[hairless_ape]

As I live in the People's Republic of New Jermeny CC is not an option, so leave any thoughts of dual purpose at the door...there is no such thing here. And given the restriction to 15 round magazines here in NJ there really is no need to compromise on caliber for the sake of higher capacity.

I just want to here people's opinions on the compromises of one vs. the other. (accessory rail, felt recoil, ease of operation under stress, reliability, etc...) One of the major factors here is going to be cost. My absolute max is $700, but would ideally like to stay as close to $600 as possible in the event that I decide on the 1911. So don't go suggesting anything for $750, because it's completely out of the question. I'm not a fan of the sights on the SA GI 1911, so we can rule that (or anything with similar sights) out.

For anyone who would like to suggest the search function...well, I don't really need to say it. Do I? :neener:

[possum]

my xd service model has been 100% reliable since day one, even after
11k rds.

i would say go with the xd, for one you will get capacity more than with a standard single stack 1911, as well even though there are many railed 1911's it is harder to find one than a non railed, and even though i like the 1911, if i had to go into harms way and had my choice i would take my xd, with xs night sights.

[CDH]

For home defense only, I'd go with the XD45.
You didn't explain much about your situation, but I'll assume that there might be a woman in the house as well as yourself.
If that's the case, there's something to be said about a simple (but very safe) pistol that all the little woman has to know about is to "point and pull the trigger".
In a dire state of emergency, a person not "into" guns such as a typical live-in wife or girlfriend is best served by having something available that doesn't require any thinking at all.

I have several pistols around the house that all have my wife in mind in that her only instructions I have to give her for any of them is to just point and pull the trigger if necessary. That includes an XD9SC, two Smith 642's, a Ruger LCP and a Rohrbaugh. The one thing all those pistols have in common is that none of them have safeties, and they are all kept chambered so all you have to do is squeeze off a round without "worrying her pretty little head".

Additionally, there is absolutely no benefit to the 1911 being thinner since it's not going to be carried anyway, and the 15 round mag in the XD is better anyway due to one of the things we are concerned with a lot in our homes, and that is a "home invasion" which often includes multiple participants as opposed to a typical on-the-street mugging where mostly just one person is involved.
Whichever way you go, think also about having it fitted with night sights which are nice to have in a home defense situation even more than on the street.

That's all I got.

[uh-oh]

Much less expensive and much more suited to the purpose of HD is the 12-gage shotgun and will be much kinder to your wallet, especially if you go the pump action/hi-cap tube route.

[ArmedBear]

XD .45, hands down.

The 1911 is a fine high-end toy and competition gun.

At the end of the day, though, the XD holds twice the ammo, draws quicker, has far simpler controls, and puts rounds on target without fail.

The XD for home defense, for the same reason that delivery services don't drive Porsches.

[tbtrout]

Go and fondle them to see which feels better in your hand. I have an XD 40 and a few 1911's. Regardless of caliber I would take a 1911 first. I just did a trigger job in the XD so i will find out Suday how much better it shoots, The stock trigger pulls in an XD are horrible.

Either way they are both reliable designs. If a 1911 is your choice, for the money you can get a RIA Tactical

[ArmedBear]

I have really liked the trigger pull on an XD .45. Not sure if it has had work done on it, but a fist-sized group at 25 yards with irons is sufficient for defensive work.

The fact that a 1911 feels neat is why the connoisseur in me likes it. But as a practical defensive gun, I think the XD is a far superior tool than the old war horse, much as I love the thing.

[jad0110]

I agree with tbtrout. Handle examples of both, a lot. Rent or borrow some to shoot, if at all possible and pick the one that works best for you.

I was a horrible shot with my XD9, as it never felt right in my hands. And like tb, I personally found the trigger to be pretty lousy in stock form. Of course, my 1911 had a really crummy trigger out of the box too, but since it felt right I spent the extra $$$ to have an action job performed to take the grit and creep out.

In the end, I shoot 1911s a heck of a lot better than XDs, so between the two I'd go 1911. I got the Springfield Mil-Spec, which is like the GI but has better 3-dot sites, a bevelled magazine well and a lowered and flared ejection port (probably only important for reloaders). Mine cost about $525 new last year. But as far as handguns, I greatly prefer my S&W 686 .357 Mag as a nightstand gun, as I shoot it better still than the 1911. BTW, the only purpose of the 686 is to get myself to my 12 gauge pump, if at all possible.

[ArmedBear]

But as far as handguns, I prefer my S&W 686 .357 Mag as a nightstand gun, as I shoot it better still than the 1911 (but by just a tad).

Bingo.

If you only want 7 rounds, you can get a great revolver. Like the XD, it has simple controls and just plain works -- but like the 1911, it's got classic beauty, too.

[hairless_ape]

Yeah, yeah...details.

I recently purchased a Mossberg 930 (nice simple home security model) for any "ideal" tactical situations that may occur in our home. Which would be a confrontation down stairs, or after the entire family has been secured in one room and we're bunkered down. The wife is small (she CLAIMS to be 5' 3") and has had 4 shoulder surgeries (HS & College pitcher) so the reduced recoil of a semi-auto combined with the easier use under stress won out over the tried and true pump.

Only problem is there is a much less than ideal situation in my home that I feel must be tackled by a hand gun though. Any confrontation while moving through the upstairs hallway while securing the family. There is simply no way to easily maneuver a shotgun in the narrow spaces and tight corners. Unless of course you had a pistol grip w/no stock and a 12" barrel.

[bigmike45]

I have both and the XD45 spends more time as a HD gun expecially since it has a rail and I can mount a light on it. My 4" 1911 spends most of the time on my hip for concealed carry.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/XD45wLIGHT2.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/1911CarryRig.jpg

[tbtrout]

ArmedBear I have to disagree with your opinion that the 1911 is not a good defensive gun. If there is one design that has proven itself, over the almost a century now, it is that design. They are not for everyone and I respect your opinion it is not for you, but as someone who has trained with used and carried one, they are more than capable of getting you out of a bad situation with the utmost reliability.

[BT2Flip]

I have to go with XD also...
I LOVE 1911 s...and Kimber is a work of absolute BEAUTY ... but if my life is on the line

SA XD 45 ALL THE WAY

by "feel" you can 'SEE' if it is loaded(one in the chamber) and you can "FEEL" if it is cocked

in pitch black there is NO wondering with XD

Its the difference between a MACK and a PETERBUILT

Peterbuilt is pretty BUT a Mack is gonna get the job done !

just my .02

[j1979]

1911 hands down. IMO much more comfortable, and better feeling weapon all around. I used to have a GLock and HK and even a CZ SP-01, I sold them all after my first outing with a 1911. Yea it has less capacity but if you cant diffuse the problem with 8+1 you have bigger problems. STI Spartan fits in your price range, one of the best, if not THE best entry level 1911. I also disagree with ArmedBear, the 1911 has proved itself for a long, long time. Its just shotty companies make some shotty pistols and the platform get a bad name.

[BT2Flip]

there is NOTHING worse than hearing "Click" when you REALLY NEED A BANG!

[Boats]

I'll be contrarian.

I owned an XD. I wound up not liking it because I could not change the reach between the backstrap and the trigger.

Capacity is not everything, having the pistol feel like a natural extension of your will is. The biggest advantage to the 1911A1 is its fantastically developed aftermarket. The pistol can be changed to feel custom welded to your hand, something a Hogue grip sleeve simply can't accomplish. 8+1 is enough.

Railed 1911A1s are just an order away at the gun shop.

[ArmedBear]

ArmedBear I have to disagree with your opinion that the 1911 is not a good defensive gun.

I didn't say it wasn't.

I said that the XD is superior in that role. Like I said, the controls are simpler, the capacity is almost double, and the gun just plain works.

If it doesn't fit you, well, it doesn't fit you. That would disqualify it, obviously. That's its weakness: you can't put on all sorts of different grips, or change the backstrap.

I used to have a GLock and HK and even a CZ SP-01, I sold them all after my first outing with a 1911.

The CZ is a DA/SA gun, the one thing more complicated to deal with under stress than a cocked-and-locked 1911. A Glock points differently, and I don't like 'em, either. I'd prefer a 1911, since it points and shoots far better for me. The XD's ergonomics are quite different from a Glock, and it points and shoots like a champ, for me -- and I like the 1911. I haven't spent much time with H-Ks.

Note also that the OP asked about HD, not CCW and not match shooting. If you don't have to worry about the size of the gun, capacity may not be everything, but it's sure something. And sure, you can get rails on a 1911 -- for yet more money.

Man, how does every post where someone asks a specific question turn into an "I love to take my $1500 1911 to the range and everyone should get one just like it for bear hunting, home defense, etc. and the Army should get them again, too!" thread?:p

[j1979]

That whats great about a forum, you get 95% percent opinion, and 5% truth. The funny thing is we all look at these places for guidance when it comes to purchasing guns, or just general questions!! By the way, Whats the best lube there is for a auto handgun?

[ArmedBear]

But j1979: your post doesn't seem untrue. It's just that the one gun you didn't compare the 1911 is the gun the OP actually asked about.

[Black Dime]

What CDH said. Reading some of the posts, it seems a point has to be made that agrees CDH.

I have a couple of 1911s and the National Match has had thousands of rounds ran through it. IPSC for eight years and other competitions like plate matches. It feels like an extension of my hand. I am 67 and have competed in various disciplines for over 40 years.

BUT, in addition to a jungle rigged AR, an old S&W M59 is beside me at night. I consider myself pretty decent with the National Match but I would not want to hold the cocked (not locked) SA 45 on one or more bad guys. The DA first shot, in my opinion, in the house will not require MOA.

A gun owner MUST be very familiar with a cocked single action in a stressful situation. Talk about the proverbial " A heartbeat from......".

[j1979]

You are right there ArmedBear, I left out the comparison. Sometimes my brain moves faster than my fingers can type.

[j1979]

delete

[wccountryboy]

I'm a 1911 guy, I carry one daily, and have absolute faith in the platform... BUT in the <$700 range, I'd go with the XD. Your choices in 1911s are limited to offerings by Taurus, RIA, and SA, but the Springfield models in that price range have military type sights. While some rave about the Taurus and RIA 1911s, I don't have much faith in them. If a gunsmith won't use it as a base for a build, there's usualy a reason.
You could consider a used 1911, one can usualy be had within your budget.
The XD offers everthing you need and want, within your budget.

[hairless_ape]

The reason I specifically mentioned the XD45 and the 1911 is that they're the two that I've held (read: fondled) that felt like an extension of my hand. The glock, Taurus 24/7, berretas I held just didn't fit quite right. Unfortunately no one around here seems to rent firearms, that's why I came to you jokers.

I'm not sure if I held the XD 45 or the XD 45 4" service model though. What's the difference?

[BT2Flip]

for the fella the "Had" an XD...
the New XDm's are superior to the older XDs
in that the back strap is changeable to make the grip smaller or larger with 3 sizes to choose from and
they come in 40 cal and 9 mm... no 45 yet :D

me like XDm...;)

[BT2Flip]

what countryboy said !
a new in the box with all kinds of accessories can be had for around $580

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325182&highlight=VT

[JaxNovice]

But as far as handguns, I prefer my S&W 686 .357 Mag as a nightstand gun, as I shoot it better still than the 1911 (but by just a tad).

As great as a .357 is for stopping power, I would vote against it for HD. Just for the simple fact that discharging .357 in a closed area will leave you deaf and blind for a little bit. I am not saying that a .45 is pleasant to shoot indoors, just that a .357 is so much worse.

[ArmedBear]

Let me clarify my own thought process. We know that hairless ape could shoot either one, since they both fit and point well (same as they do for me).

Let's consider a home defense scenario.

When you grab the pistol from your nighstand or quick-access safe, point it and pull the trigger, what happens?

The XD fires. The 1911 does nothing. If you think that the safety will always be set how you want it, or how you think it is, when the chips are down, you've never been bird or rabbit hunting. At best, you have to be thinking about something that distracts you from what's important. At worst, under attack by a knife-wielding BG, you will pull the trigger and find that the safety is on.

You want to check to make sure a round is chambered, without taking your eyes away from a potential threat, and/or in the dark.

With the XD you can. With the 1911 you can't.

You want to insert the magazine, but you are 1/4" off because you're looking ahead, not at the butt of your gun.

The XD magazine goes in. The 1911 magazine doesn't.

You have fired 8 rounds. You pull the trigger.

The XD fires. The 1911 requires another magazine -- which as noted above, is a good deal harder to insert under stress.

These are not just my feelings. Compare the two guns, for real, not just having fun at the range.

I like the 1911. It's a wonderful gun in so many ways. I drool over some of them at the shop, while spending zero time longing for polymer-framed modern pistols. I've started shooting bullseye matches, so I really appreciate finely-crafted, accurate guns that feel great in the hand and shoot really well.

And the XD .45 is still my HD choice over the 1911.

[riverdog]

For reasons that ArmedBear mentioned, I went with a Glock over the 1911 (XD wasn't around when the decision was made). G-21 has more rounds in the magazine, a softer felt recoil, superb reliability and an integral light rail (for those inclined to identify their target at night).

OTOH my 1911's have great triggers, but if you learn and use a short reset with teh Glock trigger, it's not too bad.

[hairless_ape]

Thanks a lot ArmedBear. That was precisely the kind of analytical side-by-side no b/s comparison I was looking for. My brother is pushing me to try out a HK45, so I'll hold one of those and see how it feels. But the safety on the XD will probably draw me back unless the HK feels perfect.

[ArmedBear]

One more addendum.:)

A home defense pistol is a bit of a special case.

A 1911 can make a good CCW piece. It's a good deal skinnier, and the safety and chamber are much less of an issue. Since you handle the thing daily, you presumably check it daily, and if you ever have to use it, you will be alert and aware.

My HD pistol is in a quick-access safe. I've shot a good deal lately, but I haven't so much as looked at THAT particular gun, in weeks. I can't remember for sure if there's a round in the chamber or not. I'm going to go check...

If I ever have to get it out, it might be dark, 2:30 AM, and I won't be totally sure what to expect. The last thing I need is a precision gun with little controls to worry about. I need one that is as simple as possible, and that can be used fast and without fumbling.

The long XD trigger pull that may not be ideal for match shooting may be just what the doctor ordered, if you have to hold someone at gunpoint while the cops come. "Oops, I shot him!" with a fine single-action trigger on a 1911 is not what you want... But neither is putting the safety on. If he does come at you, the XD will work great.

The ambidextrous mag release isn't something I'd sweat over, but the XD has one. You can use either hand to release the mag, which could possibly matter at some point. With 13 rounds in the mag, it's less of an issue than it would be with 7 or 8, though, and the 1911 doesn't have that mag catch design.

That's my approach, anyway.:)

Good luck with your choice. They're all good guns.

[Boats]

Let's consider a home defense scenario.

When you grab the XD from your nightstand or quick-access safe, accidentally hit the rather easy to operate ambi mag catch and then point it and pull the trigger, what happens?

The XD fires. Once. You've just dropped its magazine. I hope you have carpet or the full mag has probably just puked its rounds out after the baseplate flew off.

The 1911A1 fires because it doesn't barf its magazines from accidental touches to either side of the weapon, it's magazine is much more positively locked in than is the XDs. Furthermore, you've trained yourself to sweep off the thumb safety as you present the weapon to the target because you like to practice with it. It has become second nature and yes, when cocked and locked, it will remain just like you left it.

You want to check to make sure a round is chambered, without taking your eyes away from a potential threat, and/or in the dark.

With the XD you can. With the 1911 you don't have to. If you cocked it, it's because you chambered a round or fired a round. If the slide is locked back, you can't feel the hammer, or ejection port, or any other slide reference point you want to pick. You don't need a swinging metal doohickey on the top of the chamber or another thingamajig sticking out of the back of the slide. Chamber checks are much more necessary on striker designs.

You want to insert the magazine, but you are 1/4" off because you're looking ahead, not at the butt of your gun.

The XD magazine goes in. The 1911 magazine does too, you've just choked it up near the feed lips to guide it and then slammed it home, it's all in the practice.

You have fired 9 rounds. With the XD you keep firing, with the 1911A1 you reload and look at the bad guy bleed out from nine COM hits.:neener:

These are not just my feelings. Compete with the two guns, for real, not just having fun at the range.

I chucked the XD and kept the 1911A1s.:D

[j1979]

I agree with Boats. If you are using a 1911 for a defensive piece, its always going to be cocked and locked, at least if you know how to use a 1911. No guessing if a rounds in the chamber, no guessing if the hammer is cocked, no trying to find the magwell. Simply take safety off and fire. This is the way the 1911 was meant to be used. In every scenerio stated in the past post could all be true with the XD as well. Is there a mag in the xd, round in the chamber, is it cocked??:uhoh:

[ArmedBear]

Is there a mag in the xd, round in the chamber, is it cocked??

You've never shot one, have you?

The 1911A1 fires because it doesn't barf its magazines from accidental touches to either side of the weapon, it's magazine is much more positively locked in than is the XDs.

Neither have you, apparently.

[j1979]

Actually I have. You just make it sound like with a 1911 you never know what condition it is in, and with an XD everything is taken care of for you because it has some doohickeys on it that tell you if its loaded. I know my 1911 is loaded because it is cocked, safety is on, and there is a mag in it. No thinking about anything

[76shuvlinoff]

scalpel vs straight razor, both effective in the right hands.

[jpatterson]

I really don't like the LOOKS of XD and I personally have a 1911 for HD, but I think an XD is more practical in that scenario. But as it's been said, both are as effective as the user is.

[tbtrout]

With respect to all of the scenerios and their thinkers if you do not train, not practice, but train with your HD gun it does not matter what features the gun has. If you can not change a mag w/o looking at the mag well to make sure it goes in you should have a revolver. If you can not manipulate the controls with your weakhand you should learn. Hell, you should learn how to change mags and chamber a round with only one hand. A home defense situation is not always hearing a noise and waiting to ambush the intruder, it cold be someone kicking in your front door and you running for your gun while sustaining and injury. Train like your life depends on it, one day it might.

It sounds like you have your choices to pick from, shoot them and learn how to use the one you pick and muscle memory will take over if the situation arises. How you train with your gun will dictate how you use it if the time comes.

And for the record a Sig P220 is my go nightstand gun

Good luck.

[Valkman]

XD .45, hands down.

The 1911 is a fine high-end toy and competition gun.

At the end of the day, though, the XD holds twice the ammo, draws quicker, has far simpler controls, and puts rounds on target without fail.


I feel the same and with the $$$ limits you have I'd go with the XD45 all day long. I use 2 XD45's for HD plus a 1911 and I like the higher capacity but also the rail and have lights for both of them.

[Quoheleth]

I'll cast a vote at the SA. I love my 1911 (also a Springfield, FWIW) but I keep a Smith M&P9 near my bed.

Out of curiosity, hairless ape, have you checked out the M&P? I went that route vs. the Xd because of the changeable backstraps - I was able to make the gun fit me vs. the other way around. Price points are similar; I believe (don't quote me) Smith is doing a $50 rebate still.

Q

[jad0110]

As great as a .357 is for stopping power, I would vote against it for HD. Just for the simple fact that discharging .357 in a closed area will leave you deaf and blind for a little bit.

Ahhh, I see that my prior post wasn't too clear ... I do load my 686 with 38+P (158 grn LSWCHP), as I shoot them a bit better (quicker follow-ups, less flinching) than 357s.

[hairless_ape]

I have not seen the S&W M&P in person yet. Though I just checked it out on their site. Looks interesting, I'll have to see if I can find one. The all SS slide and barrel is interesting.

[DocBoCook]

Never shot the 1911, but honestly, if it's the Nightstand gun, I want a Lever action safety that I can trust. the XD safety is not my trusted "round in the chamber" gun ( I use a ruger P series for this)

[mfcmb]

I love my Springfield XD .45 ACP service model. It fits my hand, points well, shoots accurately, has very manageable recoil, has been completely reliable, is dead nuts simple to operate, I can tell it's exact condition in the dark by feeling it's loaded and cocked indicators, holds a lot of ammo, is easy to reload by touch, can mount a light and/or laser, was affordable, has been well reviewed, and has a good warranty. Those were all the things on my checklist of important features, and I got them all in the XD.

I've shot a few 1911s, and had fun, but for self defense I don't want to have to fiddle with a safety, I want a higher capacity magazine, and don't feel I need a faster-action trigger.

But then I've been handgunning for less than a year. Maybe when I'm an old hand I'll feel different. For now I'm very happy with my choice.

good luck in making your choice.

[jlg]

My HD and CCW are the same gun...Kimber 1911.
As stated previously by several others, wondering if it's loaded isn't an issue...it's always loaded, cocked and locked. Whether coming out of the safe next to my bed our out of my holster, my thumb naturally disengages the safety during the draw so I don't see that as an issue.
I also own an XD45 and have had no problems with it, I just prefer the feel and the trigger of my 1911 over the XD. However, the 1911 did cost about twice as much.
If your on a budget, go with the XD. Then buy a bunch of practice ammo and...well practice.
This may be a bit over the top, but I practice (with the weapon unloaded) getting out of bed, retrieving my pistol and taking aim at the doorway in the dark - as quickly and quietly as possible. You'd be suprised at how much slower you are than the "trained assassin" we all picture ourselves as in our heads.
One thing I've never thought of until now... I practice regularly drawing my pistol from a concealed holster and putting rounds on a target. But I've never taken my safe to the range to practice opening it, retrieving the pistol, and actually engaging a target...probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Dang, I talk too much...my vote for your scenario/budget - XD

[j1979]

Yea, budget can make or break the quality of a 1911. I look at them like tattoos. Good ones are not cheap, cheap ones are not good.

[fxhunter]

Have you considered the Para Big Hawg? 14 rds 45 on a aluminum frame of 28oz. All the bells and whistle allready done also. Price $670 at Academy.

[Boats]

Quote:
Is there a mag in the xd, round in the chamber, is it cocked??
You've never shot one, have you?

Quote:
The 1911A1 fires because it doesn't barf its magazines from accidental touches to either side of the weapon, it's magazine is much more positively locked in than is the XDs.
Neither have you, apparently.

Fired an XD much more than you have handled or fired an 1911 apparently. Don't let your lack of experience make you humorless though because the thought of you fumbling with a 1911 while becoming a slick pistolero with the XD creates quite the comedic juxtaposition.

[DanielW]

Other than the mag capacity I don't see any advantages to the XD. If you are using the gun for home defense you should always know what state it's in. Mine would be chambered and cocked with the safety on. If you're using the argument that the XD is just point and shoot, you can leave the thumb safety off on the 1911 as well. As far as the loading argument, you can get a mag well that will make reloading very easy.

[magnumman44]

Just to reiterate what several have said, if you are well-skilled in the use of the gun that you use for HD, either will be sufficient. I am new to the 1911, but I love it and will carry it come this spring/summer if I feel that I am familiar enough with its controls and use, but I will continue to use my XD for CCW in the colder months. My XD45Tactical hangs in its shoulder holster on the bedpost nightly for many of the reasons others have stated, just like my wife has her custom XD9Tactical on her side of the bed and in the living room when I am away. Get what is most comfortable for you,or get both!!

[Keoni]

XD. No thumb safety to miss, accessory rail and high capacity.
Guess you might say hi-capacity 1911 with rail, but it wouldn't be 1911 as JMB intended.

[mljdeckard]

Without reading the rest of the thread,

If it strictly a stay at home gun, why not get a Remington 870, load it with #4 and call it good?

And as far as the 1911 being a better or worse choice for fighting than an XD, I carried MANY other autos before I decided that a 1911 works best for me. For EVERYTHING. Carry, home defense, or WAR. You need to learn to use a gun correctly no matter what it is. Mine is loaded 10 +1. Every gun runs out of ammo, you can't say one is better than the other based on that. I wouldn't let either one get past five withoug reloading anyway.

Having said that, if we had another straight up trial for a new service pistol, I think an XD would be tough to beat.