Guns captured on the way to Mexico (video)


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nwilliams
January 15, 2009, 10:12 PM
The Mexicans apparently really like the 5.7x28:eek:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=003_1231829353

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Titan6
January 15, 2009, 10:27 PM
"95% of guns.... originate in the US...." Sure would like to know the source for that one.

AK rifles, S&B ammo.... originating in the US... hmmm oddly painted hand grenades mounted on a stencil board... I smell a rat... a real big rat....

shooter429
January 16, 2009, 12:27 AM
Wait, American citizens have been screaming to have the border shut down due to the millions of violent illegals coming in hear raping, robbing, Killing, plundering etc. And now that they find illegals doing something shocking-breaking laws, it is somehow our fault.

Mexico has publicly endorced the run by these illegals and even given them armed escorts across the border. Now they are going to send police and military-the same ones who ARE the cartels to stop the violence? Please!

Why is it that nobody seems to understand the meaning of illegal? And close it.

Why not take every one of those seized guns and use them to stop the incursions. Build a wall, paint a deadline, send up drones. end of problem.

Remember the Alamo.

Shooter429

ar10
January 16, 2009, 12:49 AM
There's been a couple of studies over the past 4yrs regarding the smuggling of weapons from the US to Mexico. The last one I read was a report from the FBI early last year. The stated the biggest problem is the straw purchases all along the border. I think that's where they got the data.
I don't think there's enough evidence to support the claim mainly becaue the cartels can get guns for anywhere and in vloumes much bigger than the one I saw on the link.

BrandonBowers
January 16, 2009, 12:50 AM
Wow, much as I hate to say. Nice work by the ATF.

Those grenades were never legal.

Second observation, Mexicans are obsessed with a .224 pistol round (5.7x28) ... dumb.

Hoppy590
January 16, 2009, 01:03 AM
Those grenades were never legal.

depends if they paid the tax

nwilliams
January 16, 2009, 01:20 AM
Well now that it's all in the hands of the ATF I imagine it's off to the crushers and melters:(

Moonclip
January 16, 2009, 07:16 AM
I think they bought in to the hype over AP cabibilities of that round. W/o the proper ammo though I am not impressed, especially out of a 5.7 pistol, .22mag rifle ballistics.

Mexicans are also obsessed with the .38super:)

rogertc1
January 16, 2009, 07:42 AM
All up to Obama!!
Close the boarders...No Way.
Ban firearms in the USA...yep that will do it.
:what:

flaminjo
January 16, 2009, 07:45 AM
every body like the news caster has pinned down her hopes on the new administration...dont know what they are thinking...Obama is not coming up with a magic wand. last year also Bush had initiated a talk between Attorney General's of both the countries. dont think much has been achieved through these talks

Ohio Gun Guy
January 16, 2009, 08:50 AM
I'm not a pot head, dont want my kids doing it, but lets stop pumping millions to Mexico for pot. legalize it...... Or make some method for obtaining it, SOMETHING. This would stop much of the money flowing South that pays for the drug cartels.

In the history of man, has there been any Prohibition that has worked? Name 1 thing that once banned is unobtainable. :cuss:
We need to realize that people will hurt themselves if they are so inclined. What we need to stop, is making really bad people have a lot of cash as the result of it.

A man with a gun!
January 16, 2009, 08:57 AM
Those Mexican cartels are not big into pot anymore. Domestic production has for the most part put an end to that. The seventies are long over. Legalizing pot isn't going to make the cartels go away.

These days their real money is in the distribution of cocaine, meth. (along with it's precurser chemicals) and black tar heroin.

ravonaf
January 16, 2009, 09:04 AM
In the history of man, has there been any Prohibition that has worked?

Prohibition isn't about banning anything. It's about making money. Billions into the "drug war" that end up in the hands of defense contractors. Billions in spiked profits that end up in the hands of the Banks via money laundering. Billions into the hands of the prison industry which ends up with slave labor.

I would say the prohibition on drugs has been VERY successful.

If there is ever a prohibition on guns we can expect similar results.

The_Shootist
January 16, 2009, 09:13 AM
I hear what Ohio Gun Guy says and I'm kinda inclined to go along. I don't agree with legalizing drugs to the point where ya can buy cocain or heroin at your 7-11. But it seems like the Europeans have pretty liberal laws on pot and they aren't exactly getting into car accidents en masse.

One lady from from Holland I correspond with online regularly filled me in on some of the laxer drug laws over there. Her biggest beefs were 1) The Gov't banned magic mushrooms after there was some bad press about some British tourists trying to see if they could fly out of a 4th story hotel room after consuming them 2) You can smoke pot in some of the cafe's in Amsterdam but they threw her out of one for lighting a cigarrete.

I favour keeping the restrictions on harder stuff like coke/smack/tina, but I less in favour of seeing a good chunk of pot sales go south to fund some drug cartels retirement plan.

ar10
January 16, 2009, 09:40 AM
These days their real money is in the distribution of cocaine, meth. (along with it's precurser chemicals) and black tar heroin.

Hizballah Assad Mohamed Barakat is the current cell leader of the TBA (Tri Border Area) that includes Argentina, Venezuela, an Brazil is a major player in the trans shipment of narcotics from overseas to South America and has been since 1992. So not everything comes from Columbia.
Source: "Terrorist and Organized Crime Groups in the Tri-Border Area of South America" Library of Congress Federal Research Division, July 2003.

bl4ckd0g
January 16, 2009, 01:19 PM
The 5.7x28 would fall into the cartridges permissible for importation into Mexico assuming that it isn't a widely militarized cartridge like the 5.56 NATO. Most gringos I've met usually go in with a .38 special and hide it.

Probably don't need much firepower if you're going to sneak up on a drug mule and shoot them in the ear or nape of the neck after they've ****ed up a shipment.

lanternlad1
January 16, 2009, 02:44 PM
Legalize drugs, and there goes the economic incentive for the crime.

The real criminals here are our politicians who could end all this with the stroke of a pen, but won't.

Travis Bickle
January 16, 2009, 03:10 PM
Mexicans are also obsessed with the .38super

That's because .38 super is the most powerful caliber one can legally have in Mexico without being in deep doo-doo.

akodo
January 16, 2009, 03:33 PM
In the history of man, has there been any Prohibition that has worked?

yes absolutely. Are prohibitions ever successful in removing ALL of whatever they are prohibiting? no.

We prohibit slavery, selling of organs, murder, and rape on a state and national level.

We prohibit nukes, biological, and chemical weapons on an international level.

The prohibition of unregistered machineguns is pretty effective actually. I disagree with it but I don't break it.

Many countries have successfully prohibited pornography, alcholol, exposed female body parts, etc.

In none of these cases are these prohibitions ultimately perfectly successful...but you don't see many women flashing a 'whale tail' in Saudi Arabia.

What do the successful prohibitions have in common? Serious enforcment who target ALL involved, and much greater agreement by the society as a whole that said item is 'bad'

For drugs, that means targeting the produces AND distributors AND users...as well as anyone who 'helps' them.

For illegal immigration this would mean targeting those who move illegal immigrants AND targeting illegal immigrants themselves AND targeting the businesses who hire them, be they big or small.

TexasRifleman
January 16, 2009, 03:42 PM
OK so let me get this straight..

Grenades, VERY much illegal in the US and highly controlled, are being bought here and taken to Mexico, where they are VERY much available from corrupt military.

What am I missing here? I don't think I'm gonna believe that :)

ar10
January 16, 2009, 04:33 PM
That's because .38 super is the most powerful caliber one can legally have in Mexico without being in deep doo-doo.

Yep those drug cartels follow the letter of the law in everything they do.

Travis Bickle
January 16, 2009, 04:36 PM
Yep those drug cartels follow the letter of the law in everything they do.

Mexico has a population of 100 million people. Most of them are not in drug cartels.

ultradoc
January 16, 2009, 04:37 PM
Obama will save us ;]

subknave
January 16, 2009, 04:57 PM
I would be very sceptical that all that stuff shown was on its way to Mexico. Notice they had the Barrett and the hand grenades on a board? I thing while the story MAY have been valid a lot of that stuff was staged.

SsevenN
January 16, 2009, 05:03 PM
I've been hearing about the mexican 5.7 craze as long as you guys have.

My brain is about to explode now that I've seen this footage. The worst part is, I can't explain why.

shdwfx
January 16, 2009, 05:24 PM
If we got rid of our Dependency on Foreign Pot, a lot of these border problems would go away. Not advocating drug use here, just an observation.

lionking
January 16, 2009, 09:58 PM
akodo has made the case that prohibition works and in some cases he mentioned it does but when it comes to vices like gambling,sex and consumption of alchohol or drugs it doesn't work that well witness the drug war,witness the 20's and 30's,witness the fact that cops spend their time undercover going to a strip club to make sure a dancer doesn't get too close....:rolleyes:

Besides the occasional lunatic the drug war is the greatest threat to gun ownership,because violence with guns is a bi-product of it.We spend billions of dollars trying to legislate morality and it is a utter failure while at the same time creating a billion dollar black market that fuels death and violence for the sake of sparing death from drug usage?

We fought a war in Columbia now it shifted to Mexico and will just shift to somewhere else if we fight it in Mexico.At the same time Mexico prohibition on firearms fuels their own blackmarket for guns,yet cartels will get them anywhere they need even if supply is cut off from the USA.

People say that drug usage will increase alot with legalization I don't agree,back in the 1800's there wasn't awareness of drugs like today,would you go buy cocaine if it was legal knowing what it does to you?,I doubt it.But those that want it will get it legal or not.

We would be much better off fighting a campaign against usage while legal and using the billions we spend on rehabilitation.Guy gets a drug charge and becomes hard to even get a job with a record,and in part because of that just goes to spend more giving violent gangs even more money.


Yeah we can be like a police state like akodo mentioned other places are but what is the cost for that?Freedom is.

TRGRHPY
January 17, 2009, 02:54 AM
I find it hard to believe that all of these weapons are being purchased here in the US and being smuggled back to mexico. Do you think that a gun is going to be cheaper in the US or Mexico? If I wanted/needed to purchase a bunch of black-market guns, I would think that you could get them cheaper in mexico, and probably have a bigger supply. This is an assumption, though.

Legalizing pot? paleeez... I believe Amsterdam just repealled their pot shops and stuff because of the very reason of why we don't legalize it...crime in the area, criminals in the area, resulting in an area that doesn't look inviting to tourists. They want the tourists to come back so they fix the problem, and the problem is that drugs don't do anything positive for society, so they're getting rid of the pot shops. These uneducated opinions about mind altering substances not causing problems for society is pure stupidity at it's finest. Alcohol is legal, yet it is a factor in roughly 40% of all crime committed in the US...even when you break crimes down into their categories, alcohol still stays at ~40%. So let's add to the problem and make pot legal too...stupids. :banghead:

Deus Machina
January 17, 2009, 03:08 AM
Well, the thing is, everyone that would do something stupid while high already does. The same as drunks, and the same as gun-related crime.

Legalize it and make the stupidity illegal, not the substance or item itself, and remove the criminal element associated with it by removing their income.

Then, run up the punishment for doing anything harsher--herion or murder, in these arguments.

Legalize marijuana, and we may actually come out ahead of the 'war on drugs', because we could tax the heck out of it like we do tobacco and alcohol.

Anyway, as for the calibers, AFAIK, 5.7 and .38 Super are not and have never been 'military calibers' as the Mexican government sees them, which would make them illegal. I doubt the cartels care about the legality, but that means that 1) if they're caught and that's all they have on them, they won't be punished as harshly, 2) it would be easier to sell them to otherwise law-abiding Mexicans, and C) ammo would be more available down there.

TRGRHPY
January 17, 2009, 03:28 AM
Legalize it and make the stupidity illegal, not the substance or item itself, and remove the criminal element associated with it by removing their income.

Yes, and of course, the gangs, the mob, and other criminals types will not try to capitalize on this? Cigarettes are completely legal, and yet there is a massive market for them. All you'd be doing is making it more available for criminals to get their hands on...they just won't have to smuggle it anymore.

Well, the thing is, everyone that would do something stupid while high already does.

Not true. Compare to guns. Most of us here will not try to obtain an illegal class III weapon, but if you took the restrictions away and made them available at 7-11, you will have a massive market for them. There are many people out there who don't do drugs because of the legality of it...you make it legal and you'll have a lot more users, and the current users will be doing more since the access is greater.

Vegaslaith
January 17, 2009, 03:54 AM
Hard drugs like cocaine and heroine aside, the "War on Drugs" should end the same way prohibition did. Marijuana has no where near the harmful qualities of other narcotics. It is a complete and utter waste of time/money. Frankly I'm suprised that many members of a pro-gun, and supposedly pro-liberty site would feel much differently.

Deus Machina
January 17, 2009, 03:57 AM
Cigarettes are completely legal, and yet there is a massive market for them. All you'd be doing is making it more available for criminals to get their hands on...they just won't have to smuggle it anymore.

And that's kind of the point, isn't it? Explain how the gangs, thugs, and mob capitalize on cigarettes and hooch now. Prohibition brought in bootlegging, and the mob-owned rings of underground speakeasies. Maybe the mob 'insures' bars now, but they do the same for dry cleaners.

Not true. Compare to guns. Most of us here will not try to obtain an illegal class III weapon, but if you took the restrictions away and made them available at 7-11, you will have a massive market for them.

Well, I didn't say to make sale unconditional. You'd still need to be of age, and i still think background checks are a good idea. Besides you are right in that most of us pass up the NFA and full-auto stuff, but how many of us do you think would go kill someone or accidentally put a hole through the wall with an M16 that wouldn't with their Remington?

There are many people out there who don't do drugs because of the legality of it...you make it legal and you'll have a lot more users, and the current users will be doing more since the access is greater.

True, but the same holds true for drinkers.

The people that don't smoke pot because of the legality are, in general--and it pains me to say this, because it contradicts my views of humanity as a whole--smart people. If they wouldn't do it because it's illegal, what are the chances that they would get stoned out of their gourd, then go and end up rear-ending someone at McDonald's to feed their munchies?

No, addicts smoke despite it being illegal, drunks drink and drive despite the legality and stupidity, and junkies are still junkies. People that don't smoke pot right now because of the legality generally don't drink and drive, and I for one think that means they won't smoke and drive or otherwise use it irresponsibly.

As for the harder drugs, keep those punishments the same, or require rehab the first time, then a harsh punishment after that. Those are still harmful, and will as such always require the criminal element to acquire them. At least the addictive qualities of marijuana are almost purely mental, and it causes only a small percentage of the damage to your body that cigarettes do.

And I've known a few throughout my school days--you can tell a pothead even when they're sober and often before they even start the stuff.

chris in va
January 17, 2009, 06:16 AM
Legalize pot...heh. We have alcohol under sales control, look what happens with that mess. Drunk drivers, assaults, doing stupid things they'd never do sober etc.

So let's have people abusing the stuff, that's just great.

Deus Machina
January 17, 2009, 06:23 AM
Oh, it's not like they don't. But at least if it's legal the worst abuse will be tying up the phone lines to Pizza Hut. :p

TRGRHPY
January 17, 2009, 07:53 AM
I don't think you have any idea of how this relates to crime at all.

But enough of the thread-jacking..

subknave
January 17, 2009, 10:44 AM
True, but the same holds true for drinkers.

The people that don't smoke pot because of the legality are, in general--and it pains me to say this, because it contradicts my views of humanity as a whole--smart people. If they wouldn't do it because it's illegal, what are the chances that they would get stoned out of their gourd, then go and end up rear-ending someone at McDonald's to feed their munchies?

No, addicts smoke despite it being illegal, drunks drink and drive despite the legality and stupidity, and junkies are still junkies. People that don't smoke pot right now because of the legality generally don't drink and drive, and I for one think that means they won't smoke and drive or otherwise use it irresponsibly.

I don't know if you realize it but that is the same argument they use to fight CCW laws. If people are allowed to carry a gun there will be massive gun battles and shootings. I don't think it would happen. The vast majority of people will act responsibly.

statelineblues
January 17, 2009, 02:44 PM
Explain how the gangs, thugs, and mob capitalize on cigarettes and hooch now.

Apparently, you don't smoke or, if you do, you don't live in a state that puts $2 to $4 tax on a pack of cigarettes (NJ, NY, CA, for example), or the same amount per bottle of alcohol.

Remember 'BATF' stands for Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; look up how much untaxed/illegal cigs and booze they confiscated last year.

(Sorry about the thread hijack:))

Javelin
January 17, 2009, 02:50 PM
We need to keep deporting these folks and tighten boarder security. This also means creating a 1-mile no-mans land and anything within that area maintain authorized use of deadly force. Same damn thing we do with our Nuclear weapon silos that are in ND, MT, CO, etc. Just on a tad larger area with use of rotary aircraft.

Post pics of everything and advertise heavily. This should be a decent deterrent.

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