[GlenJ]

I recently patterned some 00 buck loads at home defense distances. Which for me is about 11 steps or 33 feet. One of the rounds I tested was 2 3/4 Federal Premium LE with the flight control wad. I only got about a 2 in spread from this load. Would this be to tight? I also tested Remington 2 3/4 and got about a 8 in spread.

[jeepmor]

The question is whether or not this pattern will penetrate your walls to inrooms or neighbor dwellings. In cookie cutter sardine packed suburbia living of modern day, it's probaby still a better choice than most other firearms for home protection no matter what you choose to fill the chamber with.

The tighter the dwelling arrangement, the more I'd lean towards low recoiling loads to keep the overall energy lower, this less penetration. All that said, a safety slug of some sort might be a better bedstand duty shotshell selection.

My concern is for what's beyond the shot in this case, the to dolt dumb enough to enter my home and threaten my family.

[357wheelgunner]

At that range, even ammo that patterns poorly won't spread that much.

You have to aim a shotgun in a close range defensive situation. You can't just point it like when shooting clay birds 30 yards away with birdshot.

[Dave McCracken]

Buck users fall into 2 camps. Spreaders want as much spread as they can get at close range.

Chokers want as little spread as possible, with all pellets going into something like a 5" hole.

Mod Lee Lapin likes spread,within reason.

I'm a choker. Any HD shotgun may need to become a Community Defense shotgun. Think Katrina and NOLA, where citizens kept some areas safe while order was absent.

All defensive shotguns need to be aimed when used.

[ShowMe2]

If you perceive the maximum distances you'll use the HD shotgun is 15 yards are under, then go with a 'spreader-type' of buckshot. If ranges could be further, than go with a 'choker'.

Although aiming a shotgun on the range works well, in a HD situation you'll most likely focus on the threat. This applies to any type of firearm.

If you are fundamentally sound in terms of mounting your shotgun, pointing works well at even short ranges. Naturally, the 'spreader-type' gives you a bit more margin of error.

The next time you go to the range, step off you're normal HD distance, focus on the target, mount your shotgun and simply point. With a bit of practice, you'll be surprised how accurate this technique can be.

Aiming works well in a range environment because that's the best way to shoot a tight group. Unfortunately, that technique falls apart for most people when the target can shoot back.

[mgkdrgn]

I recently patterned some 00 buck loads at home defense distances. Which for me is about 11 steps or 33 feet.

Unless you have a REALLY big house, I'll wager that is the MAX clear distance you could find in your home. The vast vast vast majority of SD shootings are going to be at 11 FEET or less, not 11 steps.

All other things being equal (however, they rarely are), I'd take a shotgun for this every day of the week. I'd also like to get a pattern at those distances, which is going to toss a lot of the things you do for hunting/trap/skeet/sporting clays right out the window.

If I was a reloader (and I am), I'd be real tempted to cut the fingers off the plastic wads I use for my HD loads. Why? I want that shot to start spreading the instant it leaves the barrel. It's only going to travel a few feet, hence a tight pattern isn't going to matter much. And, if I can turn what would be a near miss into a hit, so much the better.

I'd also go for a low power/low recoil load. Why? Because at in-house SD distances you just don't need the power, but you might need to get back on target quick for a followup ... or on to another target. You also don't need your lead visiting the neighbors.

One of the rounds I tested was 2 3/4 Federal Premium LE with the flight control wad.

LE needs more range and a tighter pattern for their scatter gun work, hence your problem with that round.

IMHO, your mileage may vary, no warranty express or implied, void in all 50 states and PR or where void by law.

[Fred Fuller]

Glen,

As Dave said, HD shotgun pattern arguments are one of those Mossberg vs. Remington kinds of arguments- never go away, never get settled :D.

Personally, any buckshot load I'm going to use for HD has to keep all its pellets on a sheet of notebook paper (8.5X11") at 25 yards. If it won't do that, I find something else.

It's gonna be a while before we work through the stash of Federal LE 00 in FliteControl wads here... it patterns about 4" at 25 yards in the old 18" CYL 870 Police barrel that's on the 870 Express behind the bedroom door, and yields comparable patterns from the one in the corner on my wife's side of the room (20" RS barrel choked ImpCyl on that one), plus the one in the other end of the house as well.

I like tight patterns, but with fairly open choked guns I can get whatever i want by just switching ammo. There are a few cases of S&B 00 here too, if I want open patterns. If it ever comes to "to whom it may concern" situations at night or at really short range, we're ready with the S&B. At 25 yards, S&B won't even keep all its pellets on an IPSC cardboard target, and I don't think it matters much what choke you shoot them through.

I'm not here to tell anyone what they should want as far as HD shotgun patterns are concerned. I like 'em tight, other folks want scatterguns. I have no problem with that.

hth,

lpl

[GlenJ]

Thanks Lee I'm also using an 870 Magnum. I got the same results with the S&B 00 also. I also tried Winchester 2 3/4 00 and it spread a little more then the Remington did. I've decided to stick with the Remington for a good compromise.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

The question is whether or not this pattern will penetrate your walls to inrooms or neighbor dwellings.

If its good enough to kill a man, its going to penetrate the walls of any dwelling. This includes all service calibers in handguns, all buckshots, and all rifle calibers. The best thing you can do is accept this, and spend your time training to not miss your target.


I personally believe that a tighter pattern is better than a more open pattern. The longest shot I would have to take indoors is 8 yards, and I know at 10 yards my 870 with a I/C Choke Tube loaded with Federal Vital-Shok 00 buckshot (Pre Flite-Control) will have a pattern that will fit inside of a pie pan. However Murphy's Law says there is a chance I will need a longer shot. I'd much rather just shoot again than having to do a "Select A Slug" drill.

[gp911]

I lean toward tight myself, but if 33 feet is tops, I'd be fine with a spread as well. The tight stuff is good particularly if you may have to defend outdoors as well. A 2" group of buck will pretty well destroy whatever it hits! If you really don't foresee ever needing more than about a 35ft range then you might use the cheaper stuff for more margin of error/shock from multiple holes (though a 2" hole is all the shock anyone needs, I suspect).

My 2 cents...

gp911

[357wheelgunner]

I like tight patterns, but with fairly open choked guns I can get whatever i want by just switching ammo. There are a few cases of S&B 00 here too, if I want open patterns. If it ever comes to "to whom it may concern" situations at night or at really short range, we're ready with the S&B. At 25 yards, S&B won't even keep all its pellets on an IPSC cardboard target, and I don't think it matters much what choke you shoot them through.

I keep a few cases of the S&B load on hand for the same reasons you do.

[Zach S]

The question is whether or not this pattern will penetrate your walls to inrooms or neighbor dwellings.
If it wont penetrate a wall, its useless for defense ammo IMO.

I prefer tight patterns. I used to have a bunch of LE132 and LE133, but have similar results with the H132 I can get locally. Never patterned the H132 at distance, but the LE132 or 133 was pretty tight compared to the S&B I'd used before, IIRC it was normally around 9" at 25 yards out of a cyl bore bbl. I've heard of some folks getting as tight as 5" out of a cyl bore, but I think I'd have to see that....

[Fred Fuller]

Zach,

If you're close to Black Mountain, PM me a POC (point of contact). Next time we visit the in-laws, if you can get us to a range, I'll let you shoot the house gun I usually carry on the road. It has an old 18" Police gun CYL marked barrel, and will put our usual Federal LE load (LE 127-00 w/FliteControl) into 4" or so at 25 yards. You can feel it (recoil, that is) as well as see it :D.

lpl