[regal]

Friend had a homicide call over the weekend. A 13 year old boy shot his sister in the head with a .25 ACP. When questioned the boy said that he read on the internet that the .25ACP is not a lethal round, he said it is supposed to bounce off the skull according to a forum thread that he read. He just wanted to teach her a lesson for making fun of his new girlfriend.

Condolenses to the family. Its really said that the parents didn't teach this boy about firearms, instead they secretly "hid" the gun. You can't hide anything from a teenager.

[SuperNaut]

Too bad he didn't test the theory on himself first.

[Pulse]

O_o

seriously ...?

say, did they also find a taperecorder with "breath in .... breath out ... brea..."?

[sherman123]

That's the one of the worst excuses for a cold blooded killing I've ever heard. That kid sounds full of it if I had to guess.

[Jim K]

Unfortunately, it probably is not a cold-blooded killing, and he thought just what he says.

A surprising number of people, including gun people, believe that a .22 or a .25 or a .32 will not hurt anyone. In fact, several arguments have taken place right on this site, with statements to the effect that nothing less than 9mm, or .45, or .44 can possibly cause injury. Even the .38 Special has been derided as useless.

This kind of nonsense has to be combatted every time it crops up. ALL FIREARMS ARE DANGEROUS AND DEADLY WEAPONS, and we shouldn't allow the advocates of super power to pretend otherwise.

Jim

[SuperNaut]

BTW I'd sure like a link to the news story.

[FoMoGo]

I was shot with a .25, and damn sure wouldnt step up and ask for another.
However... I still carry a .44 and .45, and wouldnt suggest a .25 to ANYONE :D


Jim

[mr2guru]

This kid obviously didn't learn you can't believe everything you read on the internets....

http://www.stuff.hqubed.com/uploads/Failboat.jpg

[Jim K]

The fact that a small caliber handgun is not the "weapon of choice" for many people does not change the fact that many people own one, and the fact that they can kill a person just as dead as a the biggest bore gun made.

Would I recommend one? NO. Would I tell anyone they are not dangerous or deadly weapons? NO, but people have said exactly that.

Jim

[Rob G]

Too bad he didn't test the theory on himself first.

Really? That's just bad form Supernaut. We should be upset when ignorant kids hurt or kill anyone, even themselves.

My prayers to the family of the victim.

[skeptiq]

Tragic...

So, since this has cropped up... at what age do you tell your children about guns. I have a 6 year old girl and 2 year old boy. I keep my 9mm locked up in my closet on a shelf. This will change when I get my permit. But this is what I do for now.

[FiveFiveSixFan]

Too bad he didn't test the theory on himself first.

If the facts of the case are as presented, I'm quite sure this 13 year old will spend the rest of his life wishing he had tested the theory himself first. Imaging living with the knowledge that you were responsible for your own sister's death. Very tragic.

[svxapeal]

Very tragic story. Although I would NEVER carry a .25...or suggest one, in NO way means I would ever suggest they are not deadly.
As for this...
So, since this has cropped up... at what age do you tell your children about guns.
My son is 11. From the time he could crawl/walk I told him of the dangers of guns while cleaning them. As he got older the talks became more intense/indepth. I started with gun safety before he was 3. I was taking him shooting the .22 by the time he was 5. I guess for me, since guns ARE a part of normalcy around my home it was the same as talking about not touching the stove/outlets/knives around the house unless with an adult. There is no *Ooohh Mommy is away...I gotta find that gun and play with it*. IF he wants to see/handle one of my guns, he comes and gets me and we sit together, checking that it is unloaded, and he safely handles/looks it over and asks his questions. Guns here are second nature because they are as natural in our home as tools.

Caryn

[skeptiq]

Caryn,

Thanks... I will try to figure out a way to bring it up to my daughter and son when the time comes... Thanks for the advice.

Ben

[svxapeal]

I am glad I could help. For me it was easy to bring up. While cleaning I just started going over the basics. This worked really well for me...but stressing the points of safety. Repetition is key IMO. Maybe buy them a toy gun to teach the basics with, if you or your wife are uncomfortable with them handling real firearms?
Good luck to you, knowledge is power and earlier the better.

Caryn

[R.W.Dale]

WOW!

My condolences to the Family


I too have witnessed the downright stupidity posted about smaller calibers on this and other boards. My take on the matter is handgun cartridge choice for many is inexplicably and inversely linked to a certain part of the male anatomy. I need not mention how higher thinking processes involuntarily shut down in most men in any matter involved with such physiology.

The worst offenders are usually associated with a religious cult started in the US that dates back to 1911

[SuperNaut]

Really? That's just bad form Supernaut. We should be upset when ignorant kids hurt or kill anyone, even themselves.

My prayers to the family of the victim.

If he had tested the theory on himself we would be less one idiot and his sister would still be alive. May not be touchy-feely, but it is the truth.

Additionally, I'm not convinced the story is factual, doesn't pass my smell test. I will apologize the second I see a corroborating link.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

cannot come up with any kind of news story like that.

That doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen, except I would also like to see a link to the news story.

Thanks.

[JImbothefiveth]

I think it's obviously a joke.

[walker944]

So, since this has cropped up... at what age do you tell your children about guns.

I have 5 daughters, and every one of them has gone through "Daddy's gun school", which is a session where we all sit on the floor and I show them an assortment of guns and bullets...all the way from shotgun shells, 30.06, .44 magnum, .45 acp, .357 magnum, .38 spl, 9mm, down to the lowly .25 & .22 calibers. I start at the largest and ask, "can this kill someone?" They say "yes", so then I move on down the line. As we get to the smaller rounds, they start to have the questioning look on their faces. I assure them that "yes" each round could indeed kill someone. Finally, we get down to the .25 & .22. I ask the question again. Because the round looks so tiny, they just "know" that there is no way it could hurt anyone. You should see the look on their faces when I look them square in the eye and tell them that, yes this bullet can kill you dead!! Suddenly they have the correct perspective of guns and bullets. Of couse I also show them the guns as well. I also have a "knife school" they have to attend before any of them gets their first pocket knife.

The oldest two are now married. #3 is a senior in college, #4 is in the Army, and #5 is 15 yrs old and still at home. They all talk about "daddy's gun & knife school". It's nice to know the message was heard and taken to heart. We live in the country and have ALWAYS had guns easily accessible and within reach.

If you are going to have guns in your home do not allow them to be a mystery and curiosity. Incidentally all our daughters have shot all the calibers mentioned about, and have a very serious respect for what they can do.

[FoMoGo]

My take on the matter is handgun cartridge choice for many is inexplicably and inversely linked to a certain part of the male anatomy.
Personally, I just like leaving big holes in things.


Jim

[jjohnson]

and he said: I was shot with a .25, and damn sure wouldnt step up and ask for another.
However... I still carry a .44 and .45, and wouldnt suggest a .25 to ANYONE

Amen to that. I was hit with an industrial staple that went clean through the bone on one of my fingers - nonlethal - but I damn sure wouldn't ask for more.:eek: I know even a .25 has more power than a pneumatic stapler...:what:

It is sad, regardless how it happened and why.

[Sato Ord]

As for what age to start? They are never too young to learn to leave the gun alone!

I started my son with the word "no" when it came to firearms at the ripe old age of one. I kept the weapons and ammo separate, and they were locked where he couldn't get them, but he knew not to touch them. As he got older we progressed from there. He has been to the range with me, and he handles a firearm with complete safety. Now if I could just get him to handle his bicycle that safely!

As for stating that I would never trust a .25 as first line defense weapon because it's an underpowered piece of offal, I stand by that. However, I would never make the asinine statement that it is safe, or in any way harmless. One of the biggest kodiak bears on record was shot by an Inuit woman. She brought that huge animal down with one extremely lucky shot from a .22LR. It was a lucky shot for her, but not so lucky from the bear's perspective. Any firearm is dangerous and potentially deadly, and all firearms should be treated with respect even if you don't respect the caliber.

[Beagle-zebub]

Newslink or it didn't happen.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

Quote:
My take on the matter is handgun cartridge choice for many is inexplicably and inversely linked to a certain part of the male anatomy.


For some it may be true, just like for some, the car they drive makes them feel like a man.

With guns, I think there are some people who just happen to like massive recoil -- including myself.

Does that indicate that those who do not like massive recoil are in some way less a man? Not at all. To each his own.

[rondog]

I started my grandson shooting at 11, and the first thing I showed him was the damage that any gun, even a .22 short, can do. Seeing soda cans full of water exploded by a little bitty bullet made an impression. Gallon jugs with a shotgun REALLY made an impression!

[Blind Bat]

Might just be B.S. statistics but I seem to remember reading somewhere that .22's have caused more deaths than any other caliber. I believe RFK was killed with at .22lr revolver.

I personally know someone who committed suicide with a pneumatic nail gun to the head. Last I checked nails weren't know for super penetration or expansion...

P.S. If/When I have kids I'm going to make sure my safe has a lock rated for government level security. Preferably an X0# style that will lock itself out and let me know if anyone has been messing with it. Knowing what I was capable of at 13, I'm not going to trust anything created with my genes.

[FoMoGo]

I am just happy that someone is concerned with the size of my equipment... :D


Jim

[Isher]

All -

Weapons were never "concealed" in the house as I grew up. They were in plain view, in a glass fronted gun cabinet, and used regularly. The long guns were always unloaded; my Dad had a pistol he kept loaded.

I started off with a BB gun at age seven I think. The BB gun - and the accompanying weapons training - treated the gun as equal to anything in the home arsenal. The BB gun lived in the gun cabinet along with the others.

All this goes to a point of order my Dad drilled into me from day one, which is as follows:

"Take care of the livestock first, your gear second, and yourself third."

This may seem counterintuitive at first glance, but there is an important lesson within. I was actually being taught the values of personal responsibility and personal accountability before I ever fired a gun. I knew without being told that guns were dangerous. They killed animals. The big lesson was the responsibility and accountability for "taking care of the livestock first", no matter how tired or wet or distracted you were, which led right in to handling a gun or a knife, whatever.

Anyway, got my first "own" gun, a single shot .22 at age eight, which I still have. My Dad cut several inches off the stock so it would fit me. Years later, I found that cut off piece and reglued it to the stock.

Now that #1 grandson is up and about, and a year old, I am looking forward to cutting that sucker down one more time.

One more note; by the time I was fifteen - we were living in Colorado at the time - I was planning and executing solo fishing/hunting/backpacking trips into the way back country which could run up to a month. The rule there was that I would make a copy of my route map and leave it at home. I had a twenty four hour window to arrive at the pickup point; beyond that, my folks would send out the Federales to find me. Again, personal responsibility and accountability.

Just my .02

isher

[inSight-NEO]

Its crap like this that gives the "anti-gun" crowd more examples of why guns/civilians dont belong together. Its scary how many out there fail to thoroughly educate themselves or their family members (are you listening...parents?) on the weapons kept within the home...regardless of caliber.

Hell, even when I was only 5 years of age I knew better than to point ANY gun at someone, much less pull the trigger. This kind of crap will never cease to severely piss me off. Absolutely a pathetic shame.

[Fishman777]

I can't believe that anyone is that stupid. I think that the kid was pissed off at her and lost it. I think that he later came up with this story to shift the blame to the gun forums. The anti-gun crowd is going to eat this up. I hope that they don't paint this idiot as a sympathetic figure.

[Don357]

As we all know, Any gun, not just a firearm, can be deadly. A couple of years ago, here in the Mobile area, a teenage boy shot and killed his sister with a BB air rifle. He used the statement "It was only a BB gun!" in actual surprise, and was surprised. He has to live with the incident for the rest of his life. I believe parents should begin teaching their children about guns as early as they can understand "no-no"! Even if they don't have one, their friend's might. Just my opinion!

[gbran]

Just saw a story where a fella accidently shot his wife in the back with a pellet rifle. She died. I assume the pellet went between the ribs and into vitals. i don't want to be shot with any projectile regardless of caliber.

[JohnKSa]

Just saw a story where a fella accidently shot his wife in the back with a pellet rifle. She died.Ran into an older fellow some time back and we got to talking airguns & airgun hunting. After awhile he confided that he had once accidentally killed a large dog with an airgun.

He caught it raiding his trash and to scare it off, he fired a pellet at it as it ran away. He didn't even think he'd hit it until it piled up after running a ways down the street.

For whatever it's worth, I don't believe the OP was meant seriously. On the other hand, the problem of kids often not fully understanding the finality of shooting someone is reality. A relative of mine killed his brother many years ago when they were both under 10 years of age--I can't remember the exact ages. During the aftermath, the young shooter kept asking: "When is ____ going to get back up?" He figured his brother would just get back up after awhile like they always did after being shot in the cartoons he watched.

[Carl Levitian]

I can't believe the infantile lack of any sense of responcibiity in todays youth. Looking over the news, there was a story about a 17 year old who plotted to kill his parents for taking away his video game. He stole his fathers key and took a 9mm from the locked box, then shot both of them. The mother died. I think it was in Ohio.

The modern kids addicted to the very violent video games show little abitlity to equate fantacy with real life.

As for this story, I'd like to see a link so I can see it's real. if it is, I doubt it was an accident. The little s--- probably just wanted to shoot someone to see what it was like.

The next generation of little punks coming of age is scary.

[Im283]

The worst offenders are usually associated with a religious cult started in the US that dates back to 1911

dates back a little further than that. I have one that is a 1905, and I am not so sure that is the oldest. Oh yeah, it is a .25acp though, not scary at all.

If you are going to have guns in your home do not allow them to be a mystery and curiosity.

Words to live by. I make my grandson handle my pistols when he is around. basically anymore, he gets bored with it and rolls his eyes at me. It is the reaction I wanted him to have. Of course he asks to go shooting and we do that whenever he cares to. I also believe he fully understand the permanent damage they can do. Canned food, sodas cans and milk jugs really help a little guy learn what a bullet can do. Can't wait til the next one is old enough to get some learnin'.

[KBintheSLC]

This really is a sad story... I can't help but wonder where were the parents in all of this. If I have kids around the house, my guns are locked up... besides my carry gun which is on my person. Maybe if the parents had bothered to educate the kid, he might not have made such a grave mistake.
Sadly, he will have to live with this for a very long time.

[crushbup]

very violent video games show little abitlity to equate fantacy
That problem does not lie with video games. I've said it before here, and I'll say it again: video games do not cause crime, just as guns do not cause crime. The problem lies with the individual, not the object. If a person has difficulty distinguishing between reality and fantasy, that person has some sort of mental disorder that makes them more likely to kill someone, video games or not.

/soapbox

[ojibweindian]

This year was the first year I started taking my son deer hunting. Before then, I'd taken him to the range, taught him the four rules, and let him clean my rifles and handguns. And though I explained the deadly potential of a bullet fired, to him it was really nothing more than an academic pondering. Until, that is, we shot our deer.

First, he was absolutely astonished
at the blood trail (lots of blood and lung; it was a pretty easy job of tracking). Second, after field dressing the deer, I showed him the entry and exit holes; he was surprised that a bullet making a pencil-sized entry wound could make an exit wound the size of a tennis ball (bullet hit the ribs going in and out; a double lung shot that took out both lower lobes).

After he saw the effect of a bullet on a deer, I asked him to imagine what would've happend to a person who was shot like that. Then, I re-inforced the lesson that guns are not a toy and should always be handled with extreme care.

Anyway, to make a long point short, taking a kid hunting is a great way to show just how serious a responsibility it is to own/handle firearms.