[Detritus]

in the course of the past few weeks a small "itch" has become noticable to me. the itch to start seriously looking into a target style .22 pistol. thing is i don't know enough about what's out there right now to make a truly infomed decision, or even to know what i should be flipping looking for really..

At this point i think a short history of me a guns of this type may be in order.

at the age of about 13-14 i was taught to shoot a handgun, using a 1967 High Standard Supermatic Citation w/ "military" grip (grip shape like a 1911). this is gun with a 7" bull barrel that shoots better at 25 yards than many .22 rifles! got to use this gun on a regular basis while still "living at home". i'm slowly working on my father to make sure that if he DOES ever try and sell it that i get first shot at it.
Also, i rather like the Ruger .22 autos and growing up got to shoot examples from both extremes of the design evolution of this gun (early, just post alex strum death, "standard" and a 1990 production MkII)

over the years since i've shot other .22 autos, but only a time or two, and i don't have a clear enough recollection of those other guns to use those experiences to my advantage in shopping around.

as for what any new (to me) .22 auto purchase would be used for..
plinking and general target shooting (we don't have a smallbore competition that i am aware of at my local range, so not worried about that type of target shooting yet but MAYBE later)

to teach my wife and step-daughter how to shoot handguns

and MAYBE, if i feel like it, an occasional trip out to the .22 pistol silhouette match just for the heck of it (yes i know this is more of a "need dedicatred gun" use but i'm not sure i'd like silhouette yet so not ognna buy a dedicated gun yet)

so if i haven't over loaded you with info, what info, advice, and suggestions as to what to get, can you gentlemen and ladies provide??

buy a Ruger (the goverment competion looks good)?

find a Hamden or Hartford High Standard like i learned with..?

or are there better guns for the same or not much more money out there??

BTW i DO have a max budget of about $450 at this time, and that's only if i cna find something i KNOW will shoot like that old Citation did (actually it's b/c that's what a near mint Hamden Citation i saw a few months back was going for.)

thank you for your time.

[Murphster]

Could I add to this request by asking if .22 sages who respond to this would add some information about ease of disassembly and assembly of the various models. I've frequently been frustrated by the plethora of tiny, soon-to-be-lost parts that some have. Thanks.

[rick_reno]

With your $450 spending limit you'll be able to pick up a nice Ruger - or you could look for a Hamden High Standard, most of the good ones I've seen sell for around $500-$700. You didn't mention the Russian IZH35, it's a good target gun that is in your price range, read about it here http://izh.petebrunelli.com/ There is a place in Texas (CDNN?) that used to sell them for about $380. There probably is a bullseye league in your area, you could go here http://www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/ register and and ask, I'm sure you'll find one. Showing up at a match is a great way to try out various pistols and see what you like. Up this way most folks shoot Rugers, High Standards, Pardini's and those Russian IZH's.

[ACP230]

I am please with my Ruger Mark II bull barrel with a Tasco Pro-Point mounted on it.

I did recently see an old High Standard in your price range on a for sale board somewhere. You might check www.sturmgewher.com or www.subguns.com, or the big list of guns for sale at www.benchrest.com/shooters/corner.

I used to shoot a High Standard occasionally as a teen ager, but never could afford one back then.

[Kruzr]

With your budget constraint, it will be hard to beat the Ruger. The people who have a hard time taking them apart are the ones who can't seem to follow instructions. Once you understand the interaction of the hammer strut and mainspring housing, its a cinch to get them together properly. New ones can be tight and once again, if you follow Ruger's instructions, its not a problem to get them apart.

Parts can be hard to come by for the Hi Standards but they are very nice pistols with great triggers.

[Dorrin79]

Ruger's are a good buy; you can also find them used a lot of the time (and it's not like they wear out...)

I'm very fond of my MK II Target.

[Detritus]

The people who have a hard time taking them apart are the ones who can't seem to follow instructions. Once you understand the interaction of the hammer strut and mainspring housing, its a cinch to get them together properly.

back when i was still in HS i spent a couple hours learning how do do that, probably in desparate need of more practice now :D but i agree, those that whine about this, are those who don't wanna take the time to sit down with instructions and learn how! sheesh you'd think they were all glock owners (you know slap the parts in then shove teh slide ont eh frame and it's back together) or something :rolleyes: [kidding]


as an aside ont eh subject of Rugers and their take-down/re-assembly... ever watch two grown men sitting on the living room floor trying to remember how to get one back together, WITHOUT instructions, when neither one has had one of the dern things apart in a good 10-15 years?? :evil: saw this the day my father bought his ruger back from my eldest uncle (dad sold him the gun back in the early 70's). i tired SO hard not to laugh.:D

Murphster
you might want to elaborate slightly, do you mean completely stip down or simply the ease with which you can get to the point of being able to clean from the breech end??

in the case of "easiest to get to where you can properly clean the barrel" the High standard guns with the "push button" pretty much take that prize.

you lock the bolt back, then push the under barrel Plunger in (a padded spot on your workbench helps here), then lift the barrel away from the frame. the barrel had/has a "mushroom head" lug that the spring-loaded plunger locks in place, much less involved than stripping a Ruger for cleaning

[Murphster]

Detritus: I don't mean complete disassembly. I mean a stripping down for complete cleaning from breech. I'm a gun cleaning fanatic. I once had a Stoeger Luger .22 which I recall seemed to be made up largely of bent paper clips. I currently own a Whitney Wolverine that has many small parts that leap from the gun during disassembly. Had a Ruger. I liked the fact that you ended up with a relatively few sizeable chunks of metal when you disassembled it. But I've never owned or examined .22's by High Standard, Browning, or some of the other target brands mentioned above. I appreciate those with the patience, skills, and instructions-reading abililties to deal with intricate .22 mechanisms. I'm just curious as to whether some of the other brands lean toward simplicity in design or not. Sounds like the High Standard is easily maintained.

[Graystar]

You will probably never regret buying a Ruger Mark II Stainless Bull barreled 5 1/2" Target. I have this gun and the Competiton and I like the 5 1/2" better.

With the Competition model, you are paying for extras that you really don't need. You are paying to have the receiver drilled, a scope mount, extra machining on the crown, and wood target grips.

The best mount for a red-dot sight is the SoLow (www.solow.com) and it fits any Ruger Mark I, II, or 22/45. The Ruger scope mount is short, and puts the sight forward...it could be better balanced. You'll probably end up having to switch it for a longer one. Ruger will exchange it for 5 bucks. Avoid the issue and go with the SoLow when the time comes. The crown machining may technically make the gun more accurate, but the 5 1/2" is probably more accurate than you'll ever need. The grips are so-so. I prefer a Hogue grip. The grips are are also right-handed.

So save yourself 60 or more bucks. Stick with the 5 1/2" bull. That 60 bucks will buy you SoLow mounts and a Hogue grip. And stay away from the Government model. You're paying extra just to have Ruger sight the gun in and shoot a target. You can do that yourself.

Oh, I gotta say though, Ruger's latest blued Mark II 5 1/2" with the wood grips is really a great looking gun! You'll be pickin' up the babes with that one! :D

[Detritus]

You'll be pickin' up the babes with that one!

me thinks my wife might object..... :what: lol

and what works for one gender works for the other as well, and she don't NEED any more help picking up men!! lol

[DougCxx]

I'm all over ya!
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35458
~

[45crittergitter]

My Ruger 678 Govt Competition outshoots everything else I own.

[Black Snowman]

My local gunstore says they've had great experiances with the IZH-35s and for ease of use, cleaning, and accuracy my Father's S&W 22A is pretty hard to beat. Even the most expensive varient can be had well within your budget.

Ruger Mk II is an excellent gun but the controls aren't the easiest and I personally think the slab side and bull barrel models are a bit too nose heavy to shoot comfortably for extended periods or for getting on target from a low position like in pin shooting. But those are just my experiances.

I have a Browning Buckmark 5.5 Nickel Target that I love. They're a great gun but a bit on the expensive side. I have mine because I lucked out and got it at dealer cost.

Regular Buckmarks can be had at a reasonable price and you could even find a target model within your budget. The controls are good but complete disassembly for cleaning requires an allen wrench.

[Futo Inu]

Baikal IZH 35

Nuff said.

[Detritus]

anyone have experience with the Buckmark "Camper"??

i think i just found a good deal on one, (regardless have to see if it stays where it is, till after a few other things are taken care of), i THINK it's a camper, 5.5" bull barrel, rubber grips, adjustable sights (think they ALL have em), etc etc.... thing is the frame is anodized a (to me ) rather nice dark green. and i do not see a listing for any color except black anywhere on the browing website (i remeber seeing "non-black" buckmarks a little while back, but not int eh past year or so).

what i'd sort of like to know is, how good is this model, whats a moderately used example worth, etc?? (gun in question has a few minor scratches, but looks fine to me)

[Rich357]

The 5 1/2" bull barreled Ruger MK 512 and KMK 512 are a little lighter than the longer barreled government competition model and IMHO have better balance.

Rich

[Walt Sherrill]

The Ruger MKII Target Competition is hard to beat, as is the S&W Model 41.

But if you already have a 1911, the Marvel Adapater Kit will probably outshoot them all. These are used by serious bullseye shooters -- and may be cheaper, too. Seems as though Marvel will guarantee something like a 1/2" group at something like 25+ yards (or is it 50 yards?). Obscene accuracy.

Pricey, but less expensive than a top-line .22. But you've got to have the base 1911, first.

I had a target Competition which was a great gun, beautiful (stainless) and very accurate, but later bought a Kadet Adapter Kit for my CZ-75B (now mounted on an CZ-85 Combat, when used) and was amazed to see that it shot right with the Ruger, and in some ways was easier to shoot well (given the natural "pointability" of the CZ grip.)

I traded the Target Competition for a nice Witness Sport Long Slide in .45 and have never missed the Ruger.

If you don't have a 1911 or a CZ-75, give serious though to the Ruger, and you CAN find them used.

Disassembly and reassembly of the Ruger is a no-brainer once someone shows you the trick -- you said you've already had one -- or once you really READ the manual.

[RGO]

I have a Buckmark Camper. It's a great gun. As far as I can tell, it's almost the same as the Standard model, but at a lower price. Some of the parts are made of plastic instead of metal on the Camper, but these can be switched out if you desire.

[Sturmgewher]

I purchased a Beretta U22 Neo some time back and was more than impressed. This is a well made pistol from Beretta USA that is simple to disassemble for cleaning and is plenty accurate. I had no problems with this little beauty save for some failure to fires with Winchester Wildcats (clear firing pin impression but no bang) but those accursed rounds have failed in my Remington 597 as well. I stuck with Remington Thunderbolts after that and had no problems.The price is realy competitive with other big gun makers as well at around 250-300.