Virginia panel won't recommend closing 'gun-show loophole'


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Ron-Bon
January 13, 2009, 02:28 PM
By Dave Forster
The Virginian-Pilot
January 13, 2009
RICHMOND

A proposal to recommend closing the so-called gun show loophole failed to pass a vote today by the Virginia State Crime Commission.

The vote by the commission, an advisory body for the General Assembly, ended in a tie.

The commission quickly turned to discuss a proposal to staff each gun show with a state trooper - who would watch for unlicensed dealers and provide voluntary checks - and to fund the service with a fee on the gun show's promoter.

That recommendation passed 7-5.

Virginia is one of 35 states that do not require criminal and mental-health background checks for gun purchases at shows, though dealers can do it voluntarily. Federally licensed dealers must conduct checks for sales at their stores.

The commission drew a nearly full crowd, about a hundred people, with many on both sides of the debate.

About 20 students from Longwood University in Farmville watched the meeting from the third and fourth rows, dressed in black with streamers around their necks in the colors of Virginia Tech. The group, which included family and friends of some of the victims of the April 16, 2007, shooting, planned to demonstrate in support of mandatory background checks by lying down outside after the meeting.

The Virginia Tech shooter, who killed 32 people before he killed himself, did not buy his firearms from a gun show.

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mgkdrgn
January 13, 2009, 04:01 PM
Ya cain't close what ain't thar to begin with.

Funderb
January 13, 2009, 04:07 PM
Closing the "loophole" would require huge revisions of state laws that would indeed violate rights other than the 2A.

usmarine0352_2005
January 13, 2009, 04:26 PM
Closing the "loophole" would require huge revisions of state laws that would indeed violate rights other than the 2A.


What state laws?


.

Funderb
January 13, 2009, 05:56 PM
the state laws that say you are allowed to sell personal belongings.
Unless you live in a state where you are not allowed to sell personal items, I assume you have laws that don't forbid it.

After all, if you can sell a car, why can't you sell a rifle?

Titan6
January 13, 2009, 06:37 PM
About 20 students from Longwood University in Farmville watched the meeting from the third and fourth rows, dressed in black with streamers around their necks in the colors of Virginia Tech. The group, which included family and friends of some of the victims of the April 16, 2007, shooting, planned to demonstrate in support of mandatory background checks by lying down outside after the meeting.

See and just the other day I was complaining about how kids today don't get involved. And here they are waving the bloody shirt Civil War Reconstruction Era style in the New South about a completely unrelated issue to their cause.

rino451
January 13, 2009, 06:51 PM
It'd take changing the law to create a loophole that that change would then close.

:barf:

KBintheSLC
January 13, 2009, 07:01 PM
About 20 students from Longwood University in Farmville watched the meeting from the third and fourth rows, dressed in black with streamers around their necks in the colors of Virginia Tech. The group, which included family and friends of some of the victims of the April 16, 2007, shooting, planned to demonstrate in support of mandatory background checks by lying down outside after the meeting.

Gee... I thought that shooter had a squeaky clean criminal record. So much for the loophole in the so-called "loophole". I guess the next thing to do is ban sales to people based on what you think they might do.

chris in va
January 13, 2009, 07:06 PM
The Virginia Tech shooter, who killed 32 people before he killed himself, did not buy his firearms from a gun show

I like that last effort to set things straight.

ServiceSoon
January 13, 2009, 08:15 PM
Virginia is one of 35 states that do not require criminal and mental-health background checks for gun purchases at shows, though dealers can do it voluntarily. Federally licensed dealers must conduct checks for sales at their stores.Aren't dealers required by law to perform background checks at gun shows?

Bill_Rights
January 14, 2009, 08:28 AM
Every year the namby-pamby groups in Virginia introduce bills in the VA legislature to restrict guns in one way or another. As usual, one of the bills they will enter tries to restrict private citizens from selling their personal property to other private citizens at gun shows. Since the Virginia Tech "massacre", it has been worse, even though the VaTech wacko, Cho, purchased at least one of his two guns, a Glock 19, legally with background check at a public dealer, an FFA gun shop. So, as usual, the anti-gun folks are liars and emotion-manipulators. Or worse, some of them will claim that even the background checks don't work, so get rid of guns altogether. And as usual, us Virginia good-guy gun owners have to mount a campaign to flood our legislature with letters, E-mails and petitions to defeat the anti's bills.

Since THR is a national/international forum, here's how the Assoc. Press reported the Va Crime Commission hearing:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/14/panel-deadlocks-over-closing-gun-show-loophole/

One of the many dangers of closing the gun show "loophole" is that it would really try to make any private sale of private property (if guns) illegal anywhere, even in your living room or hunt club. The "gun show" name is just convenient propaganda/cover for the anti-gun folks.

Philosophically, what does "private property" mean if the "owner" can't dispose of it as he/she wishes? Pretty much nothing, no meaning. The issue is much bigger than guns....

748
January 14, 2009, 05:45 PM
I am sorry but if I were there and saw those students laying down like they were dead VT victims I wouldn't be able to help my self. I would have to ROFL and remind them how stupid they look. Its clear they gave no consideration to family members of those killed.
I guess no one told them cho didnt get his guns at a gun show.

Titan6
January 14, 2009, 07:39 PM
Students really don't mind being manipulated as long as they can feel like they are a part of something. Examine the Berkley Free Speech movement for a good example.

novaDAK
January 14, 2009, 09:51 PM
Virginia is one of 35 states that do not require criminal and mental-health background checks for gun purchases at shows, though dealers can do it voluntarily. Federally licensed dealers must conduct checks for sales at their stores.

Aren't dealers required by law to perform background checks at gun shows?
Yes. FFLs are required to do background checks on all buyers, no matter where they do their business, whether it be in their gun shop or a gun show.

The article both poorly words and intentionally misleads the reader by using the term "unlicensed dealers" (there's no such thing) and saying that licensed dealers can voluntarily do checks at shows (making it seem like they don't have to, which they are required to do by federal law).

The Virginian-Pilot is known for being anti-gun so this article is no surprise.

NavyGuy
January 14, 2009, 10:00 PM
My signature says it all

ServiceSoon
January 15, 2009, 12:55 PM
Yes. FFLs are required to do background checks on all buyers, no matter where they do their business, whether it be in their gun shop or a gun show.

The article both poorly words and intentionally misleads the reader by using the term "unlicensed dealers" (there's no such thing) and saying that licensed dealers can voluntarily do checks at shows (making it seem like they don't have to, which they are required to do by federal law).

The Virginian-Pilot is known for being anti-gun so this article is no surprise.Then it isn't "misleading," it is a blatant lie.

.cheese.
January 15, 2009, 01:05 PM
I am so sick and tired of hearing about the gun show loophole. When will this die? I think this will die around the same time rumors of alien autopsies at Roswell die.

Titan6
January 15, 2009, 01:30 PM
The article both poorly words and intentionally misleads the reader by using the term "unlicensed dealers" (there's no such thing) and saying that licensed dealers can voluntarily do checks at shows (making it seem like they don't have to, which they are required to do by federal law).

Well this is not entirely true.

There are "unlicensed dealers" although they are not allowed at gun shows. It is just like saying there are not "unlicensed drivers".

Also in Virginia a dealer can sell a "personal, private collection" weapon at a gun show without a background check. Not all gun shows allow this but most do and the law does not prohibit someone from doing it. If the dealer wants he can run a background check but does not have to.

From time to time member of the media will run and buy one just to show how easy it is. The dealer often has these "private collection" pieces available for the same or higher price than a new gun of the same make on the same table.

There are parking lot deals, and deals before you get to the parking lot.

The problem is the entire legislation is a lie. It is nothing to do with gun shows, crime or safety and a lot to do with denying people of their rights and property.

Caeser2001
January 17, 2009, 12:00 PM
if ftf transfers are illegal then there's nobody to blame but themselves for crime and the revolving door of the criminal justice system.

Caeser2001
January 17, 2009, 12:01 PM
and that's not good when it comes time for reelection.

ServiceSoon
January 17, 2009, 09:49 PM
if ftf transfers are illegal then there's nobody to blame but themselves for crime and the revolving door of the criminal justice system.In a logical world you are correct. Unfortunately we don't live in this type of world.

Bill_Rights
January 18, 2009, 02:32 AM
on 15 Jan '09 on # 18 of this thread, .cheese. said:

"I am so sick and tired of hearing about the gun show loophole. When will this die? I think this will die around the same time rumors of alien autopsies at Roswell die."

Please, PLEASE don't get so tired that you go silent. If it's not the "loophole" it's something else. The anti-gun people must be resisted in YOUR state legislature, the US House/Senate, courts at all levels and even town/city/county governments. Apparently, these anti-gun folks will keep up their attacks long after the rumors of alien autopsies at Roswell die. At least we have to have the attitude that that is how long we'll defend our RKBA. But you know that.

Wish it were otherwise......

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