What components do you use to load 7.62X25?


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Matt Dillon
September 27, 2003, 07:45 PM
Folks, I'm considering purchasing a CZ 52 in the near future, but I'm unsure regarding the reloading components for this round. I plan to purchase a quantity of S&B in 7.62X25, then using a brass catcher, keep my brass and reload it. Does anyone have recommendations regarding reloading components? Especially bullets, as I'd like to use lead if at all possible (cost consideration) but I'm not sure if lead can be shot at the velocities of the 7.62x25. Exactly what components do you use to load this round? Any recipes/load component suggestions are GREATLY appreciated, Thanks so much in advance!

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Uncle Jaque
October 19, 2003, 08:39 PM
Well, Matt - It looks like it's been a while since you posted here, and not a lot of responses.

How've ye been doing?

Have you landed that Czech-O-Matic yet?

The first thing I'd recommend doing before you start reloading for the CZ-52 is to slug your barrel to determine the exact groove diameter of it's bore.

We have had everything from .308" to .312"; mine is .310 and that seems to be about the norm. Needless to say I have not had great accuracy with S&B ammo, with it's .307" bullets!:scrutiny:

I have been using bullets of .311" and .312" diameter in loading for my CZ-52, and they seem to be much more accurate.

These bullets are made for the .32 ACP and .32 H&R Magnum cartridges, and can be obtained via MIDWAY or other suppliers in a variety of weights and configurations.

If your barrel slugs out @ .309" I would not go over .311" bullets, and if .308 stick to the M-1 Carbine family of .308" bullets in the 85 - 110 gr. weights.

As to cast bullets, I also assumed that they would lead badly at these volocities - but I went ahead and tried it anyway.

Having an old cigar-box loaded up with .311" 78-grain hard-cast RN bullets from a LYMAN mould in the stash, I loaded up some casings that I'd made out of .222 Remington Brass (you can do that for this cartridge if you ever run short) with 6.5 gr. of Hercules UNIQUE and corked them off with the little RN cast missiles.

Much to my surprise, not only were they a sweet, reliable (cycling my action despite it's 16.5# recoil spring) accurate little load, but after I ran a magazine full of FMJ milsurp through the pistol, there was no trace of leading to be found!

Given the irregularities of CZ-52 bore sizes, the lack of decent high velocity hollow-point hunting or defensive ammo on the market, and the irregularities, hard primers, and corrosive priming of the milsurp fodder, I think that reloading is the way to go for this weapon.

Save the cheap milsurp stuff for the sandpit and informal "plinking", IMHO.

P95Carry
October 19, 2003, 09:00 PM
Musta missed this thread first time round ...... so easily done.

Have not had my CZ that long .. long enough to add the 16.5# spring tho and obtain a spare firing pin! Had also a way too long wait for some S&B ammo..... got that now, at last.

Now you got me thinkin ...... had already wondered re reloading ... but of course that = more dies ....... could be worth it tho. I have yet to slug the bore on mine.

I use cast bullets a lot and am never too concerned about driving them toward the 2,000 mark ... do that with some experimental cast bullet rifle loads.

I think I will save my brass and consider reloading later ... it's an interesting cal too to play with.

Uncle Jaque
October 19, 2003, 10:05 PM
Yes indeedie; it is an interesting little round to load for!

You can get into a set of LEE dies for around $35, complete with the shell-holder.

That's what I use, and they ain't half bad!

Save as much brass as you can find!

The ol' Czech-O-Matic is known for spitting it's hulls for quite a distance, particularly that S&B stuff, which tends to run a little to the hot side.

Initial testing indicates that it will do much better with cast bullets than we first thought it might.

If you ever do get a setup and run some of those Unique loads through, let me know how they work in your pistolla, won't you?

I have played around with the novel ".224 TIMMS" in the CZ-52, using a 55 gr. .224 bullet encased in a .30 cal. sabot.

They sure crank out some velocity (my chronograph won't pick 'em up due to the seperating sabot following the bullet through the screens at much over 2300 FPS) but accuracy has been disapointing, and I'm not sure if that's a function of the sabot not being big enough for my .310 bore or the rifling is too slow (or fast?) to stabilize the 55 gr. HV round.

I'll try to ATT apic of one of 'em.

P95Carry
October 19, 2003, 10:24 PM
''HERCULES'' !!! 2400 eh ... and in a tin . ye Gods ... are you as old as me!?? :D

I am fascinated by sabotted bullets ... but yet to experiment ... seems like 2 camps ..... ''they work'' - ''they are crap''!!! Guess I'll just have to try ...... maybe sabots much prefer rifle length barrels methinks.

I will, once some brass aquired .... and that should not be too long!! :evil: ..... plus, A small order to Mr lee for dies ... be on the way ...... but not in short order - too much else to do!

I'll see also re a bullet mould ..... but must slug the tube first .. and then also consider a suitable sizing die .... hmmm .... it will take a while but ... in good time I will try and post any results.

Haven't checked load data as yet but wonder if this round would be happy on a Blue Dot diet ... or even H-110. Not sure yet what the pressure limits are ... and seems probably not good anyways to reach too far into the fast powders..... but fast enough to suit tube length however.

Uncle Jaque
October 19, 2003, 10:49 PM
Actually, Chris, I've been having pretty good luck with Red Dot.

Someone else reccomended Blue Dot and I would be a good sport and try it, too - except I've got about 3 magazinesfull of powder between what I have acculmulated over the years and what I inherited from my late "Pappy", from whom I learned most of what I know about shooting and reloading.

After I use all that up I might consider branching out a little.

Powder in tins? Oh yeah! You oughtta see what I've got stashed away down there!

One rectangular tin can of Bullseye has a yellow, lithiographed label and I'm not sure but what Pappy bought it new back in '32, and has had it ever since. Isn't that about when they came out with it?
This could be part of the first batch!

He never was a big fan of bullseye, being rather more partial to Unique, as I continue to be.

I considered scanning it to show to unbelievers, but I'm not sure that laying a half-full tin of 70-year old Bullseye on a scanner bed and lighting it up would be all that intelligent a thing to do.

If anyone really begs, I might dump it out into something first.

The 2400 load given on that graphic was a tenative starting load, BTW and was too aneimic to work the slide all the way.
Bullets were hitting the target 50 yds. downrange with the sabots still attached (makes an interesting shaped hole) - a clear indication of substandard velocity.

Since then I have stoked them up nearly full of Red Dot, and I'm here to tell ya, those little dandies step right out there smartly!

P95Carry
October 19, 2003, 11:01 PM
Jaque .... Hmmm .. Red Dot eh ....... well, I guess altho it's a fairly fast powder it is at least some ways slower than the Bullseye category!! OTOH it is maybe 10 or more points faster on the powder burn scale than the Unique.

However .. more I consider this, the more I think that the CZ tube ''deserves''something fast enough .. and I remember a load i used years ago in my Redhawk for long range compo's ....... it was 8.5 Red Dot shoving a 240 grn keith SWC cast. That sorta ''lobbed'' the bullet but it was a good grouper. Bit of a ''44 spl'' kinda load I guess.

I digress ... seems like I will consider this end of the powder spectrum .... thx for the info. As yet tho ... some ways off from testing! I will get some dies organized tho this week i think.

later

Clark
October 20, 2003, 02:53 PM
I have experimented with:
AA#9
LONGSHOT
Ramshot Enforcer [AA#9]
H110
N110
N105
XMP5744
LIL'GUN
Power Pistol
85 gr. bullets
110 gr. bullets
M1 carbine tracers
S&B brass
Starline brass
CZ52 pistols
Tokarev pistols
7.62x25mm / .308 Win insert in a bolt rifle

I now like Tokarev pistols, S&B brass, Power Pistol, and 110 gr. bullets.
But S&B brass is not as easy to get as just buying big bag from Starline, and is almost as good.

My Lee dies will not form brass, and when I complain, Lee tells me "not for forming". So there goes the 9mm mag brass or .223 brass neck down possibilities.

Right now I am shopping for a floating pilot 7.62x25mm reamer. It looks like $175 and I am too cheap to do it.
Here is the Tokarev barrel from Parker Hale .308 barrel

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=465695

P95Carry
October 20, 2003, 07:21 PM
Hmmm ... Power Pistol eh .... only a tad slower than Unique. Looks like when I get to it .. I shall have some interesting experimenting to do.:)

P95Carry
October 20, 2003, 10:17 PM
Decided to get that bore sized on my CZ-52 ... and to be honest from what had been said expected it to be somewhat oversize but .... checked and checked and it seems to be .308! Which is pleasing.

Did notice tho that the Tokarev S&B ammo seemed undersize, like around .307 or so ... but maybe my tolerances here are lucky compared to some .... it'll get shot at weekend so we'll see.

I shall get some dies on order now tho ... and see what bullet moulds i can find.

Clark
October 21, 2003, 01:27 AM
It looks like the Tokarev makes the short list of .307" bullets:
http://www.reloadbench.com/specs/form.php?table_name=specs&page=0&function=search

Clark
October 21, 2003, 01:42 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

It looks like the Tokarev makes the short list of .307" bullets:
http://www.reloadbench.com/specs/form.php?table_name=specs&page=0&function=search

Power Pistol looks like it is a fast powder at low pressures, but it is a relatively slow powder at very high pressures. At very high pressures, Power Pistol can get more velocity than LONGSHOT or AA#9 with less pressure.

For those not looking for ultimate performance, H110, like power pistol, does not have burn rate run away at high pressure, but H110 starts out allot slower. The problem is not enough H110 will fit to get the highest velocity, but certainly more velocity than factory ammo with conservative pressures.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

Steve Smith
October 21, 2003, 07:18 PM
50 grain .224 flat base bullets and as much Unique as you can fit in the case. And a sabot of course.

Clark
November 14, 2003, 07:10 PM
The reason I stopped handloading the CZ52 and went to the Tokarev, despite what the load books say, the Tokarev is stronger.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=398296

Anvil_Jenkins
December 12, 2003, 05:01 PM
Dave Kiff at Pacific precision may be able to shave that 175.00 price tag, he doesnt charge extra for specials.

all reamers are live pilot.
(541)826-5808 is Dave's phone number

www.reamerrentals.com rents his reamers too



Bill

Gewehr98
December 13, 2003, 08:03 PM
Because I'll let you in on a little secret, it wasn't any load one finds in load books from commercial powder manufacturers. Matter of fact, it was one of his homemade proof loads. Search the threads here, you'll find that he purposely tested that gun to destruction with an overcharge. I've purposely blown up an 8mm Carcano with an overcharge too, didn't prove anything other than the gun wasn't built to have such an insanely over-pressured round fired through it. I don't try to fear-monger people away from Carcanos based on that, either. :rolleyes:

For my own CZ-52, I use:

Starline Brass
Winchester Small Pistol primers
Hornady .308 90gr XTP/HP bullets
Accurate Arms #5 - per the AA manuals, I'll not repeat it here.

I've also used Sierra 86gr bullets up over 1600fps, without a problem. The brass ends up in the next county, so some sort of hanging screen mesh isn't a bad idea to the right of your shooting position. ;)

Clark
December 14, 2003, 06:28 PM
Gewehr98,
What if you suspected the load books and magazines were wrong when they wrote that the CZ52 is stronger than the Tokarev, and when you wrote the load books, the said they were just repeating what THEY read?



What would you do to staighten out this question?


I think what happened was someone erroniously assumed that the Czech ammo was higher pressure and there fore the CZ52 is stronger.
But I don't know, it is hard to find the head waters of this urban legend.
It may come from:
From the U. S. Army Foreign Science and Technology Center's publication titled "Small Arms Identification and Operation Guide - Eurasian Communist Countries" 1970, (FSTC-CW-07-03-70), page 211, Table XI, Cartridge Data and Color Codes, in reference to 7.62 x 25 mm pistol ball type P;

"Do not use Czechoslovak-made ammunition in TT-33 pistols."

Should I write George Bush and ask for a task force?

Matt Dillon
February 19, 2004, 12:44 PM
Folks, I have some Berry's plated 112 grain .310 plated bullets, and was wondering if anyone might have a load for these for the CZ 52. Anyone have any other recipes that they have proven to be successful in the CZ 52? Any advice andhelp is GREATLY appreciate, Thanks!

Third_Rail
February 19, 2004, 05:59 PM
I'm looking into getting a CZ-52, but only if I can find some .308 FMJ pointed bullets to load it with, not for CCW, but for plinking on steel targets.. I wonder if they'd go through 1/4" steel?

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