[Gordon]

Ok guys : suppose you have an older gun(like a 5.9 lb Model 31L rem 20ga) that has a full choke and you don't wanta ruin its appearence. what is (who does) the surefire, no mistake(pattern is still centered) way to get the choke loosened up for say quail at 20-30-yards?:)

[Preacherman]

I'd send the barrel to Briley, explaining what you want to do. They can either widen the existing (fixed) choke with an expander plug, or they can install screw-in chokes for you, which gives even more versatility. I certainly wouldn't trust it to a local jack-of-all-trades gunsmith - such folks can do great work, but this is a specialist job that needs a specialist outfit like Briley, IMHO.

[RussB]

I highly recommend R&D Custom Barrel Service...

Bob Day
8423 Terradell St
Pico Rivera, Ca. 90660
(562) 923-3608



Bob Day's web site (http://www.americhoke.com)

[sm]

Easiest and cheapest and I assure you it will NOT change appearance...buy the inexpensive dove and quail load. These have less antimony, which means softer shot...open that pattern right up. Your target loads for skeet, trap, SC, and pigeon loads have "hard shot" because of higher antimony content.

Before choke tubes, and before folks went to using "Poly-Chokes"...we changed loads in our fixed chokes. Quail... on a fixed full 870 , first shot I used #8 dove/quail load, same for 2nd shot , the 3rd was 2 3/4 dr, 1 1/8 oz of hard #8 ( skeet load) just in case I needed a little authority. ;)

At one time someone ( I forget) made square shot, seriously, whoa, make a full throw a cyl pattern. Mentioned in Brister's Book.

Quail , I find I have to "wait" and give a bit of range, I tend to get on 'em too quick...spoils meat and the dogs get ticked if the bird is 'right there".

[Dave McCracken]

Back in the days when we all had long barreled, tightly choked repeaters, the accepted way of getting more spread was to use cheap loads like those cited by re1973, a gent of mature years and good memory.

Sending the thing to Briley for chokes will also work, but expensive.

A suggestion. Start reloading and work up a 7/8 oz,1275-1300 FPS load of 8s or 8 1/2 shot with little antimony for more spread. You can tweak in a load for just THAT shotgun that will be of safe pressure and better spread.

For more spread, use smaller shot, softer shot, and speed it up. Reverse for tighter.

You can pick up a MEC,manual,scale and components for about what it'll cost you to send that barrel to Texas for Briley to work their magic.And,further savings from making cheaper ammo will mean you can shoot more, thus aiding proficiency and increasing fun.

And cherish that 31L 20. That model was late gun writer Don Zutz's favorite, and for good reason.

HTH...

[45auto]

It's good advice to try some "spreader" loads first and/or let the quail fly a bit longer. ;)

If that doesn't work for you, make sure you use someone that alters chokes or choke tubes full time and has a good reputation.

[Gordon]

Thanks, especially for the address in Kali, and remimding me about spread loads. I don't reload shot shells, just never did but if I start in retirement in a couple years I'll get a MEC or a Ponsess-Warren! I get invited a couple times a year to shoot Quail on a snooty ranch where they use 20,28 and yes .410. Most of my guns are 12 guage, I wanted a LT-20 1100 or equivalent but didn't want to buy another gun , or spend for a collectors item. The deal for the LT20 fell thru.The Rem 31L20 ga is classy(a deluxe model with a solid rib and checkering) I don't mind the 28" barrel but the blessed thing shoots like a rifle, even with Quail loads. I can't find the "spreader loads" with the X card board in 20 OR 12 anymore:( So I will look to haveing the choke loosened a couple 'points' to a Imp. Cyl . Just wanted a local expert. Thanks again!:)

[sm]

Thinking out loud...lengthening of Forcing cone might be money better spent than having choke opened.

Dave, others, thoughts ?

[kotengu]

Who is "Briley" and do you have contact info? Why is he "the best"?

[Gordon]

R&D Custom Barrel Service was just what I was looking for! He centers pattern as he opens choke. Seems like I want imp. cyl AND a long forcing cone. It should be $110 IF there is nothing weird wrong wiith my barrel.:) I think Briley specializes in INSTALLing his excellent choke system-not what I want on this vintage gun!

[TrapperReady]

Has anyone tried using any of the custom spreader components when reloading? One of the places I shoot sporting clays also does a brisk business in reloading supplies, and they offer little cross-shaped dividers which push into the shot column. If they work as advertised, they are supposed to cause the shot to spread out more quickly.

I've not messed with them, but something like that could be interesting. Also, I was just talkng with a friend about reloading yesterday. He picked up a book from Ballistic Products called "High Performance for Clays", which lists a lot of different loads which can be used for different target or game presentations. I've not reviewed it yet, but it sounds interesting.

[Dave McCracken]

Kotengo, Jess Briley had done outstanding barrel work like Stan Baker. I believe Jess has also passed away. The company he founded has a great rep for shotgun work, especially chokes and barrels.

Re "Spreader" loads....

Most of these use some kind of interruptor in the shot charge to give faster spread. Some of these were commercially marketed and called "Brush" loads or spreaders.

The interruptor oft is a post or an insert shaped like an X in cross section to create space in the center of the charge and cause the spread from air resistance.

I've experimented with some homemades after a recipe by Lenard Lemke, a ballistician and innovator. The pattern did open by maybe 4" at 20 yards. but they were a hassle to make.

A longer forcing cone, a mod I like, would appear to tighten up the patterns a bit rather than loosen them.

$110 for a cone job and rechoke is a fair price. Bet that 31L makes one great quail gun.Enjoy!

[sm]

I played with some of the components to make brush loads, pain in rear, and not impressed with results. I had better luck when I found some square shot ( and no I can't remember whom). I did find some really lousy lead shot in #8 once, not much antimony ( if any) that opened right up.

Dave, I realize the lengthening of FC helps with recoil, and "softens" the blow to shot, therefore keeping shot more true and improving patterns ( less deformity),...but...

Didn't Stan Baker come up with "over-lengthening" a bit to "open up". I think he did this in conjunction with and without the "jug " choke on a fixed bbl, like the Russians used to win the Olympics. Or am I just totally confused? Stan Baker contributed a lot, I believe he did some work for Brister also...

[Dave McCracken]

Baker did work for Brister, including choke work and backboring. I don't recall anything about his skeet work, though. Getting scatterguns to scatter is easier than the reverse.

The Russian, or "Tula" choke had a recess machined into the barrel behind the muzzle and then the muzzle was smaller diameter than the bore. The disrupting of the smooth flow of the shot gave great close patterns.Stank beyond 25 yards, though.

[Cooter Brown]

is the Polywad shells. They work very well and are high quality.Available at Cabelas, Gander Mountain, Mack's, etc. in-store or on-line, I think. I always bought mine at Cabela's store. If not, try www.polywad.com

I wouldn't alter the gun, IMHO. Get ANOTHER one!!!:D