Redding Competition Seater Die (.45 Colt) and Competition 10X powder measure.


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1858
January 17, 2009, 07:04 AM
I have a number of Redding Competition Seater Dies for different rifle calibers and based on how well they work, I recently upgraded to the Competition Seater Die for .45 Colt/.454 Casull. I've been loading .45 Colt using Redding's 3-Die Carbide Set but have found that the seater die tends to gouge the lead bullets during seating and there's no controlled feeding of the bullet into the case to aid alignment. Using the Redding CS die, I was able to load perfect .45 Colt rounds using a 250 grain LRNFP bullet from Oregon Trail. The controlled feed offered by the spring and the perfect shape of the seater plug combined with the incredible accuracy of the micrometer all work together to seat the bullet without any damage, in perfect alignment and to a precise depth. I'm using an RCBS RockChucker with a #23 shell holder from Redding. Since I load 200 grain LRNFP and 300 grain FP as well, the micrometer will really help to make fast, accurate adjustments when changing bullets. This die has greatly improved my reloading experience and the quality of my reloads. I would highly recommend it to anyone loading .45 Colt.

As for the powder measure, I usually weigh out the powder for my reloads but I bought the 10X a few months ago for my progressive press and decided to try it for 80 loads of H110 (22.0gr). I was very impressed by how accurate it is and how fast it is to load that many rounds. I checked the weight periodically and I found that the deviation was minimal with a range of 22.0 grains to 22.1 grains ... easily good enough for my use. The 10X is classified as a pistol/small rifle powder measure so it's ideal for .45 Colt loads from 5.0 grains all the way up to 25.0 grains.



:)

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mallc
January 17, 2009, 10:13 AM
The RedGuys are shunning your post while they fugure out how to keep their Perfect Powder Measures to + or - 0.3 grain. Most will tell you that they always tickle feed in order to get the perfect charge.

I agree with you that Redding is exceptionally well made and accurate equipment.

I agree with the RedGuys that Redding is a bit pricey.

Scott

Walkalong
January 17, 2009, 10:16 AM
I love my 10X measure as well. Very consistent. It also works for a couple of small rifle calibers, as well as 5.7 X 28 that I just started loading recently.

I have the Redding Competition die in .45 and use it all the time in .45 ACP, but have not tried it in .45 Colt. (Do they make a separate one for .45 Colt?) I like the way I can dial it to whatever .45 ACP I am loading at the time. Since I use several bullets in it, that is really handy. I finally bought one for use in .38/.357 as well. I really like the Hornady pistol caliber seater dies, and have several, but the micrometer top they make for them is very poorly marked.

1858
January 17, 2009, 02:57 PM
mallc, I can see how some don't feel that Redding dies are worth the extra cost. The competition seater die cost about $65 but it'll last the rest of my life and will have seated thousands of dollars worth of bullets by the time I'm done. I think that's a good return on investment.

Who are The RedGuys?

Walkalong, Redding does make a specific competition seater die for the .45 Colt/.454 Casull. I don't have Competition Seater Dies for .45 ACP, .44 Mag, .357 Mag or 9mm but I will be changing that over the next few months. It's not a priority, but now that I've seen how much better (damage free and aligned) the seating process can be with lead bullets I'm definitely going to switch. I'm going to use the 10X to load 1000 .223 Remington rounds (for storage). I've just about finished trimming all the cases.

One last comment: There was only one review for the Competition Seater Die on Midway and the reviewer got it totally wrong. I still don't understand why he had a problem with the die. I submitted a review so hopefully it'll help others make an informed decision. Moral of the story ... don't always believe what you read or at the very least, question the "knowledge and expertise" of the author.

:)

utk
January 17, 2009, 05:27 PM
I once owned a 9mm Competition Seating Die.
What a joke! The spring loaded seating plunger makes sure the bullet stays crooked during seating! The bullet has no chance to align itself.
It's a bit like "the emperor's new clothes" - say Redding and everybody raises it to the skies.
Sold the seater quickly and returned to my Hornady seating die, that is a working design!

1858
January 17, 2009, 05:30 PM
utk, what a bunch of crap!! Nothing is truly idiot proof is it? :banghead:

utk
January 17, 2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah, this Redding die is a "bunch of crap"!
Funny, the Hornady seating die looks almost like the Redding Rifle Competition Seating die. And this is quite a different design, both have a sliding chamber for case + bullet. This makes the bullet align true on the case mouth as the chamber moves upwards to meet the seating plunger.

All you dis-believers - study the die's respective design and judge for yourselves...

And 1858, I think you should watch your language. No reason to be rude just because we think differently!

mallc
January 17, 2009, 06:17 PM
1858,

I have a T7, 3BRK powder measure. I have Redding competition dies sets in .223, 30.06 and I put a .223 competition seating die on my Dillon XL650. I have also upgraded to Redding Deluxe Die sets for 45 ACP, 8mm x 57, 6.5mm JAP, 7.62 x 54R, and 303 British. I also have RCBS, Lyman, CH, Dillon, and LEE dies.

Redding is by far the best tooling I have used to date.

The RedGuys are the LEE Team. Ferociously loyal, and organized. They out number us about 5 to one on this site. Great bunch of folks...just a little misguided when it comes to cost versus value...;)

Scott

mallc
January 17, 2009, 06:19 PM
Are you sure you used the right sized bullet? hee hee hee

Scott

1858
January 17, 2009, 06:25 PM
Funny, the Hornady seating die looks almost like the Redding Rifle Competition Seating die. And this is quite a different design, both have a sliding chamber for case + bullet. This makes the bullet align true on the case mouth as the chamber moves upwards to meet the seating plunger.

Well that's odd since my Redding Competition Seater Die (in .45 Colt) DOESN'T have a sliding chamber. The only internals that move are the seat and the spring.

And 1858, I think you should watch your language. No reason to be rude just because we think differently!

Thinking differently is fine ... but given that I use SIX Redding Competition Seater Dies on a regular basis (and understand how they work) with excellent results and you "claim" to have had one that you managed to describe incorrectly makes me wonder if your post has any merit.

As for the alignment issue you mentioned, no die on the planet is going to align a bullet properly and without damage if the mouth of the case isn't large enough and/or the bullet is too far out of alignment to begin with. I only size the top 1/3 of the .45 Colt cases with a carbide die, bell the mouth of the case just enough for the bullet to get started in the case and seat without any problems. The whole point of the spring is that it DOES help in aligning the bullet. The spring is linear i.e. F=-kx so the more the spring is compressed the greater the force on the bullet. Once the seat stops moving (by which time the bullet is perfectly aligned), the bullet is pushed down into the case. So the seating process is PROGRESSIVE with lot's of ram movement between zero force on the bullet and maximum force required for seating. Without a spring, the alignment phase and the seating phase are one and the same with only a few thousandths of an inch between zero force and maximum force so two things can happen. First, the bullet gets pushed into the case when it's out of alignment leading to a damaged bullet since the force required to seat is greater. Second, bullet lube gets squeezed out of the groove. Neither scenario is acceptable to me.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and comments like "Redding is overpriced" is a valid opinion if you believe that to be the case and I for one won't argue with that. Comments like "this is a piece of junk" because you don't know how to use it properly, or are not using it properly, are ignorant and misleading. I had a problem recently with a Lee crimping die. I didn't assume that the die was rubbish, I did some research and discovered (with the help of others on this forum) that I was the problem.

:)

1858
January 17, 2009, 06:41 PM
mallc, ok ... now I get it. :) I apologize for my "outburst" earlier but it just frustrates me that people immediately assume that the equipment is the problem rather than their own ignorance or incompetence. I'm currently using Redding Competition Seater Dies for .300 Win Mag, .300 WSM, .308 Win, .223 Remington, .45 Colt and .45-70 and they ALL work incredibly well without any problems. I'm also using Redding Competition Neck Sizing Dies for the .300 and .223 calibers listed above and again they're excellent and work exactly as they're supposed to. When I hear reports to the contrary such as that idiot's review on Midway's site, it makes me question the skill, intelligence and/or ability of the user. I don't have any agenda on this forum ... I tell it like it is, for good or bad, and I'm not here to promote one manufacturer over another. Like you I have dies from RCBS, Redding and Lee and I'm sure that Hornady and others make excellent products too.

:)

utk
January 17, 2009, 07:10 PM
1858: I was comparing the Redding RIFLE competition seating die with its sliding chamber. All Hornady seating dies, both rifle and pistol, have a similar sliding chamber.
The Redding pistol comp. seating die has no sliding chamber, like you said.

I am sure Redding makes some fine equipment, they wouldn't have been in business otherwise. But I've had bad luck with several Redding items, and I guess that makes me a bit sceptical about them.
In fact, I have the 10X powder measure and even that wasn't perfect out of the box. The rotor was binding part of the handle travel and I had to polish it smooth with some valve grinding compound. I also have their profile crimp die in .38/.357 and to my eyes, the crimp just looks "funny". A Dillon crimp die make my crimps look exactly like factory rounds. Don't know if the Redding crimp is supposed to look like that of if something is wrong, though.
A scale was returned because the knife edges on the beam were not ok, the beam would occationally bind. Redding told me to hone the edges but I didn't feel competent enough to do that.
Yes, I guess I've had some bad luck... or am I stupid? Don't think so!

PO2Hammer
January 18, 2009, 03:27 AM
I have the 10X, T-7 press and various Redding dies including the micrometer seater in .357 and soon in .38 Super.

Outstanding equipment.

Walkalong
January 18, 2009, 12:49 PM
The only sizer I have ever had a carbide ring come out of was a Redding. Do they make excellent stuff? Yes they do. Did they replace it no charge, yes they did.

Oh yea, do I use some Lee stuff too? Yes I do. Lee, Lyman, C&H, RCBS, Hornady, Forster....... :)

lgbloader
January 18, 2009, 02:05 PM
Redding equipment has treated me great as well. I have not had one issue with any of my Redding Comp dies. And the T7 press is absolutely fabulous. Sounds like I need a 10X PM.

LGB

BigJakeJ1s
January 19, 2009, 12:43 AM
I've not used a Redding comp die, so I cannot comment on its performance, only its design. As mentioned above, Redding saw fit to use a sliding alignment sleeve on their comp rifle seaters, but for some reason, not on their comp pistol seaters. It is interesting that Redding has introduced the comp pistol seater for 357 sig, a bottleneck cartridge, yet it appears to have the same no-sleeve design as their other straight wall comp seaters.

I have used Hornady seaters, and can comment on both their design and performance. The Hornady sliding alignment sleeve is used on all their seaters, rifle or pistol. Its sleeve does not engage as much of the case body as the Redding (or Forster) rifle seater sleeves do, yet it does a good job of aligning the bullet and case prior to seating the bullet.

The Hornady seating dies come with two seating plugs for round and flat nose bullets. It is interesting to note that a flat nose seating plug for the Redding comp seater would defeat the alignment purpose of the spring loaded plug; Hornady uses the sliding sleeve to effect alignment, which then allows the use of flat nosed seating plugs without compromising alignment performance. Hornady offers optional micrometer seating depth adjustment screws for all their seating dies (they are interchangeable, so one micrometer screw can be used on multiple seating die bodies).

Both the Hornady seating plug and the alignment sleeve (all that touches bullet or brass) disassemble without tools for cleaning, and reassemble without affecting the settings for crimp or seating depth. Their seater will also crimp while seating if desired.

Hope this helps,

Andy

1858
January 19, 2009, 03:05 PM
Redding saw fit to use a sliding alignment sleeve on their comp rifle seaters, but for some reason, not on their comp pistol seaters.

I think it's because many handgun bullets are lead with bullet lube of some form in an annular groove, and the OD of the case is only marginally larger than the OD of the bullet. I'm curious as to how you could use a sleeve (like Hornady) to align the case AND the bullet without ending up with a big mess.

Also, I'm surprised that Redding is the only company making a Competition Seater Die for .45 Colt/.454 Casull ... hmmm. I do like Hornady's locking ring ... I've just about changed out all my set screw ones for Hornady ones with the two flats.

:)

BigJakeJ1s
January 19, 2009, 11:32 PM
The Hornady's sleeve's lower ID is large enough to accept the case mouth with a slight flair (it is easy to flair the mouth too much to fit in the sleeve). The upper ID is smaller, to match that of the bullet and seater plug. In between the two IDs is the crimp ledge. A ridge in the ID of the die body stops the sleeve from sliding up forever, thus setting the crimp location. The adjustment screw stops the seating plug from sliding up forever, thus setting the seating depth. The only substantial difference between it and the Redding rifle comp seater or Forster seater design is that the Hornady sleeve does not engage as much of the case body, and is not spring loaded.

Here is a cutaway view of the Hornady straight wall pistol dies:
https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_image/product/category_straight_wall_dies.jpg

The confusing part of the image is that the seating plug is shown both in cut-away and in the whole. The die instructions here (http://www.hornady.com/media/new_dimension_custom_grade.pdf) shows it a little better, and also includes an exploded parts diagram at the end.

Andy

1858
January 19, 2009, 11:51 PM
The only substantial difference between it and the Redding rifle comp seater or Forster seater design is that the Hornady sleeve does not engage as much of the case body, and is not spring loaded.


Another BIG difference is that none of the Redding Competition Seater Dies crimp the case in the seating step! The spring in the Redding dies, and the resulting control during the seating (or neck sizing) step is what drew me to them in the first place.

Thanks for the excellent description of the Hornady seater die ... they don't provide much information on their website (I checked). The link to the instruction manual that you posted was very helpful too.

:)

slice38
May 1, 2009, 12:11 PM
I'm putting this question with an older thread but it was the closest I could find to my point.

So, with the Redding competition seating die there are no interchangeable plugs? Does the plug that comes with the die seat JSWC, JMJ and other jacketed bullets with no significant gouging or denting of the bullets?

Thanks,
Mike

1858
May 2, 2009, 01:57 AM
So, with the Redding competition seating die there are no interchangeable plugs? Does the plug that comes with the die seat JSWC, JMJ and other jacketed bullets with no significant gouging or denting of the bullets?

slice38, welcome to THR!! :)

Here's a photo of some .45 Colt loads with 250gr OT RNFP bullets seated using the Redding competition seating die. There's no ring around the ogive from the seater plug and that's a "soft" lead bullet so I very much doubt that the seater plug would mark a copper jacketed bullet.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_45colt.jpg

I don't know if Redding offers different seater plugs for the .45 Colt competition die ... I don't think it's necessary based on the design of the seater plug shown in the photo below.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_seater.jpg

Here are some photos showing the seater plug and the seater plug with two bullets (upside down of course), both from Oregon Trail. One is a 250gr RNFP and the other is a 300gr FP (two cannelures). It may give you some idea as to how the seater plug would work for you.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_250gr.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_300gr.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_250gr_300gr.jpg

:)

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