homemade shotgun slugs


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huntsman
January 8, 2009, 08:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g06a6RWC4A

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earlthegoat2
January 8, 2009, 09:12 PM
I like his reloading kit. Where do you get one of those.

Frightener 88
January 8, 2009, 09:36 PM
So if Im understanding him, non rifled slugs are accurate out of a non rifled barrel? Can anyone offer more insight into this? Or exactly how accurate you could expect non rifled slugs in a non rifled barrel to be? otherwise, very cool.

earlthegoat2
January 8, 2009, 09:42 PM
Rifled slugs dont pick up rifling in the barrel of the shotgun but rather after they have left it due to the rifling on the slug cutting into the air. Some people believe that slugs really dont spin much at all and if this is true than the video may be correct. He never really defines what long ranges he is referring to and he seems to be pretty close to the target in the video.

huntsman
January 8, 2009, 09:56 PM
I like his reloading kit. Where do you get one of those.


Lee used to sell them, maybe you could find it on Ebay.
I posted this link because what he is doing was just so simple.

earlthegoat2
January 8, 2009, 10:06 PM
Thanks huntsman Im going to check them out. I love the simplicity of it also.

3006mv
January 8, 2009, 10:28 PM
In the opening of the vid I am guessing he is shooting at his target about 50 yards away? I wonder where he got his load data. The Lee slug comes in 1 oz. and 7/8 oz. I would guess the 1 oz. to be a little over or right at 500 gr. His slugs are solid, compared to the Lee which has a slot and somewhat hollow. It looks like he is getting pretty good accuracy. He doesn't even need to use a star crimp starter and it looks like an 8 fold crimp. I wonder what hulls those are Remington ? It looks like he lives in UT.

earlthegoat2
January 8, 2009, 10:33 PM
Hes not using a Lee slug mold. He is simply using 500gr of lead and melting it down and pouring it into what I assume is a close to .73 diameter wooden mold.

huntsman
January 9, 2009, 01:11 AM
Hes not using a Lee slug mold. He is simply using 500gr of lead and melting it down and pouring it into what I assume is a close to .73 diameter wooden mold.

He said a board with a 5/8" hole drilled which would be .625

Snarlingiron
January 9, 2009, 03:00 AM
1 oz. = 437.5 grains.

earlthegoat2
January 9, 2009, 07:38 AM
It wouldnt seem a .625 slug would give any illusion of good accuracy out of a 12 bore even if you accounted for oversize slop in the wooden mold.

flutedchamber
November 27, 2009, 02:21 AM
It's people like Bushboy who give handloading a bad name. How he hasn't blown himself up is beyond my understanding.

His slugs range from 1 1/8+ to 1 1/4+ They are made of wheel weights, WHICH ARE NOT PURE LEAD. NEITHER ARE THE 'LEAD BB'S' HE RECOMMENDS.

Pushing a hard lead slug thru a shotgun with any amount of choke is asking for trouble. The shape of the slug doesn't even have a hollow cavity in the base that COULD collapse under the constriction of the choke.

I didn't bother to look up what load 21 grains of Unique is compatible with, as I am SURE it doesn't list a solid slug cast of wheel weights as a load.

I would call Bushboy an idiot, but it would be a compliment.

Virginian
November 27, 2009, 12:26 PM
Oh my God!
I didn't have the guts to watch his "How to Make Black Powder" video. It could just as well be titled "Death Wish V".

hammerklavier
November 27, 2009, 05:50 PM
The "rifling" on a rifled slug is merely to allow space for the lead to be crushed into as it passes through the choke. If fired through a cylinder it will start the slug spinning, but only at a very lazy and completely ineffective rate.

The hollow in the back of the slug, or that tail thing that Brenneke has, is what provides the stability, not the so called rifling.

plumberroy
November 27, 2009, 07:37 PM
I like his reloading kit. Where do you get one of those.
I have Lee loaders in 410, 28, 20, 16, 12, and 10 gauge they get stupid on price of the 10 ga 28ga and 410's on ebay. if you take your time. you can get a 12 ga or 20 ga set reasonable
Roy

RandKL
November 28, 2009, 04:36 AM
It's people like Bushboy who give handloading a bad name. How he hasn't blown himself up is beyond my understanding.

Perhaps he hasn't "blown himself up" because his load recipe is a perfectly valid one? You being the expert, what part of his video did you find to be incorrect?

Perhaps you *might want to* look up that load info after all.

His base load, just a hair over 1 1/8oz lead and 21gr of Unique, is actually a light, low pressure load. Approx 1200fps at 8500psi. Both loads, the 1 1/8oz and the 1 1/4oz are perfectly safe, by the book loads.

And, as long as we're here, the hollow cavity in a Foster-type slug isn't so it'll compress through a choke....and BushBoy's slug is a .625 diam inside a plastic shotcup wad. It'll fit quite easily through even a full choked barrel.

Damn, the stuff you learn by reading these forums!

r

fireflyfather
November 28, 2009, 06:00 AM
With cheap factory slugs (walmart/winchester) I can get 3-4 inch groups at 50 yards. Looks like he was doing the same, at about 40% of that cost.

Primer, powder, lead, hell, probably even cheaper than $6 per 25 rnds.

tactikel
November 28, 2009, 11:24 AM
Years ago one of the gun writers took rifled slugs, marked a heavy line along its side with a crayon, handloaded them, and shot them at butcher paper. The slugs rotated little if at all. The rifling has no practical value from a smoothbore.

huntsman
November 28, 2009, 03:04 PM
While I'm not ready to give up my Brenneke or Sluggers and I'm going to buy a Lee Slug mould for when I can't get commercial slugs, the video info is filed away for and if TSHTF and my other options aren't available.

rcmodel
November 28, 2009, 03:16 PM
And, as long as we're here, the hollow cavity in a Foster-type slug isn't so it'll compress through a choke....Yes, it is actually.
And to allow it to expand to fit the bore like a hollow-base Minie Ball.
And to make it lighter in the back then in the front.

Forster & Brenneke style slugs fly point first and stable for the same reason a badminton shuttlecock does.
It is heavy in front and light in the back.

Slug rifling cannot provide spin, because the supersonic shock-wave over the blunt nose creates an air burble behind it, and no laminar air flow over the "rifling" can take place to make the air spin the slug.
The rifling vanes are effectively "stalled out" until the slug goes below sub-sonic at extended ranges past 50 yards or more.

The "rifling" really is to give excess lead a place to go when shot through tighter chokes.

rc

fireflyfather
November 28, 2009, 04:13 PM
the .625 slug is essentially a sabot, since it's loaded into a shot cup/wad, as far as I could tell. Wouldn't the choke be deforming the shot cup, rather than the slug, anyway? Also, it is possible that he only shoots these through a cylinder choke. He probably should have mentioned that for other people's safety, but that doesn't mean what HE was doing was unsafe.

RandKL
November 28, 2009, 09:17 PM
Yes, it is actually.

No, it isn't actually. It has nothing to do with it, in fact.

The hollow base is for stability in flight, nothing more. It has nothing to do with fitting through the choke. Rifled slugs have grooves, (rifling of a sort) that compress to fit through the choke. Some brands of rifled Foster-type slugs have bars molded into the bottoms that prevent the hollow from collapsing, others have X's molded in for the same reason. Some slugs even have a glass marble shoved up into the hollow base to prevent collapsing. Brenneke "rifled slugs" are even molded solid with no hollow.

The hollow has nothing to do with fitting through the choke.

Foster-type slugs also do not expand to fit the bore. They tend to collapse in upon themselves. To expand, they would have to have a gas seal ON the slug with no padding/wadding behind them. The gas seal, though, is created by the wadding behind it and it tends to collapse the slug in front. That's why so many diff methods of keeping them straight exists.

Anyone found any problems with his reloading method yet?

rich

fireflyfather
November 29, 2009, 01:16 AM
I'd like to know what hulls/wads. I just won a LL 12 gauge on ebay. Not going to do this anytime soon, but maybe next spring when the weather is nice. He said "AA wads", but that doesn't mean anything to me. Also wonder what an equivalent charge of promo would be. Have to start breaking out some load data now.

hub
November 29, 2009, 12:34 PM
I'd like to know what hulls/wads. He said "AA wads", but that doesn't mean anything to me.

He was talking about the brand. Winchester AA.

hulls
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0009260210772a.shtml

wads
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_19725?cmCat=CROSSSELL&cmid=PP_P2_1

hub
November 29, 2009, 12:51 PM
Also wonder what an equivalent charge of promo would be. Have to start breaking out some load data now.

Here ya go, some Promo recipes.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?page=/reloaders/powderlist.aspx&type=2&powderid=22&gauge=12

I would probably not drill a 5/8 hole in a board to cast slugs when the Lee or Lyman slug mold is pretty darn reasonable unless that was the last option. Accurate load data is already established for both to take any guessing out of the equation. Like RandKL pointed out, it can be done but I would get a Lyman or Lee slug mold just for accuracy and or safety's sake.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=148

fireflyfather
November 29, 2009, 02:07 PM
Thanks. I was already intending to go to the alliant site. As for his casting method, as long as they mic out to the right diameter, and weigh in at 500 grains, I shouldn't think it would matter that much. I've done a fair bit of cartridge reloading, but the shotshell slugs are a new game.

It's pretty much the same safety rules, though, isn't it? Weigh your charge, weigh your projectile, (use the right wad!), and make sure the OAL comes out right (in this case, the crimp isn't cratered down or puffed out from flush).

I'm trying to figure out WHICH waa wads he was using. It's my understanding that the wad selection process is complicated.

RandKL
November 29, 2009, 06:11 PM
I'm trying to figure out WHICH waa wads he was using. It's my understanding that the wad selection process is complicated.

Not complicated at all. If you're a book reloader, just find your fav 1 1/8oz 3 dram load and use it. His method is simply loading valid shot charge table data into a slug load. It used to be a common method for reloading. It's perfectly safe as long as your diam, your lead weight, and your powder are accurate, as you said.

If you're a Lee reloader, as BushBoy appears to be, you'll already have a large bag of short wads and a large bag of long wads....brand makes no real diff in the Lee method if you use common sense.

Just checking the books, a Win AA hull, Win209 primer, 1 1/8oz of lead, and 21 grains of Unique would be a standard WAA-12 wad. You can sub a Remington RXP-12 wad (the only wads I use anymore) for the same recipe, but the crimp might sink just a *hair*. If you go RXP-12, bump the powder up to 22 grains Unique and your shells will be fine. Both are low pressure (9,000psi), what would be called "reduced recoil" loads. You won't hurt your gun using either.

richard

Zoogster
November 29, 2009, 07:10 PM
It's people like Bushboy who give handloading a bad name. How he hasn't blown himself up is beyond my understanding.

There is a lot of relative forgiveness in slight projectile weight variations in shotgun loads. This is because the total payload is so large.
As long as the powder measurement is exact a moderate payload variation in a low pressure loading is not going to make such a big difference that it will be unsafe.

Which is why Bushboy's casual method works.
His load is also low pressure, giving even more room for payload variations. If his load with a 500 grain projectile is about 8,500 pressure, and max Saami specs for a regular 12 gauge are 11,500 there is over 3,000 to spare. Or only about 74% used, leaving a 26% pressure safety margin.
Since the projectile payload in a shotgun is so high, a variation of as much as 50 grains in projectile weight is only going to be 10% more in payload. Which even with aggressive powders is not going to push such a low pressure load over the top.
He is casting undersized projectiles, so the danger in it becoming a barrel obstruction from slight diameter differences, less than precise wood molds, or even a shotgun choke is also very low, even with casual molding.
He is also shooting a smoothbore, and maybe even a cylinder choke. Which would mean even the hardest slug in a plastic wad cup is not going to be dangerous. If it was a cylinder barrel the undersized projectile could be made of tungsten and still be safe.


Overall there is so much margin for error in his method and chosen load formula that the only thing he really needs to keep right on target is the powder measurement. Which he appeared to be quite careful in measuring.


What he does so casually works because of every thing he does. Undersized projectile, low pressure, but exact powder measurement.
If people follow his instructions they will be fine. If they apply his methods to other loads and reloading in general they may not be.


The real danger is people learning to reload from him and then applying the same casualness to rifle or pistol cartridges.
Where the pressure variation of light and fast calibers is huge with a slightly altered payload.
Or those trying to load a different formula 12 gauge cartridge near 11,500 pressure as casually.

Mr. T
December 1, 2009, 12:17 PM
I mistakenly loaded sabot rounds into one of my smooth bore shotguns for hunting which can easily put 4 out of 5 rounds in a paper plate at 100 yards....needless to say the accuracy was terrible and I missed one of the best hunting opportunities of a lifetime. 3 very large bucks running together off of a drive at about 35 yards away. If I had used my normal foster slugs I would have had 2 if not all 3 laying there instead I was forced to track one wounded buck that actually charged me with his head down after I blew his rear leg out of the hip socket. We tracked that deer over a straight up and down hill and over a mile away --- tough buck. Anyway I digress -- use the right slug for the right barrel and you won't be disappointed.

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