majority of the existing generation; in proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by a natural tendency over the body. ... All attempts by the State to bias the conclusions of its citizens on disputed subjects are evil. -- John Stuart Mill

[JOE]

not true...........get ur stuff .........right before you incite

[David Park]

Am I the only one who noticed that this law affects public, private and parochial schools? That seems to be stepping way over the line. Regardless of the merits of reciting the Pledge, I don't want to see the gov't gaining (more) control over the daily routine in private schools.

[Ted Bell]

Two points:

1. Why do we continue to insist that public schools take the place of parents by socializing our children? Obviously a rhetorical question because the institutions that used to be responsible for teaching children have broken down -- the family, churches, etc.

2. In my way of looking at the world, if I am required to do/say/recite something it soon becomes meaningless. I want my children to be patriotic because they choose to be and because that was the example my wife and I set in our home.

[alan]

NSF003 asked:

Should I be disobedient and not say the pledge, just to excercise my rights? Should I encourage others to do the same?

nsf

Answer, at least mine would be, ABSOLUTELY.

Are you sure that this had been enacted, or is this simply something that "you heard", which might not be correct?

[TheLastBoyScout]

I'm in PA, it is a law, but the only ones who don't say the pledge are either :
a) contrary *******s who said it before and just don't like being required to say it now
or
b) to the left of Lenin (one of these geniuses said with a straight face the only reason he'd rather live in the USA than Iraq was "we have better infrasructure and living conditions" and that saddam was better than Bush b/c "at least saddam is only f---ing with his own people)

My POV is : Its a free country, but if you don't feel you can swear allegiance to it, use your freedom to move somewhere else where americans don't have to listen to your ****.

[pax]

Category a) sounds like my kind of people.

pax

if they give you ruled paper, write the other way. -- e.e. cummings

[alan]

I repeat my question. Am I misunderstanding, or has this proposal actually been passed. If so, consider the following. In 1943, at the height of WW2, in a case from West Va, the USSC ruled the law UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I believe that this one would be also, as well as dumb. By the way, one more question. If a student refused to say the pledge, and upon notification the parents replied something to the effect of, or exactly SO WHAT, what then? To whom might this disasterous situation be reported?

[Marko Kloos]

Then the teacher can put the parents' names in his book, and convey that information to the other parents at the next parent-teacher conference. The parents have a right to know whether there are unpatriotic elements in town, you know. The other parents may feel it's their patriotic duty to "encourage" the errant few to move to another country, somewhere where they don't love freedom as much.

[cordex]

I'm in PA, it is a law, but the only ones who don't say the pledge are either :
a) contrary *******s who said it before and just don't like being required to say it now
or
b) to the left of Lenin (one of these geniuses said with a straight face the only reason he'd rather live in the USA than Iraq was "we have better infrasructure and living conditions" and that saddam was better than Bush b/c "at least saddam is only f---ing with his own people)
Oh really?
No category for those with religious objections, or who feel that their dedication is not to a flag or a Republic, but to a Constitution?
My POV is : Its a free country, but if you don't feel you can swear allegiance to it, use your freedom to move somewhere else where americans don't have to listen to your ****.
So ... "You're free ... to do as I like ... 'r get outta my country."

I believe that having a pledge or having the word "God" in that pledge are harmless to even the most simple-minded kids as long as the parents show a basic amount of attention to rearing them, but this simplistic "If'n you don't do as I do, you're either a dirty A or a filthy B" mindset is utterly illogical and absurd.

[Sean Smith]

I love it... not saying the pledge is legislated as a Stalinist mindcrime for the kiddies, and its opponents are slandered as leftists? Good call! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif

Here is a thought: the pledge is meaningless if you don't want to say it. So why make people say it? That's like making Yankees watch NASCAR... sure, it might convert a few by sheer mindless repetition (see the cars go round and round, round and round...), but is mostly a waste of everyone's time.

Genuine patriotism would require a historical education for our kids that isn't a total joke. And encouraging critical thought. But wait, we are talking about PUBLIC schools, so forget I ever brought it up. :rolleyes:

[TheLastBoyScout]

I didn't mean to say ALL of the people with objections fall into these categories, but all the people I HAVE SEEN in school do.
The ending comment was a suggestion. If someone honestly has that much of an objection to the USA, it would be nice to see them actually show some commitment and ACT on their objections.

[cordex]

I didn't mean to say ALL of the people with objections fall into these categories, but all the people I HAVE SEEN in school do.
That is decidedly not what you said originally.
[...] the only ones who don't say the pledge are either [...]
And as to this:
The ending comment was a suggestion. If someone honestly has that much of an objection to the USA, it would be nice to see them actually show some commitment and ACT on their objections.
So, anyone with problems with the US as it stands today should kindly leave?
I don't understand how having an objection to chanting a pledge of loyalty to a banner representing the Federal government is evidence that one depises our country enough to want to walk out.

[NewShooter78]

Well I never liked saying the pledge in school because it was just a pointless part to the day. Everyone would gripe about it, but get out of their seats and say it. If I didn't get up, I got in trouble. I wasn't forced to say it, but if I didn't get up I would get in trouble! I learned my sense of patriotism from my father, a 28 yr veteran (and mom gave me a good sense of it to!) and American and world history. I don't agree with teaching religion in public school either, not that religion is bad, but usually religion isn't taught in school only Christianity. Its a mindless law in my opinion, but I also think that it will just fade into the background in a few months as well. And while I agree that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights should be heavily taught in school, the problem with that is the interpretations the teachers will offer the students. While most "liberal" teachers will sing the praises of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments, they will more that likely skim over the 2nd, 3rd, 9th and 10th amendments.

[MJRW]

Isn't this the basis for brainwashing? Begin at a young age, create a social pressure to conform with an "in" group (the pledge sayers) and an "out" group (the ones who get letters). Conform in behavior and eventually most will conform in thought thereby creating a nation of unquestioning loyal Christians. You know, put a man in jail and he will become a criminal type thing.

[jimpeel]

That law turns the Pledge into a loyalty oath which has been declared unconstitutional.

I love the Pledge but I recite it willfully; not obediently.

[alan]

Attention Interested Parties:

Spoke with my senator's office, state senator that is, and was told that this Pledge legislation HAD NOT BEEN ENACTED.

It could be reintroduced again, but that's another matter, PA residents might be well advised to contact their elected things, to express their opposition, assuming they are opposed to such foolishness.