[Bentonville]

My son and I have tried on three recent occasions to hit some hand-thrown clay birds. We have the throwing part down pretty well but we can't hit any of them. I was suggested on an earlier post that the 870 P with ghost ring sights is not ideal for hitting flying targets. Please feel free to make suggestions for an appropriate shotgun for us to learn the art of skeet shooting. I had considered a single shot nef from Walmart. Thanks for any input.

[riverdog]

Look for a used Rem 870 field gun which should be had for $200-$225. It's more of a bird hunting gun that should be more appropriate to Skeet/Trap/hand-thrown clay games. It also has the same controls/ergonomics as your 870P.

The 870 field gun I found was $225 OTD in southern CA. After shooting it a bit I changed out the stock to a Wenig New American style (http://www.wenig.com/), but the standard stock may work fine for you and your son. $.02

[Snarlingiron]

Check out the Beretta AL390. I have seen these on sale recently for around $549.00. I consider it to be one of the best shotgun values available today.

It has enough adjustability in the stock to be fit to most folks. It is super reliable and will make an excellent clays gun. You pretty much can't wear it out.

You didn't mention a budget, but in the low to mid priced guns this one is a gem.

Certainly nothing wrong with the 870, I have several, but for second rounds the Beretta will give you a slight advantage over the 870.

[sbarkowski]

Why not just get a longer 28" barrel with bead sights? Probablly cheaper than another gun unless you want an excuse to get another gun ;-). I dont see why it wouldnt fit on an 870P, but I dont own one so I could be wrong. I dont know how much work is involved in removing the rear sight either.

[Virginian]

I agree with sbarkowski. Just get a longer barrel with choke tubes and see how it goes before jumping off the deep end like the rest of us.:) Stand fairly close to the thrower to start with so lead is not as big a factor. As soon as you start to connect your brain will start associating sight pictures with broken targets. Good luck.
P.S. - If you want to speed up the process a little and don't mind a little money well spent, look up Sporting Clays courses in your area and call them and inquire if they can recommend a beginning level shooting instructor. Just One lesson when you are just starting out can make a huge difference. They should be happy to help, because it is in their own best interests.

[riverdog]

A longer barrel would still need to contend with ghost ring sight mounted on the receiver.

[Jack R]

Not sure how the ghost ring sight attaches...couldn't it just be removed with a couple of screws when the gun is used for clay work?..as for a longer barrel.. google up the Kittery trading post in Kittery Maine and check their used barrel section. Iv'e bought a few barrels from them through the web site(870 & 1100) all under $100,and in condition as stated..good people..Jack

[Don Gordon]

I would not get the NEF for claybirds. They generally kick more than a pump. You would benefit with a longer sighting plane with a pump gun.

I second the suggestion for an older 870 field gun. You can find early ones that are only chambered for 2 3/4 in. shells and have fixed chokes for about $200-$225 in used condition.

[SWAMPUS]

Come on ,guys!This is a beginner.No Pump for skeet! Unless you're one hell of a shucker.Semi-auto w/choke tubes will fill the bill.Better yet ,get traditional and get yourself an O/U .Walmart Fausti O/U 12 ga -$500.Good basic gun,comes w/choke tubes.If you really,really,gotta havva pump-Ithaca.Read the posts.The model 37 Ithaca gets more comments than ANY OTHER pump.Reason?It's reliable,well-made,dependable,light to carry,and for home defence-nothing beats the sound of a pump shucking to discourage home invaders!Every criminal in the USA knows and recoginizes that sound.It says--freeze--you're about to be hamburger!

[Fred Fuller]

Jack,

It's possible, but I wouldn't consider it a good idea. IMHO a shotgun set up with a ghost ring is pretty much limited to defensive use or big game hunting- not that it's impossible to overlook the sights and shoot the gun like a normal shotgun, but because the instinct when the sights are present is to use them. And this IMHO interferes with tracking small fleeting targets for a lot of people.

IMHO the truly versatile 870 has a short (18- 20") rifle sighted smoothbore barrel, and a longer (26- 28") vent rib barrel fitted for RemChokes. That way, swapping barrels removes the sights completely and leaves the shooter free to concentrate on the leading edge of the clay target/bird/whatever as they should, rather than being distracted by sights.

JMHO, YMMV,

lpl

[riverdog]

SWAMPUS -- Skeet can be shot easily with a pump, but Bentonville is shooting informal hand thrown clay targets. Since he's got an 870 set up for HD now, shooting clay targets with an 870 field gun makes sense to me. YMMV

[Bentonville]

It makes sense to get another 870 and then I would only benefit from using one or the other without relearning actions, breakdown, etc. I have seen the Express at Walmart. I haven't priced them but are they decent guns? What length barrel do we need for skeet? I am in the process of arranging someone to give us some instruction also. A fellow I know is a state champion in NC and has volunteered to take us to the range where he practices. I just need a gun. Is the finish and action ok on the Express? My Police Magnum has wonderful action but I understand they are assembled in another part or Remington and are supposed to be a slightly better weapon. Neither I nor my son can do squat with shooting flying orange discs however well made the shotgun.

[PJR]

IMHO the truly versatile 870 has a short (18- 20") rifle sighted smoothbore barrel, and a longer (26- 28") vent rib barrel fitted for RemChokes.
I agree and that's how I have mine set up. One 870 with 20, 14 and 28" barrels.

An 870 might not be the first choice for competitive skeet but for practice and keeping in tune with your 870 HD gun it's perfect.

[Fred Fuller]

Bentonville,

Despite all the negative keyboard pounding they come in for, I've had no problems at all with the various Express guns here (currently in 28, 20 and 12 gauge- several in 12 gauge at that :D). However, I have yet to buy a new 870 of any kind- I have a soft spot for 'Cinderella' 870s and rescue as many as I can from the ignominy of the used rack.

Getting another 870 with a longer vent rib barrel seems like a good idea to me. Whatever you do, be sure the gun you are using fits properly, for both you and your son. Gun fit is very important with shotguns, and shotguns are made for 'average' size people- they might not fit you properly if you aren't 'average.' Often the issue is one of stock length, which can be pretty easily adjusted- especially with wood furniture on the gun.

hth, and good luck,

lpl

[Virginian]

Skeet is a specific game. Clay pigeons are not skeets. Neither are they traps. Trap is another specific game. The correct guns for both are different.
If you are going with someone who shoots competitively, that is great. He will get you straightened out properly.

[single stack]

To the OP I'd like to say that to me Virginian and Jack R's
suggestions are the best.

Take along someone that wing shoots or shoots clay targets
and remove the sights from your gun if you can.

Shotguns are to be shot like rifles only in the tacticool department.

Most beginners don't lead the target (certainly not enough, if at all).
They think they are leading it but their perception is incorrect.
A knowledgeable shooter present will identify the problem quickly.

As you all know, owning a fast car don't mean you know how to drive.
Most folks can use some instruction.

Further refining the gun to the game can wait for later.

Try, try again. Breaking clay targets is fun.

SS

[oneounceload]

How about going to a local gun club where they have trap and skeet fields so you can get a consistently thrown target AND some instruction? Most folks I know are only too glad to help out a new shooter with the basics. If the field isn't too busy, see if you can shoot a box from Station 7 to start, then go back to Station 1. From there start working on the other ones.

As to a gun, I would recommend a fairly heavy one so the cumulative effects of the recoil don't bother you or give you a flinch.

Good luck

[redneck2]

As you've noticed, suggestions are all over the map. Replies are given from the perspective of the individual responder.

Imagine you went to a racing site and said "I want to race a car....what should I get?"

To give a really good suggestion, it would be helpful to know...

budget...

actual intended use(s)...formal skeet, trap, sporting clays...

As noted above, if it's just informal hand thrown birds, I'd lose the ghost ring and add a longer barrel with a vent rib to your 870. A single shot will beat you to death.

[SX1guy]

Hi there, you need to try harder, its not rocket science and its not really very difficult...its not the gun either...its just you...try harder...
Aim at the clay, aim at the front edge of the clay, aim in front of the clay until you break it,,,

don't use the sights, focus on the clay while bringing your gun barrel into play and covering on the clay or in front...

Try harder...ok

regards

[pbrktrt]

make sure you are using an open choke ( skeet, cyl, ic ) & load up with some 1-1/8 oz # 9 shot. give yourself all the advantages to start breaking birds & the confidence will grow.

[TAB]

I don't care what your shooting. rather it be a $50 used single shot or a $100k custom made o/u. If it does not fit you, you will do poorly.


1st things 1st check for fit, after pattern the gun.

edit... the info here is actually pretty good.( for what it is anyways)

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/USAMU/usamu.html

[Cover Dog]

Since no one has added this I will...Shotguns are pointed, rifles are aimed.

[TAB]

yeah if you want to miss...

[Zeede]

There's a lot of well-intentioned advice in this thread, but most of it is pointless unless we cover some basics first:

1) What size shot are you using? A home defense barrel without a removable choke will always be Cylinder, meaning it has no constriction at all. This is fine for hand-thrown clays (they're called clays or birds, not "skeets" or "traps") as you want the widest pattern you can, but you also need to use smaller shot to have a dense pattern. If you are blasting at the clays with 00 buck then no wonder you're missing. Stick to #7.5 through #9.

2) You need to check your eye dominance. There are two ways to check this, but the easiest I've found is to point at a distant, small object with your trigger hand. I'm right-handed, so I will give instructions as if you were right-handed too. Point with your right hand at the object. Close your left eye. Looking with your right eye, the tip of your finger should be lined up with the object. By contrast, without moving your hand, if you close your right eye and open your left, the finger should "jump" to the right of the object and not be lined up.

If this is true for you, then you are right-handed and right-eye-dominant. Some people are cross-dominant, and that causes issues with shooting shotguns.

As for the gun you buy, I'll throw my cents in with the suggestion of buying another barrel for the 870 you have already. I'd recommend a 28" barrel with a vent rib. 28" or 30" is considered an all-around length for any of the clay games, but it's not because a longer barrel points better. If your stock fits you, you really can't tell how long the barrel is. Not to mention that you shouldn't be looking at the barrel after you call pull anyhow!

No, the longer barrel is good because it puts more weight out in front of the hands which generally makes the gun balance more neutrally and helps smooth out your swing. A short 18" gun is usually too snappy for most shooters.

Cameron

[transalpian]

I agree, find a gun that fits and practice.

I shoot clay games with a collapsible stock, 12 ga, full choke, FN TPS (pump) 18.5" with AR sights. It is my HD gun and I like the practice clay games gives me. Is it the best in the world for clays? No. If I were "serious" about clays, would I get a nice O/U? Probably yes. Do I enjoy shooting it and does it fit? YES!

And [/blasphamy on] I've been known to run 00 buck for clay a time or two [/blasphamy off]

'alp

[Scoupe]

yeah if you want to miss...

Pointing is the way to go for games such as trap, skeet and sporting clays. If one tries to line up a bead and aim at a flying clay target, they generally miss.

As for a better clay games gun, it's hard to beat a Remington 1100 for fun, reliability and economy, but most of the guns mentioned will perform just as well.

I personally don't find a pump gun to be a huge handicap in clay games "for fun." I obviously don't use one in competition, but once one gets comfortable with the game and the gun, it's surprising how smooth you can be without having to rush.

[GE-Mini-Gun]

While I don't know for sure, it sounds like your aiming right at the bird...it also sounds like your "new" to the sport. Aiming at the bird is common with beginners so don't feel bad, you need to lead the bird, how much depends upon couple (many) things...how close to the thrower, barrel length speed of bird, etc. If the thrower is set up about 10’ or so from you your lead would be approx. 1’-3’ if the bird is going away from you. If on the other hand the birds are crossing (skeet-ish) your lead would be 3’-8’ provided the birds are 15-25 yards in front of you. Takes some practice, but it sounds like you’re already doing that. Another thing, mount the gun, line up the sights then only look at the bird…forget about the sights and keep your face on the stock.

[TAB]

you guys missed my point... you don't "aim" per say, but just pointing the gun does not work either

[Bentonville]

I am learning quite a bit from this thread alone. I have arranged for a time with the guy that shoots in competition. He is also going to let us use one of his shotguns. This will happen in the next month I hope.
I am certainly open to any other suggestions and comments. Does anyone else favor the 1100 semi? Again, thanks for the input.

[45auto]

I have arranged for a time with the guy that shoots in competition.

There you go ;).

That's the way to do it. You saved yourself a lot of time and money.
Listen to him and go from there depending on how far you want to go with clay target shooting.

[Virginian]

I have five 1100s and one 870, so I guess you could say I favor them. Although of course you have to shuck the pump, the targeting 'feel' of 1100s and 870s is about as close to identical as you can get, to me. If you sart shooting competetively, then an O/U or semi will give you one less thing to worry about, which matters at that level, in not having to be cycling the action, but many a straight has been run off with an 870, too.

[SX1guy]

Bentonville, spend the few extra bucks and get an 1100 or 1187, pumpers are not recognized as good shooting guns for the Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays...of course you can shoot one but you are essentially going against the grain of the game...and getting instructions from a pro is the best....
regards

Tab..... Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, 5 Stand and all the other shotgun games are all about Pointing the gun.....focus your eyes on the clay target, bring your pointed gun into covering the clay(end of barrel) or some lead and pull the trigger, your brain automatically triangulates for you...

A good stance & gun hold...good focus with eyes.....call pull....brain triangulates all...pull the trigger, clay breaks...25 straight .:)
regards

[huntsman]

My son and I have tried on three recent occasions to hit some hand-thrown clay birds. We have the throwing part down pretty well but we can't hit any of them

Spend a few bucks on the thrower; get one of those $25.00 pigeon throwers that you can stick in the ground.

Those hand throwers can be fun to use but all but impossible to hit the clays especially if you’re close.

[sbarkowski]

Have you ever patterned your shotgun? If not you should, you learn alot about whats going when you fire a shot. Maybe your shotgun shoots high, low, poor patterns with your ammo choice, etc.