CCW Run Around


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Ben86
January 9, 2009, 09:16 PM
I live in a shall issue state so my situation so far has surprised me. I submited my application on Aug 19 2008. Of course they took the full 120 days, lame but ok. I was told it was issued on Dec 17. However I have not yet recieved it. For the last half of 2008 up until today I was told it simply hasn't been mailed yet, they are running a little behind, blah blah. Today however I was told that they are now waiting on "information" from the FBI and until they get it, it won't be mailed.

What?!! :confused: How can I go from "issue date" to need more info? Maybe it is issued then still has to wait until the "FBI info" arrives. I plan to call back Monday to get a better explanation. Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any MS CCW permit holders here?

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Ben86
January 14, 2009, 10:20 PM
Today I recieved a letter stating that the FBI did not accept my finger prints and now I have to be reprinted. The only thing I can figure is the finger prints either weren't done right, or got messed up before they reached the FBI because I have never been arrested and they would have nothing to compare them to. This is ridiculous.

Has anyone had this happen to them, or know somebody who was in the same situation?

Could this be Obama suppresion already? :)

MedWheeler
January 14, 2009, 10:48 PM
Uh, no. It has nothing to do with Obama. Your fingerprints were, for whatever reason, unusable. Re-submit them as instructed (were they "hard-carded", or electronically scanned?)
FBI can be picky about print quality.

kurtmax
January 14, 2009, 10:57 PM
Alot of states require a temporary permit to be issued not matter what if one isn't issued or denied in a certain time period. You might want to check and see if you can force them to give you one regardless of FBI info.

I'm pretty sure it's the cops that messed up the prints and not you, and possibly on purpose.

Ben86
January 15, 2009, 12:01 AM
I'll have to look into the temporary permit. Thanks for bring that up.

I'm not going to be able to take care of this until next week unfortunately because the nearest two highway patrol stations only offer service for permits on wednesday and tuesday. Also, unfortunately, during my class time. Typical incompetent government for you.

I have also decided to go to a different station. I hope they are more professional.

Eagles6
January 15, 2009, 12:50 AM
This is what your gubmint congresscritters R 4. Call and raise hell. They serve no other function that I can see. They either issued it or they didn't. If you know someone who knows the county sheriff, get in touch.

sailortoo
January 15, 2009, 12:51 AM
Ben86 - Yes, it happened to both my wife and to me, but years ago, in a place far, far away (Washington state). Sheriffs deputy printed us in the jail facility, using the normal materials and normal routine. Came back NOT useable! Second try, different deputy, all OK. Last time I went to get (out of state) CCW permit in Wash. state, I took my own (local law prints) with me, as I didn't want to drive 2,500 miles again, to satisfy their mistake, and sheriff clerk in Washington got miffed! She took one more print. No problem, went right through. I am now to get a set of prints to RENEW, in NM, as though they didn't already have them on file!
sailortoo

Ben86
January 16, 2009, 10:34 AM
You see sailortoo there must be some unspoken genetic abnormalities walking around who shed their old finger prints like snake skin and get new ones about once a month. They just have to make sure we are not one of them. :)

bl4ckd0g
January 16, 2009, 12:24 PM
Can you get your prints approved from a QuickScan facility? It's like a computer scanner for fingerprints and the FBI should get them turned around in under 3 weeks.

Who knows. Someone might have spilled coffee on your prints, or your application envelope got a little rain-soaked enroute.

MostlyHarmless
January 16, 2009, 03:58 PM
Some deputies are not very good fingerprint technicians. It happens, but there shouldn't be such a backlog that it takes forever to find out.

rscalzo
January 16, 2009, 05:18 PM
I'm pretty sure it's the cops that messed up the prints and not you, and possibly on purpose.



They have no idea if the prints are acceptable or not. Unless you actually spent the time in a class which instructs the actual reading of the prints, most will not know the quality. Some people do not have well defined ridges which require a solution to enhance the prints. Rolling them using cards and ink is not that hard but from time to time, a set is rejected. Never happened to me which was a surprise.

Some states do not allow the use of the AFIS system for anything beyond criminal use. Our system when first install could not be used for any administrative use such as FI cards, taxi licenses, etc. Might have changed. AFIS will check and evaluate the prints before they are transmitted. Not sure is they evaluate if they printed are only transfered to a card.

Ben86
January 22, 2009, 06:53 AM
Well I went to a different geographical location to get printed. Man was there a line! It took me 4 hours to get printed. I did meet a bunch of really cool ccw carriers though. The stereotype of ccw carriers being angry psychos is so pathetically false. Out of about 50 people we needn't take any numbers because we were civilized enough to remember eachother's spot in line and respect it. Unlike the people on the drivers license side. :) Me and several others often held ladies and old men's spots as they sat down to wait their turn.

Anyway the MBI agent printing me joked about the people I got printed by as being rednecks and said that they most likely didn't print me right. He said that a lot of guys who don't know what they are doing stop before the first knuckle. He goes below the first knuckle when printing, and has assured me that none of his prints have ever come back. I hope so.

There was another guy there with the same problem. But he said they took a YEAR to tell him his prints are not accepted!

New applicants used the new scanner system. Which is what I wanted to use because it will tell you right away whether they will be accepted. But I was told the reprints had to be done the old fasion way. Fingers crossed!

BBQLS1
January 22, 2009, 09:23 AM
It happens. We have to take a class for our CCL in Louisiana and we were expressly told to go the HWP headquarters for our fingerprints because they had the best equipment and good personnel. Apparently, going somewhere else for them was putting the usefulness of the prints at risk.

dogrunner
January 22, 2009, 10:31 AM
I really sympathize with you fella's that experience difficulty with the print issue.

By way of explanation I'm a retired LEO/CLEO, and during the course of my time in the field I printed literally thousands of folks.....both good and bad. I NEVER had a set of prints returned because I'd been taught how to do it right the first time!.............Try being a rookie in a jam packed tourist oriented community during a college spring break!!!!!!!!!!!!1..............

Anyway, as a suggestion, closely examine the cards themselves...........look for a complete roll over (that's side to side impressions) look for clarity and definition of the loops/whorls/arches.....with ZERO smearing!

If it doesn't look right, then YOU ought to reject it, ask for a supervisor and push the issue.

That sort of job is something that in far to many instances the least trained (mostly available to get stuck with the chore) wind up doing!..........Force him to do it right, and don't be afraid to object to a mess.....

I have seen prints that were literally just "daubs" and smears..........Now that said, some folks have very, very fine prints and you've gotta wield a 'light' touch when you do them! Too, certain professions leave a person with nearly illegible prints under the best circumstances (bricklayers/masons..etc).

Hope this helps.

PershingRiflesC-7
January 22, 2009, 10:59 AM
When first applying for my license, the first and second set of prints was rejected. The first was done by a jailer and the second was done by the sheriff himself. Finally, the OSBI called and asked me to come to their facility in Oklahoma City. I have been told that I am tough to print, even when being done by the military back in the 70s.

I am told it is now done by AFIS but haven't had a need to do it again.

Ben86
January 22, 2009, 12:07 PM
I swear if they reject my prints one more time I will absolutely insist on being printed by the scanner. Which is mabye what I should have done yesterday. Oh well.

I don't do manual labor (except around the house), and I can see my swirlies really well.

DeepintheHeart
January 23, 2009, 09:33 PM
Don't be too quick to request a scanner. My wife, a Canadian, was renewing her permanent resident card and had to be fingerprinted -- three times. They said if she didn't print well the last time, they'd settle for a police report from every town she's lived in since she married me and came to the US. That was in 1968, and we've lived all over the country. Hope that last printing comes out well for you. That manual labor may be a problem. My wife's a gardener. I think they recommended she rub her hands with alcohol before printing to make the ridges stand out.

tmaca
January 23, 2009, 09:40 PM
You just got caught in the bureaucracy. It's very easy to mess up manually done fingerprints (I know - I used to do them all the time for security clearance stuff in the Army). Many states now use a computerized scanning system, place the hand on a glass screen, push a button, the computer prints out a complete fingerprint card. Unfortunately they're expensive, so not many places have them yet. But you need to complain to your state legislators about it taking so long to notify you of the need for new prints, and all the bad info you received at frist.

conserv1
January 24, 2009, 12:16 AM
After reading all these posts, I wonder if you folks who had "unacceptable" prints would have the police beating your door down if you did "something stupid" and left fingerprints at the scene?
My money says they'd use those "unacceptable" prints and find you.

Ben86
January 24, 2009, 02:28 AM
I read on the dps's website that if they don't get acceptable prints by the third try they will do a "name check" by the ms hwp and fbi. That sounds interesting.

I'm sure that they kept the "unacceptable" fingerprints for future reference. ;)

deepintheheart, the hand scanner failed twice? That's nuts. They are supposed to let you know whether they pass or get rejected right away. My wife is from Vietnam. She's quite familar with the hand scanner, but at least got a 10 year resident card out of it. Now we just have to work on citizenship. I'm not looking forward to that headache.

FlaChef
January 24, 2009, 10:54 AM
in FL they are required to get it approved w/in 90 days, even if the info from FBI does not come through, or their backlog doesn't let them finish the check.
Right now they are way behind due to the obama rush and are mailing them at 90 days regardless unless they have been rejected before that time period.

If your state says 120 days is all they are allowed then what recourse do you have? Is there a temp license, or can you push to have it sent anyway?

bdickens
January 24, 2009, 11:01 AM
Write to your state reps.

When mine went over, I wrote to my state representative, senator and the Governor's office. Guess what showed up in the mail a week later?

Ben86
January 24, 2009, 11:14 AM
I'm going to give them a week to get it to me. After that I'll be raising hell starting with the good'ol govna's office.

Ben86
March 19, 2009, 01:17 PM
I finally got it today! The guy in charge of the permit office took pity on me because I have been waiting 3 months past my issue date to recieve my permit. He said he would give it too me even though the prints hadn't come back from the FBI yet because I had been waiting so long. However, he also told me that in the unlikely event that the second set of prints are not approved I must promise to be reprinted. Fine with me, as long as I get to have my permit.

Lesson learned: even though the prints haven't come back yet, if it's well past your issue date, try to persuade them to give you the permit anyway with the promise you will get re-printed if needed. Oh, and constant pestering may be neccessary. :)

dirt_j00
March 19, 2009, 01:42 PM
Your situation really is unacceptable. Surely MS (my home-state) has some recourse for this...

kanook
March 19, 2009, 02:10 PM
Ben86 in post #12 your problem is that you have your fingers crossed. JUST KIDDING

Ben86
March 19, 2009, 04:23 PM
kanook, actually both my middle fingers may have been fixed in the upright position. ;)

Do you think I should complain to someone high up the ladder for what happened to me?

I was given an apology by the head of the permit division so I guess I'll leave it alone. I only lost 3 months out of a 48 month permit.

I just hate to see this happen to anyone else though.

AllAmerican
March 19, 2009, 04:45 PM
I am so glad that my CWP class was taught by the chief of police and he did our prints in the class himself.

I dont know of anyone from my class whose prints were not useable.

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