California Ban on Wheel-Weights


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Beagle-zebub
January 12, 2009, 04:42 PM
Look at this LA Times story. (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wheels21-2008aug21,1,1502658.story)

Even if this has already been posted, I have a question: are wheel weights actually a threat to the environment? While they certainly might physically fall into the environment, regular lead doesn't leach all that much, and wheel-weights aren't small enough for something to consume. How could this actually contribute significantly to leading in water supplies?

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armoredman
January 12, 2009, 04:55 PM
It contributes to the demise of bullet casting! Wheel weights make great bullets.

ReloaderFred
January 12, 2009, 05:00 PM
The whole lead scare thing started with California. They banned lead wheelweights and lead sinkers quite awhile ago. It's a cancer, and it's spreading...........

Fred

TimRB
January 12, 2009, 05:04 PM
From Wikipedia:

"The main sources of poisoning are from ingestion of lead contaminated soil (this is less of a problem in countries that no longer have leaded gasoline) and from ingestion of lead dust or chips from deteriorating lead-based paints."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

So don't eat dirt, and don't eat lead-based paint. The article points out that lead can also be gotten from drinking water where lead plumbing or fixtures are used.

I don't mean to minimize the danger of heavy-metal poisoning, but I think the arguments against lead (like guns) are largely emotional.

Tim

Beagle-zebub
January 12, 2009, 05:06 PM
Well, if it's BS, let's get some data on it, and stop this trend before we lose a source of cheap lead!

jerkface11
January 12, 2009, 05:15 PM
It's just more nonsense to save that stupid oversized buzzard they care so much about.

TimRB
January 12, 2009, 05:16 PM
Oh, it won't matter how much data you gather. They banned lead ammo in Condor areas without a speck of evidence that it was bullets that was harming the birds.

BTW, for the record, note that this is a voluntary agreement by some auto makers and lead weight producers. It's not actual law yet.

Tim

Beagle-zebub
January 12, 2009, 05:18 PM
If you sit back and let it happen, you assure that it does. At least gather evidence to attack this kind of hysteria as a social phenomenon.


Also, where is all that lead going to go? Will we still have access to it, or will it get sold to places like Mexico?

Chief-7700
January 12, 2009, 05:18 PM
One word THE CONDORS a bird that should have been left alone to run it course into extintion.
Chief

Remo-99
January 12, 2009, 05:22 PM
Lead metal itself isn't nearly as dangerous as it's compounds, like lead-oxides used as paint pigments and such.
Recent issues with lead-oxide paints didn't help the general public's view, about anything Lead related.

ants
January 12, 2009, 05:50 PM
Lead alloy is extremely dangerous at 800 feet per second and faster.

GP100man
January 12, 2009, 06:24 PM
i`ve never seen anything wild chewing on a wheelweight or a boolit laying in a berm , but i have seen em ducking & diving for cover though!!!!

GP100man

tlen
January 12, 2009, 06:59 PM
.....I don't mean to minimize the danger of heavy-metal poisoning, but I think the arguments against lead (like guns) are largely emotional...Tim
In liberal states, such as ********** and the Left coast, facts don't matter when they don't support the main objective. Case in point: Global Warming......

evan price
January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM
Y'all think that these folks really care to not ban wheel weights because it would make casting lead less available? If they could ban your guns they would- don't give them MORE ammo to get lead WW banned! :)

Statistically speaking, the only people with significant risk of lead poisoning are those who work with lead or children who eat paint chips in old houses. We've had lead around us in plumbing solder for centuries. How many cases of lead posioning show up nowadays? It's a feel-good thing for the liberal enviroweenies who would ban anything made with technology above the Stone Age.

Beagle-zebub
January 12, 2009, 07:11 PM
Y'all think that these folks really care to not ban wheel weights because it would make casting lead less available? If they could ban your guns they would- don't give them MORE ammo to get lead WW banned!

Oh, I have no intention about disclosing why I'm interested in keeping lead WWs legal.

armoredman
January 12, 2009, 07:51 PM
Y'all think that these folks really care to not ban wheel weights because it would make casting lead less available? If they could ban your guns they would- don't give them MORE ammo to get lead WW banned!

They don't need any more fake reasons to ban anything, they will do it to save anything but humans. They probably think casting bullets meaning interviewing stars to play ammunition in a new movie.

Vacek
January 12, 2009, 10:01 PM
Lead, like most metals, has a very low KSP (solubility product constant) especially in non-acidic alkaline) conditions. Most western soils have alkaline >7.5 pH due to a lot of free CaCO3 in our soils. In the east they add CaCO3 (lime) to their soils because they tend to become acidic over time.

Anyway, in an alkaline soil the likelihood of lead in any significant amount leaching into the environment is very low. Especially an object as a wheelweight, sinker, or bullet. The actual surface area exposed (to disassociate) is very small vs the mass. As a result, people are as usual making policy without understanding the science.

One wonders about the "problem" of scavengers eating lead on wounded animals or left over bullets after gutting. If that made animals extinct then why didn't all of the USA scavengers not go extinct during the mid-late 19th century when millions of bison carcass were laying around full of 45-60 caliber bullets in them? You would think that all of the coyotes, buzzards, and condors would have long died away due to lead poison???????????

Chief-7700
January 12, 2009, 10:31 PM
Vacek, May I use what you have posted to send to my local newspaper since I live only 10 Condor miles from where the humans are attempting to save this dying bird. Here is one for you during the Basin Complex Fire in Big Sur,CA this summer all the condor chicks were air evaced by a US Coast Guard Helo. Wonder that that ride cost the taxpayers???????
Chief

Vacek
January 12, 2009, 11:56 PM
No problem. Check my grammer and spelling please. I am typing sans the use of my middle finger since I cut it slicing up some beef for jerky.

ants
January 13, 2009, 01:01 AM
Oooh, sorry to hear that Vacek. But, good jerky is worth the sacrifice. Keep it clean and let it breath. I mean the finger, but I guess that's good advice for the meat, too.

[Erase this post after you read it, because it probably won't self-destruct. Elemental copper is just about as toxic as elemental lead in cetain environments. That's why they used copper plating on ship hulls in the 19th century, so barnacles died before they could attach; and that's why they banned copper hulls in the 20th century, because everything else in the bay died too. Of course, that's in a saline marine environment, not a carbonate or sulfate soil. The point is that copper is no better than lead, but both are fairly inert in a dead carcass. But do you notice what they use to replace lead in those condor areas? Yep, solid copper bullets. Biology generally makes sense, but state laws don't. Go figure. Now, erase this post before Arnold reads it. Go on, erase it now.]

ants
January 13, 2009, 01:05 AM
Chief-7700
You do realize that all these laws are for the preservation of legislators, not the preservation of birds.
I'm just saying, a scavenger is a scavenger...
And a scavenger is what a scavenger does...

gwalchmai
January 13, 2009, 10:13 AM
Anyone ever hear of RoHS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive)? Coming to an EPA near you. Start countdown in about seven days.

rfwobbly
January 13, 2009, 01:07 PM
When $75 tires last only 10 miles due to zero availability of balancing weights, there may be a reversal.

ranger335v
January 13, 2009, 01:47 PM
"are wheel weights actually a threat to the environment?"

No. In no way at all, as even most fools would realise.

CA polliticians are even dummer than most fools, so lead (and a LOT of other harmless stuff) terrifies them. Doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Anything they are afraid of gets silly laws enacted so they can feel like they have "done something for the environment."

Other state's fools then follow the CA fool's leadership. It's like, you know, like Valley talk, you know? It's all stupid but stupidity spreads like kudzu.

oneounceload
January 13, 2009, 03:44 PM
California should ban cars, or at least cars that use wheels and tires.......:rolleyes:

I would like to know where this expert got his numbers about 500,000 pounds falling off cars in California - every damn person would be driving around with unbalanced tires

ReloaderFred
January 13, 2009, 04:55 PM
I would like to know where this expert got his numbers about 500,000 pounds falling off cars in California

Isn't it funny how all these groups throw out "statistics", but they're always in round numbers. If they had actual anecdotal figures, it would come out to a real number, like "23.6 pounds actually fell off wheels in LA County".

What it boils down to, they grab numbers out of the air and nobody challenges them to come up with where they got those figures. We need to start questioning these numbers and don't give up until they admit they make them up, and have no actual scientific basis for their claims.

Hope this helps.

Fred

gwalchmai
January 13, 2009, 05:41 PM
Nobody can even guess how many wheel weights fall off. It's not like they're serialized.

Say a wheel weight falls off.

Half the drivers never even notice it. Strike 50%.
Of the ones who do notice it, half of them don't get it replaced where they had it put on before. Strike another 50%.

Of those who go back to the original place, what are the chances that anyone even considers that the old weight fell off? nil. But if they did what would they do - fill out an EPA report documenting the loss of a weight? Right...

Another (of many) considerations that "expert" neglects is the documented scientific fact that 73.46% of all the weights which fall off are scrounged up by the hoards of bullet casters who roam the roadsides and parking lots of our nation in a never-ending struggle to protect us from the scourge of lead exposure.

oneounceload
January 13, 2009, 05:44 PM
since lead is a natural element, maybe they should look at all of those chemicals they use on food sources and golf courses first.....Oh wait, that might upset those folks who play Pebble Beach

Grassman
January 13, 2009, 05:57 PM
Just further proof that this once great land is doomed.

TAB
January 13, 2009, 06:26 PM
Something else to think about... if you were to cast lead for a biz,you would most likly have to put out 100s of thousands just for the all the envro/ safety gear you need.

WardenWolf
January 13, 2009, 06:55 PM
Could be worse. California has yet to ban all sources of lead, but I'm sure they will. They have yet to enact real restrictions specifically aimed at reloaders, but I'm reasonably certain it's coming.

The main things you need to watch for are new "public safety" laws which could be used to heavily restrict where people can reload in order to make it all but impossible for the average citizen, and severe restrictions on the availability of components.

I'm not citing examples, because I don't want to give ideas, but I know what I'd do if I wanted to target reloaders.

Martyk
January 13, 2009, 10:45 PM
Excerp from the LA Times article.....really :eek: "Lead is a highly toxic metal that can cause brain damage and other nervous-system disorders, especially in politicians and tree huggers." :neener:

Lead is what gives water flavor! :p

What about all those Lead Crazed people in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's...hmmmmm

So that means more lead will be available for bullet manufacture and prices will come down :D

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