8 MM Mil ammo


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280shooter
January 11, 2009, 12:32 AM
I want to pull the Bullets and use the powder,
My bullets that i'll be pulling,are 198 gn,
I want to use 150 gr,
how much less powder would I use for the 150 grn?

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depoloni
January 11, 2009, 12:48 AM
Don't do it. PERIOD.

You can't positively identify the powder in the cartridge that you'll be removing and attempting to reuse. You can't identify what difference(s) the old bullet you're pulling will have on pressure compared to the new bullets you're putting in.

If you want to pull the old bullets and reload the cases with lighter ones, so be it. But you had better make sure you use identifiable powder and an appropriate amount based on what type when you reload with different bullets. To do anything else would be completely unsafe, regardless of what you might have been told or heard.

Anyone that suggests pulling the bullets for lighter ones and arbitrarily reusing some, or all, of "whatever" unknown powder is in the cases has either too many stones or too little brains to be trusted. Just to say it up front, hopefully you won't be told otherwise... people try crazy things.

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 01:22 AM
well then I guess i'll pull the bullets and put the powder in a boxer primed case then seat the pulled bullets,I dont want the nasty primers going down my bolt gun barrel.
thanks for seeing me safely through that question

panrobercik
January 11, 2009, 06:07 PM
not sure why would you replace the bullets with lighter ones. The value of those milsurp rounds lays mostly in the bullets you are thinking about replacing, so why not just sell the ammo you have and get new reloading components...
I have experimented with using original bullets and reducing powder with some excellent results.
I don't want to start an argument, but theoretically having certain charge it would be safer to replace the bullet with a lighter one than the other way around.

jjohnson
January 11, 2009, 07:16 PM
I agree you shouldn't pull bullets to play with the powder, particularly if it's milsurp from WWII. The German chemists in WWII did unbelievable things to create ersatz products. For those of you who don't speak German, "ersatz" is what we'd call "fake substitute" things, like coffee made from roasted chicory.

You have no clue what powder is in there, right? :eek:

Do us a favor: Put your Mauser ammo up for sale. If you're going to do this anyway, drop me a note and I'll buy the bullets from you. If you're doing that, please make sure you ship me the bullets before :scrutiny: you go test at the range whatever it is that you plan on concocting. I need those bullets and want them before you have the accident you're planning.

I mean it.

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 09:35 PM
this ammo isnt German, its turkish,I shot it out of my bolt gun,and my FN49
but the primers aren't boxers,and its very corrosive.I have reloading equipment,I do reload for my 8mm bolt gun,I was just not wanting to shoot the cororsive ammo in my bolt gun,My bolt gun is a custom,and i have to much in this to shoot cororsive ammo out of it..thats why I said i'll just pull the bullets and run it in my boxer cases and seat the 198 gr bullets and shoot them in my bolt gun,I did shoot these same cases way back, but thats before I sent this gun to a gun smith,
thanks anyhow for ur help/

panrobercik
January 11, 2009, 10:30 PM
Turkish ammo comes with 150 - something grain bullets. This is pretty hot ammo, some people like it, but I find 198 grain better for German K98 or Yugo Mausers.
Yugo ammo has 198 grain bullets and German WW2 ammo does as well, I think.
In your first post you said you were going to pull 198 grain bullets and replace them with 150's now you're saying , you'd be pulling 150's and replacing them with 198's ... so what is it that you want to do ?

NCsmitty
January 11, 2009, 10:45 PM
Any Turkish ammo that I ran into had the 154gr bullets not 198. Are you sure it's Turkish? Have you weighed the pulled bullets.
The powder is usable but it is quite dirty. I had the same idea to use the powder, but the carbon build up was excessive when I reloaded using new brass and bullets and the Turk powder. I stopped using it.
I've been using Varget in my 8MM.
Make sure you have the right weight bullets.
And good idea not using the corrosive with your new custom rifle.

NCsmitty

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 10:48 PM
8 MM Mil ammo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to pull the Bullets and use the powder,
My bullets that i'll be pulling,are 198 gn,
I want to use 150 gr,
how much less powder would I use for the 150 grn?

I didnt type im going to pull 150 gr bullets. I said as you can read from my first post,,,,,,,,,, my mil cases are 198, pulled and weighed them,,so I do know someting here.
If you need me to i will take a picture of my cases so you can see they arent yugo ammo,maybe you can tell me what they are, if not turk,maybe some other mideasst country,but they surely arent yugo.

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 10:56 PM
http://http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wttyck&s=5http://http://i39.tinypic.com/wttyck.jpg

is this yugo ammo.... I think not//

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 10:59 PM
http://http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wttyck&s=5

http://http://i39.tinypic.com/wttyck.jpg

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 11:06 PM
http://http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wttyck&s=5

http://i39.tinypic.com/wttyck.jpg

panrobercik
January 11, 2009, 11:10 PM
it's not Yugo, how about a headstamp picture...

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 11:30 PM
damn u guys are hard to please LOL.. u know how many trys it took to get that box of ammo to download ok let me try that next,, anit much on the bottom,. but i will try,

http://http://i44.tinypic.com/10z9ru8.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/30cvr7d.jpg

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 11:51 PM
http://http://i41.tinypic.com/1582fsl.jpg

i weighed the powder also. 42 gn

280shooter
January 11, 2009, 11:53 PM
http://http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1582fsl&s=5

http://i41.tinypic.com/1582fsl.jpg

jjohnson
January 12, 2009, 09:03 AM
Well, now.... let's see....

No, it's not Yugo. The markings look like they're Arabic (to me). Not one of my foreign language strong suits.... There were a lot of Mausers used in the Middle East right after WWII, Turks used them for decades, as did Iran and some countries I don't recall.

Persian characters? Turkish? Beats me. I'd still like to lay my hands on some of the milsurp 8mm with the 196-gr bullets. My M98 does great with those, and poorly with the lighter 154-gr 'light infantry' bullets. :banghead:

Afy
January 12, 2009, 09:08 AM
sell the ammo and start from scratch.
Especially if its bedran primed, why bother.
Also with lighter bullets one normally increases the amount of powder.

panrobercik
January 12, 2009, 09:23 AM
I got info from other forum on this ammo.
quote :
It IS Egyptian, and (a ) Very Corrosive (b) usually unreliable as to primers.

But if it works, it works well in Hakims and ET FN49s. Berdan primed,
also:
Says MISR (Egypt) at the top, 57 at the bottom.

fguffey
January 12, 2009, 10:45 AM
280 Shooter, I purchased Turkish and Romanian 8X57, 80 rounds for $4.80, some were 150 + or -, others were 200 grain - a little, all had flake powder, like you I did not want the primers, I formed 30/06 cases using a RCBS trim/form die #15965, 30/06 case length 2.494, 8X57 case length 2.240, that is 25 inches of trimming for 100 cases, that is not much if you are using a hack saw, aircraft counter sink and or a file to finish, it worked.

The shooting range has changed the rules and will not allow FMJ bullets, the Turkish ammo was fast, the 150 grain bullets were running 2900 fps when using the Turkish ammo, I reduced the powder 3 grains on the 150s and 5 grains on the 200s, all of the formed cases were military, FC, LC DEN, UT, no problems, except a few dents and creases, I was told that was not a problem, I was told the dents and creases would 'blow out' this advice was as bad as the wildcat advice on forming cases.

80 cases had 49 grains of powder each, 143 cases contained 1 pound of powder, plus the bullet and 1,400 military 30/06 cases cost me $14.00 dollars and are reloadable, after forming to 8X57, the cases can be used to form 7X57, 257 Roberts, 6.5X257 Roberts, 308 Winchester etc..

I was told the brass would be brittle if it was not already too brittle, with advice from the reloaders that hang out 'in back' I installed the forming die upside down in the press, inserted a case in the shell holder and raised the handle, the case folded like an accordion, prefect circles, brittle brass would collapse and or split, I built a non acceptable method for annealing, so I can not advise you not to do it, I was informed the 'OLD' Mausers had head space issues, I thought forming cases would be a good way to deal with that issue, when forming 8X57 from 30/06 cases, the shoulder is moved back .115, if the person operating the press is in charge they should be able to control shoulder set back (not bumping, bumping sounds like an accident), feeler gage from $4.00 to $11.00 dollars. I do not have an issue with head space on Mausers becausee all of my presses are adjusable, and my presses are not 'springy'.

http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx



clidk on link, scroll to bottom of SR# page and click 'AMMO'.

F. Guffey

fguffey
January 12, 2009, 10:49 AM
'click; the link below, then click all of the links for more infromation.

sorry about that.

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo.aspx

F. Guffey

280shooter
January 12, 2009, 11:36 AM
right it shoot well in my FN49,,and i have that up for sale right now in this forum,if it goes fine if not i'll put it back in my safe,these bullets that i did pull were right around 197 -198, and the powder weighed 42 grs.
I was in the other forum where the guy has some of the turk ammo broke down on how to reduse loads.
I must have bought this ammo 20 years ago if not longer. I was buying ammo from sarco. century, and at least 5 ofthe places, ammo deopt was another.I have no clue if any of then still sell ammo.I bought out one police outfit from cali. i bought all there 357 mag..i still have some of that left. its 125gr, and its hot hot..hugh fire ball when you shoot it.I uses to buy 7.62x 39 by the pallets,i'm down to a few 50 cal ammo boxes of that now.

I have two 50 cal. boxes of the 8 mm, And Like i said Im not shooting that in my bolt gun,so if the FN49 doesnt go. i'll keep in the way it is.and use that,

oscars
March 20, 2012, 10:10 PM
i have about 400 rounds of 196gr 8mm ammo i was thinking of removing the bullets and simply replacing them with a similar weight hunting bullet is this a good idea i am using a k98 german mauser

gamestalker
March 21, 2012, 01:52 AM
I wouldn't mess around with that powder. Just pull the bullets and pirmers and re-use the brass with a published load.

It's even more of an issue since your asking about using a bullet that is significantly heavier. This is especially an issue concerning mil surp as they tend to use powders that were manufacturered and, or, blended for that particular bullet weight. Trying to come up with a working charge for a heavier bullet may be a complete disaster, if the powder application is specific to the lighter bullet, which is very likely to be the case.

And lastly, a really nice rifle like that deserves to be treated with loving care and not used as a test barrel / action.

RentaCop
March 21, 2012, 08:09 AM
What Stalker said.

panrobercik
March 23, 2012, 02:42 PM
Those rounds are most likely Yugo . The cases are Berdan primed so just leave them alone. On top of it the primers are corrosive so not the best thing to take hunting.
Powder in those is a flake type, quite hard to measure so it really is best to shoot them as they are.

280shooter
March 24, 2012, 01:09 AM
I have two dif. companys in the 8mm.. one is steel core.. 196 gr, the other is 198. not steel core..I'm going to pull some bullets. and change powder and bullets to boxer primmer cases for my bolt gun,, and shoot the rest in my FN49..I made a batch of 8mm cases from 30-06 cases,, they were easy enough.The powder in these cases are strange,, big black square flakes.. I shoot these in my FN49 at steel targets out to 200 yards,,But wanted to try the componets in boxer cases out of my custom bolt gun, to see how well they do..thats all...My bolt gun shoot the 150 hornady to 1/2 in groups...at 100 yards,,

oscars
March 24, 2012, 10:38 PM
i would rather not shoot the fmj through my gun as it is hard on the barrel and no good for hunting i guess i was just hoping that replacing the bullet with a 195 gr hornady would work

homatok
March 25, 2012, 03:31 PM
I fail to see why firing FMJ is any more damaging to a barrel than firing any exposed tip jacketed hunting round! The only difference is in the tips of the projectile and that portion of the bullet never contacts the bore.

Steve C
March 26, 2012, 06:44 AM
There is nothing bad about shooting corrosive ammo IF you clean your gun after use. The primer is the "corrosive" element in the ammo. The primer compound produces residue that is Hydroscopic, IE. it attracts water. In a climate with high humidity it will absorb water from the air and that is what causes the corrosion on metal. Black powder is similar in its corrosives action. Google "cleaning after using corrosive ammo" to find several instructional methods of cleaning.

If you want to shoot a soft point for hunting you can simply replace the FMJ bullet with a soft point of the same or less weight without any danger of more pressure. There may be some difficulty in dealing wtiht he military crimp and resizing the case neck but it can be done. Remington bulk 185gr JHP soft points would be a good candicate to replace 198gr military bullets.

If you are wanting to develop a new load using pulled powder of unknown burn rate in a new case and with a boxer primer you are dealing with unknown pressures if you increase the charge over the factory level when using a lighter bullet as well as different cases and primers that will change cartridge pressures, maybe up maybe down.

What we really want to know is if you are simply trying to salvage the powder and will discard the cse and primer or are you trying to use all the components except the bullet?

oscars
March 27, 2012, 10:45 AM
i am simply trying to replace the bullet and use the old cases and powder

fguffey
March 27, 2012, 01:01 PM
Oscars, All the 8mm57 ammo I pulled down had Berdan primers, I wanted to get away from the corrosive primers I stayed with the the bullets and powder, 70 rounds for $4.70 made the effort worth while, but there was that problem with the Hornady bullet puller, had I sent it back for repairs I would have wanted half my money back, they would have had that bullet puller as much as I did.

I do not know which bullet you are referring to, some surplus ammo had cupro nickel bullets, the cupro nickel bullets when checked with a magnet give the appearance of a ferrous metal. they stick to the magnet.

http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf

I still have the pull down cases stored in 30 Cal ammo cans.

At the time the 8mm forming die could be paid for after forming 100 cases, today the 8mm forming die cost $38.00.


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/770975/rcbs-trim-and-form-die-8x57mm-mauser-8mm-mauser-from-30-06-springfield

When changing bullet for bullet by weight alone remember, some load data is bullet specific. When testing lead core bullets I have no problem hitting it with a hammer or dropping it on the floor. Point? I have no problem hitting a bullet supported on a solid surface with a hammer, then testing another bullet in the same manner to have a comparison. Rather than swing the hammer harder, I get a bigger hammer.

F. Guffey

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