Confiscation Resolution


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Ron-Bon
January 12, 2009, 11:25 PM
I GOT THE GUN BACK!!!:D

Here is the original post:

Check this one out guys:

This past summer I was at a neighbor's house watching the Spurs play the Hornets during the play-offs. After the Spurs won, I went to my car to retrieve a cigarette. Since my neighbor's wife is not a fan of tobacco, he and I decided to walk down the street while enjoying our cigarettes. We were oblivious to the fact that a sherrif's deputy who resides in our neighborhood had just gotten robbed while riding his bike through the neighborhood and a shoot-out ensued between he and the robber. As fate would have it, we happened to be outside while the police were doing an aggressive search of the area and because we both conceal carry, we were instant suspects. My neighbor carried a .357 and I was carrying my Ruger P345, which happened to be the same caliber of weapon used to commit this crime. After being treated like a hoodlum by Norfolk's Finest, subject to 4 hours of intense questioning(& accusations), and having my hands checked for gunpowder residue, I was finally allowed to go home.

About three days later, the police announced that they had caught the real perp, who happens to look nothing like me(i.e. much taller, and a different freaking race...lol). Anyway, the case is finally going to trial and I get a call from the detectives saying that they need my firearm. Apparently, this suspects lawyer is telling the jury that the initial suspect(me) is the real criminal. The detectives want my gun so that a CSI can compare shell casings from my weapon to those at the scene of the crime.

At first I told the detectives no, but when they mentioned a search warrant and made a few veiled threats, I bit the bullet so to speak.

So far it's been 5 days and I haven't heard from them or my poor Ruger

what do I do?

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Vegaslaith
January 12, 2009, 11:28 PM
So how did it go down? Did they call you say it was ready to be picked up, or did you just bug them?

Prince Yamato
January 13, 2009, 12:49 AM
On the plus side... your gun is now famous! :)

John828
January 13, 2009, 12:50 AM
I well remember your post. I am curious as to how they notified you. Probably certified mail, I would think. Did they call? Enquiring minds want to know.

Seriously, I would like to know your city size and who let you know you could pick it up and any other details.

Grizfire
January 13, 2009, 12:57 AM
took long enough

Kind of Blued
January 13, 2009, 01:05 AM
Creepy... :eek:

ants
January 13, 2009, 01:08 AM
Hey, guys. Back off a little. Give the man some space. He spent the last 6 months just sleeping with his wife. Give him a night to sleep with his gun. Tomorrow morning he'll be ready to tell us the whole story.

Sweet dreams, Ron.

Ron-Bon
January 13, 2009, 01:11 AM
Well after they had the gun for about a week, I called and was told that it was ready to pick up. So the plan was for me to grab it on the way to work but the detective was nowhere to be found when I called him. He ducked my phone calls for a month and a half when finally, the other night, I called at around 1 a.m. and pretended I had a tip for an open robbery case. Boy, did that make him come to the phone in a hurry, and after a promise for more persistence on my part, he told me to come get the gun right then and there.

So I went and got it. Believe it or not, he was very cordial towards me and told me to call him back if I have any problems:rolleyes:. I fieldstripped and cleaned it and everything looks alright, but I'll know for sure when I find time to go to the range.

I missed my gun a lot, but I still think I should trade it in for something else because I'm leery of anything that LEO's in this city have held for so long:scrutiny:

tpaw
January 13, 2009, 01:19 AM
The detectives want my gun so that a CSI can compare shell casings from my weapon to those at the scene of the crime.
At first I told the detectives no, but when they mentioned a search warrant and made a few veiled threats, I bit the bullet so to speak.


Why say no? They are just doing their job, it's protocol. It's a process of elimination, and they wanted to eliminate you. It was probably ordered by the DA in charge of the case. The officers were probably just following orders. Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzz!

John828
January 13, 2009, 01:31 AM
deleted

chinpokojed
January 13, 2009, 01:51 AM
Congratulations on recovering your Ruger, I hope it's in the same shape it was when you gave it the police.

I wouldn't have supplied my gun without a warrant, take it from my limited experience with the police, there's simply no way it could have helped you.

If for some reason they had another unsolved gun crime that miraculously was of the same caliber and similar rifling to your Ruger do you think they'd hesitate to throw you under the bus even though you were initially helping them?

You're also without your gun for some unspecified time period, risk them losing your gun, or it being damaged in their custody.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the police, and would assist them if there was a situation where I deemed it safe to do so, but not here. Especially since they started pulling out the "veiled threats" (as you put it) after the four hours of initial interrogation.

That being said it seems it all worked out, and hopefully the scumbag is rotting in a jail cell from your help!

chris in va
January 13, 2009, 02:01 AM
Guilty until proven innocent.

7.62X25mm
January 13, 2009, 02:07 AM
"Your have the right to remain silent."

"You have the right to an attorney. If you can't afford an attorney, an attorney will be provided to you."

I'm sure you got Mirandized and were provided with counsel, right?

The state cannot just arbitrarily confiscate your property.

Treo
January 13, 2009, 02:21 AM
Never speak to the police W/out a lawyer

Never surrender anything W/out a warrant

Never consent to a search

Rinse, lather, repeat

chinpokojed
January 13, 2009, 02:40 AM
He only would have been Mirandized if he was actually arrested, you weren't ever actually arrested right?

While the state cannot confiscate squat without a warrant, they can lie in the process of the investigation and tell him that he'll be in trouble if he doesn't voluntarily turn it over.

Zundfolge
January 13, 2009, 11:29 AM
The state cannot just arbitrarily confiscate your property.
no, but if you'll read the OP you'll see how the state can bully you into "volunteering" your property.


Anyway, glad you got your Ruger back.

expvideo
January 13, 2009, 11:42 AM
Why say no? They are just doing their job, it's protocol. It's a process of elimination, and they wanted to eliminate you. It was probably ordered by the DA in charge of the case. The officers were probably just following orders. Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzz!
Well I think the pretty obvious answer is because he wouldn't want them holding on to his gun that he carries on a regular basis for an unspecified amount of time. I would have said no too. If they get a warrant, they are welcome to confiscate whatever they want, but I'd rather not voluntarily go unarmed for a month and a half while I wait for the police department to do their investigation. It's not because I would want to impede their investigation or be a pain, it's because they are being a pain to me by taking my gun. If they want it that bad, they can do the leg work and get a warrant. If they don't want to do that, then they're only getting my co-operation on my terms, which means I'll make an appointment to come in and have the gun tested, but they don't get to hold on to it.

It would be a huge inconvenience to me, which is why I would say no. Either they get a warrant, or it's going to be done on my terms, which means they don't get to hold on to my gun for an undetermined amount of time. I don't see what is unreasonable about that, and if I was a detective wanting to get the gun for evidence I would not be making threats or trying to intimidate an innocent person into co-operating, when I could either be nice about it or get a warrant. Maybe I'm just stubborn, but twisting my arm doesn't get you what you want. Either do the paperwork or be pleasant enough that I feel like helping you. Threatening me and trying to intimidate me is a rude way to get what you want and it's not going to go down that way.

If the police were respectful and polite, as I would be in their situation, then I might be more likely to want to help out.

tpaw
January 13, 2009, 02:23 PM
Well I think the pretty obvious answer is because he wouldn't want them holding on to his gun that he carries on a regular basis for an unspecified amount of time. I would have said no too. If they get a warrant, they are welcome to confiscate whatever they want, but I'd rather not voluntarily go unarmed for a month and a half while I wait for the police department to do their investigation.

More than likely they would get the warrant and you would be without the gun anyway. Why prolong the issue. As for testing it while you wait, I do not think that's procedure. Also, when renewing your permit in the future, they may put you on the back burner by misplacing your papers for a while. I know it's not right, but it's been known to happen. Don't think for one minute that your name does not go into their special directory of names as one who did not cooperate.

Guns and more
January 13, 2009, 02:28 PM
Why say no? They are just doing their job, it's protocol. It's a process of elimination, and they wanted to eliminate you. It was probably ordered by the DA in charge of the case. The officers were probably just following orders. Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzz!
If I read correctly, they kept it for a month and a half, ignored his calls, and he had to lie to them to get it back. Luckily it wasn't lost, misplaced(?), damaged, or destroyed. Then they would have said, "Too bad."
Seems to me they had no intention of giving it back.
Nope, bring your warrant.

More than likely they would get the warrant and you would be without the gun anyway. Why prolong the issue. Also, when renewing your permit in the future, they may put you on the back burner by temporailly misplacing your papers. I know it's not right, but it's been known to happen. Don't think for one minute that your name does not go into their special directory of names.
Wow, doesn't anyone trust the police?

expvideo
January 13, 2009, 02:36 PM
More than likely they would get the warrant and you would be without the gun anyway. Why prolong the issue. As for testing it while you wait, I do not think that's procedure. Also, when renewing your permit in the future, they may put you on the back burner by misplacing your papers for a while. I know it's not right, but it's been known to happen. Don't think for one minute that your name does not go into their special directory of names as one who did not cooperate.
Put the tin foil away for just a minute... Now... If I'm going to deal with the pain of going without my gun for a month and a half, the detective is going to have to do one of two things:

a. Get a warrant
b. Be respectful and polite in asking for my help

Threatening and being a jerk about it is not going to make me want to be any more helpful. If I'm going through a headache over this, he's going to have to do the same and get a warrant. I don't feel sorry for holier-than-thou cops that treat co-operative citizens like criminals. If you want to throw that attitude around, that's fine. But don't expect me to bend over backwards to do you any favors.

Treo
January 13, 2009, 05:20 PM
Put the tin foil away for just a minute.

It's not tinfoil bud, IIRC Tpaw is a cop. So that's one of their own telling you "waive your rights because we're going to violate them anyway if you don't "

cassandrasdaddy
January 13, 2009, 06:55 PM
so to recap the op let em test his gun likely hold it for trial and as a result the put some dirtbag away. hes recovered his gun in so far as we know good shape. whats all the whimpering/bombast about again?

ohgrady
January 13, 2009, 07:23 PM
What would be the grounds for a search warrant? A search warrant is about recovering/obtaining/protecting evidence. In this case, your gun is not evidence. The prosecutor wanted to test your gun to stop the defense attorney from pointing the finger at you. The "we'll get a warrant" line is a bullying tactic to scare you-they know people don't want cops searching their homes. Search warrants don't say, "we have probable cause to believe that when we obtain this gun, testing of it will prove that the person we first detained, who was innocent by the way, had absolutely nothing to do with the case we are investigating." If you would have told them that you handed your firearm over to your attorney, with instructions to hold it absent a court order or warrant, I bet you would not have heard from them again.

Jdude
January 13, 2009, 07:24 PM
I am eager to hear the range report. Let us know how it shoots. Congrats! :D

expvideo
January 13, 2009, 07:25 PM
It's not tinfoil bud, IIRC Tpaw is a cop. So that's one of their own telling you "waive your rights because we're going to violate them anyway if you don't "
One bad cop does not represent all cops. I've met a lot of cops who are very polite and don't have an us vs. them attitude. I've met a lot of cops who don't have personal vendettas against uncooperative citizens too.

TexasRifleman
January 13, 2009, 07:34 PM
More than likely they would get the warrant and you would be without the gun anyway. Why prolong the issue.

mumble mumble LAW mumble mumble CONSTITUTION mumble mumble RIGHTS mumble mumble TRAMPLING....

You get the picture.

lacoochee
January 13, 2009, 07:40 PM
Sell it. Make sure to sell it through an FFL. Maybe a little paranoid but better safe than sorry.

subknave
January 13, 2009, 08:18 PM
I am curious, if you and your friend were walking down the street and were carrying concealed how did they get your gun in the first place and drag you in for questioning?

expvideo
January 13, 2009, 08:23 PM
I am curious, if you and your friend were walking down the street and were carrying concealed how did they get your gun in the first place and drag you in for questioning?

Irrelevant. The case is closed and the guy is convicted. The OP didn't do anything wrong, so let's not question his actions.

Sergeant Sabre
January 14, 2009, 07:27 AM
Believe it or not, he was very cordial towards me and told me to call him back if I have any problems

Cordial toward you? No way! A police officer nice to a mere serf!?!?!?

Wow, people. The way some of you think of the police leaves me dumbfounded. You are as far from reality as the Brady bunch

expvideo
January 14, 2009, 09:14 AM
Cordial toward you? No way! A police officer nice to a mere serf!?!?!?

Wow, people. The way some of you think of the police leaves me dumbfounded. You are as far from reality as the Brady bunch
It helps to read the thread. In the first post, the OP said:

At first I told the detectives no, but when they mentioned a search warrant and made a few veiled threats, I bit the bullet so to speak.


The cop wasn't polite to him until a month and a half later after dodging his phone calls and the OP having to make up a story to get through. He was originally, how do I put this, "The way some of you think of the police".

tpaw
January 14, 2009, 11:45 AM
Treo writes:

It's not tinfoil bud, IIRC Tpaw is a cop. So that's one of their own telling you "waive your rights because we're going to violate them anyway if you don't "

False information Treo, I am not a cop.

turbojohn41
January 14, 2009, 11:57 AM
tpaw they were just doing thier job in New Orleans also. right!

cassandrasdaddy
January 14, 2009, 12:02 PM
"You are as far from reality as the Brady bunch"
qft

Ron-Bon
January 14, 2009, 02:43 PM
@ SUBKNAVE: Read the original post and you will understand how they got my gun

@ Seargant Sabre: It's not that I mistrust the police, but they are humans and capable of making mistakes just like civillians. Nothing is inherent in a police officer that automatically makes them perfect. If you would have read the original post before commenting, you might understand why I am wary of these particular officers (not all officers)

@ lacoochee: I'm thinking along those same lines buddy

@ expvideo: +1 brother, you are one of the few who have read the original post in its entirety, making you able to understand my point of view. thankyou for your support

tpaw
January 14, 2009, 05:32 PM
turbojohn41 asks:

tpaw they were just doing thier job in New Orleans also. right

Not having been there to know all the facts, I cannot comment.

cassandrasdaddy
January 14, 2009, 05:39 PM
turbo saw it all from wisconsin

tpaw
January 14, 2009, 05:52 PM
turbo saw it all from wisconsin

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

subknave
January 14, 2009, 07:59 PM
I read the original post as: you were walking down the street smoking a cigarette. Your handgun was concealed (not visible) so how did it happen that they found out you were armed and confiscate your gun etc. I would have thought they had little probable cause especially as the perpetrator obviously looked nothing like you. I live in Portsmouth by the way and often carry concealed so the behavior of the local police concerns me.

748
January 15, 2009, 10:12 PM
Makes me sick that happened here.
I would have told them I sold the gun. Because I would have.

wyocarp
January 15, 2009, 10:20 PM
I say make them do it legal like, show me the warrant. It's not being stubborn, it's making them follow the right legal steps. I know that they don't like to be put out but tuff.

Dominus
January 15, 2009, 10:31 PM
Glad to hear you got your gun back.

Since they didn't do you any favors and made no effort to return your property back, it make me wonder why? (rhetorical)

Personally I would let it go and purchase a new pistol and maybe even in a new caliber.
Paranoid, maybe but no real harm in CYA.

Best of luck moving forward.

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