Whats the deal with these hazmat charges?


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ljnowell
January 15, 2009, 02:41 PM
OK, so here it goes, if you go to midway and select a pound of any kind of powder and a pack of primers, it shows two hazmat fees. As the claim of you cant ship both in the same package. OK, I can live with that. If you go to graf and sons and do the exact same thing, the website only shows 1 hazmat charge? So, why is that, anyone know exactly? I have found other places that do the same thing.

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Daniel1120
January 15, 2009, 02:58 PM
Show them how much you like that double hazmat charge by writing them an email and buying from somewhere else. Its their policy, not law. Not to mention midway can be a little pricey on components.

TimRB
January 15, 2009, 03:00 PM
Midway has two hazmat fees when you buy powder and primers because one of them (I forget which) is drop-shipped from a distributor, so there are two separate shipments.

Tim

ReloaderFred
January 15, 2009, 03:20 PM
TimRB is correct. When you order powder from Midway, it comes from the distributor or manufacturer, not from Midway. They evidently don't stock the powder they advertise, but do stock the primers, so the shipments are coming from two different locations.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ljnowell
January 15, 2009, 03:25 PM
That explains a lot. I wasnt actually planning on ordering from them. I was talking with my brother today who told me that it was illegal to ship powder and primers together so no matter what everyone had to charge two hazmat fees. I called him BS on it. So he goes to midways website (he's the kind of guy that cant be wrong) and tells me "see look its right here". I went to graf and sons and a few other places I know and proved that they didnt. He insisted they were breaking the law doing so.

vetts1911
January 15, 2009, 03:33 PM
Midway is not a bad company but, they are hurting the company with the shipping. Not just to look at Hazmat charges but, if you order and have a back order behind that you get charged twice to ship. Brownells and most companies I deal with don't do this. I wrote an email to Midway and they said they would look in to it. I use them as a last resort but, they do give back to our sport so, lets give them credit for that.

Powder Valley is not bad for being able to get what you need and with fair shipping and combine the hazmat charge.

SSN Vet
January 15, 2009, 03:36 PM
at the rate I consume...

all powder and primers are purchased locally. And the prices aren't really even that much higher.

and now I've got the new Cabellas and KTP to chose from.

Life is good!

AMBASSADOR
January 15, 2009, 03:55 PM
I received a delivery of powder,primers and bullets from Midway and only paid one hazmat charge.Everything came in one box,no backorders,fast shipping,I'll order from them again.I don't see that thier prices are any more expensive than other suppliers,and I have during the past year dealt with just about all the popular suppliers.

eg:MIDWAY
NATCHEZ
GRAFF&SONS
MIDSOUTH
ABLE AMMO

The Bushmaster
January 15, 2009, 04:14 PM
I buy my powder and primers locally. Everything else from Midway...

ants
January 15, 2009, 05:53 PM
Just for clarification, the law does NOT require a hazmat fee.

The law requires certain licenses and documentation if the freight is hazardous. So the carriers and shippers are charging the fee to cover their license and paperwork costs, but the law does not charge a fee nor require the shipper/carrier to charge the fee.

ljnowell
January 15, 2009, 06:13 PM
Just for clarification, the law does NOT require a hazmat fee.

The law requires certain licenses and documentation if the freight is hazardous. So the carriers and shippers are charging the fee to cover their license and paperwork costs, but the law does not charge a fee nor require the shipper/carrier to charge the fee.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna have to call my brother back and tell him he's wrong. That'll be a good argument.

Bronson7
January 15, 2009, 06:27 PM
But loaded ammo gets no such fee. Go figure.:confused:
Bronson7

the_right_reverend
January 15, 2009, 06:44 PM
just a little plug for Larry @ Midway (we're old friends) and I have used him since the little shack next to the road in the sticks (early 80's) and very hard to find....

MidwayUSA is no longer in the sticks and in a Major industrial area according to the City of Columbia, Mo and to close to City roads Interstate 70 so by law they can not store powder in the amount they sell.... so they have it dropped shipped......so the separate hazmat fee's are due to some silly city ordinance


Were as Graf and Son just 20 to 30 min down 70 in Mexico is still in the sticks but easy to find and does not have to deal with big city politics and can store Powder on site so they can combine orders

oneounceload
January 15, 2009, 06:49 PM
IIRC, when UPS started the hazmat fee, it was only $10.....Now it's $20.....

They used to not allow powder and primers together - now they do

ljnowell
January 15, 2009, 07:46 PM
I was told the hazmat fee went up to 22.50 Jan 1.

RustyFN
January 15, 2009, 09:21 PM
Yes Midway ships the primers and has the powder drop shipped from Powder Valley, that's why the two hazmat fees. The best prices on powder and primers I have seen are at Powder Valley or Graf's. I buy from Graf's because I get a dealer discount with a C&R license. If they are out of stock then I go to PV.
Rusty

yooper_sjd
January 15, 2009, 09:40 PM
:banghead: basically boils down to the hazardious material groups. both powder and primers are a 1.4 hazard class. key powder is bulk, primer are they intiator! think of shipping dynomite with with blasting, same theory. But when assembled inside of cartridge it is contained. thus one primer only sets off so many grains of powder in the crtg, vise one primer setting off 1 or 8 lbs. basically a bomb! EODGuy, if I am wrong, please straighten me out!

Once again this falls under the Code of Federal Regulations 49 for the safe shipping and transportation of Hazardous Materials by air sea and land that is Governed by the Deptartment of Transportation. Hope that helps

here is the basic scoop on the shipping:

DOT HAZMAT Shipping

The US Department of Transportation (DOT) requires training for anyone who handles hazardous materials including individuals who ship or receive hazardous materials, prepare hazardous materials for transportation, mark and label containers, complete shipping documents, select packaging and load or unload hazardous materials. This course is designed to meet the training requirements as specified in 49 CFR 172. 700 Subpart H, which specify that employees must be trained at least once every three years. Each student will be supplied with a student manual and a copy of the most current DOT Emergency Response Guide (ERG).

The DOT HAZMAT Shipping course covers the following topics:

An Introduction to the DOT Shipping Regulations
Training Requirements and Definitions
The Hazardous Materials Table
Hazardous Substances and Marine Pollutants
Shipping Papers and Documentation
Labels and Markings
Packaging Requirements
Placard Requirements
Shipping by Road
Shipping by Air
Shipping by Rail (upon request)
Shipping by Vessel (upon request)
And:
Safe Shipping of HAZMAT Security Awareness

This course includes testing of participants as required in 49 CFR 172. 702. Upon completion of this course, the participants will have an understanding of how to:

1. Locate and use the Federal hazardous materials regulations

2. Properly label and mark hazardous materials containers for shipment

3. Complete Bill of Lading for hazardous materials

4. Select proper packaging for hazardous materials

5. Understand the vehicle placarding requirements and

6. Develop appropriate emergency response information to accompany shipments.


Hope this helps :banghead:

scott

RustyFN
January 16, 2009, 12:01 AM
Yooper I kind of got lost, it's late and I'm tired. Grafs and PV will ship powder and primers together for one $20 hazmat fee no problem, up to a 48 pound order. Midway doesn't stock powder, that is where their problem comes in.
Rusty

massmatt
January 16, 2009, 12:09 AM
These companies have to charge these fees. There is no room to absorb them. I buy all my powder and primers locally. Occasionally I find bullets too.

ljnowell
January 16, 2009, 12:27 AM
I guess local prices must be a lot cheaper in some places than here. Locally Bullseye is about 24 bucks a pound, no bigger containers. Primers run 30 / 1K. I can order 1 4 lb canister online for about 53 dollars and 2k primers for another 50 and even with hazmat charges come out well ahead.

ArchAngelCD
January 16, 2009, 03:46 AM
I've found if the online store charges only 1 Hazmat fee you can make an order for a 8lb jug of powder and 5000 primers and be ahead of the game unless you have a very reasonable local supplier. (of which I don't) if you go to Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/) and add $10 to a 8 lb jug of your favorite powder and $10 to 5000 of your favorite primers and do the Math you will see what I mean. An order of that size it's a big order yet you still save money. When you order what you need for the year all at once the savings really grow.

ranger335v
January 16, 2009, 12:13 PM
"...but the law does not charge a fee nor require the shipper/carrier to charge the fee."

Absolutely correct. In defense of our various gobberment grannies, they don't require a lot of the things they get blamed for.

They just spend tons of tax money doing "studies" and then writting silly regulations that sorta force businesses to charge far more than safety or sanity really reqires. But they don't FORCE the affected companies to charge anyone else for all of the expensive "precautions" they demand. Nope, they don't do that. Arrrgggh.

oneounceload
January 16, 2009, 12:30 PM
My understanding is that 2 8# kegs and 25,000 primers are the max in one box for one hazmat fee

rscalzo
January 16, 2009, 12:35 PM
I guess local prices must be a lot cheaper in some places than here

A lot lower, even lower than Midway's prices. I buy CCI primers for $23.50/K. Bullseye is $16.00 a lb.

38 Super Auto
January 16, 2009, 01:19 PM
+1 on Powder Valley. I have been happy with their service and they are prompt and shipping charges are reasonable.

I think UPS doesn't want to ship reloading components and the hazmat is a way to make money off of us. Remember, they are the ones who require you to use 2nd day air for firearms shipment because they cannot control the thievery within their own system. Why not modify their policies, employee screening, and enforcement, rather than gouge us?

ljnowell
January 16, 2009, 02:17 PM
A lot lower, even lower than Midway's prices. I buy CCI primers for $23.50/K. Bullseye is $16.00 a lb.

Thats a good deal. I found a place online where I can get bullseye for 13.99/lb and win LP primers for 24.59/K. Around here the primers are about 5 dollars more and the powder is 24 /lb. Way more than I am willing to pay.

moooose102
January 16, 2009, 09:40 PM
Midway is not a bad company but, they are hurting the company with the shipping.

+1 on that ! i have had several orders in checkout and ready to go until i saw the shipping charges. many times, the amount that they charge eats up the difference of what i can buy the stuff for locally. if i am not going to save money, i am going to support the local guy!

skidooman603
January 17, 2009, 07:20 AM
Nearly always BUY LOCALLY if I can. If I exhaust local options then Graf then Midway. Why not support your local people for nearly the same price and have it today if you can?

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