[fourdollarbill]

I had recieved a free box of Hornady 180gr HP/XTP bullets. I never loaded this bullet and cannot find a recipe for a snub. I would use it for a 637 or a 642 S&W 1 7/8" barrell. Since I may use the bullet for self defence I could use a +P load. I would use Bullseye for the short barrell. Any info would help.
Thanks.

[rcmodel]

The reason you can't find any loads is because it isn't safe.
It would be very unwise to try to load 180 grain jacketed bullets in a standard pressure, or +P .38 Special.

Bore friction would be excessively high, and velocity very low.

The chance of sticking a bullet in the barrel would be great!

IMO: You need a .357 Magnum to safely use those bullets!

IMO2: Bullseye would be a dangerous powder to use with that heavy a bullet anyway.
Much too fast.
It needs a slower push to get it moving, even in a .357 Mag.

rc

[fourdollarbill]

Thank you for that important info!
Free stuff can be dangerous...

[Galil5.56]

fourdollarbill,

There is data.

I have published +P .38 Special data for 180 grain bullets from Hodgdon, circa 1994. Usually Hodgdon will denote "L" for lead, and in this case they do not, it simply states "180 GR".

The data for a 180 grain bullet is:

H4227 11 grains 890 fps 21,200 CUP
HS7/WW 571 7.6 grains 885 fps 21,600 CUP
HS6/WW540 6.7 grains 870 fps 20,200 CUP

I can scan and send it to you to verify the source. There is also 200 grain lead data from this and old Dupont guides, that with the help of IMR/Hodgdon labs could perhaps be tweaked with their guidance.

[rcmodel]

More recent loading data finds even 158 grain Jacketed data missing for standard pressure .38 Spc.

There have been some "Series of Unfortunate Events" with heavy jacketed .38 Spl. loads.

rc

[ants]

Is anyone thinking that HS6/7 or 4227 will still be burning 5 inches after leaving a 1-7/8" barrel? Those are very slow powders that keep burning as the bullet travels down the barrel. Slow powders work better with heavy bullets in barrels long enough to utilize the slow burn. I'll bet that old data wasn't chronographed from a snub barrel.

fourdollarbill, I'm kinda thinking that those bullets just won't ever cut the mustard in that snub gun. Save them for some future revolver (or lever action rifle!).

[Old Fuff]

At one time both the .38 S&W and .38 Special cartridges were available with a 200 gr. LEAD bullet. Elmer Keith's favorite .38 bullet was one of his own design that weighed 173 grains, but it too was cast from lead, and he never recommended it for use in a snubby. In any case RCmodel is right when it comes to jacketed bullets.

Hornady's 180gr HP/XTP bullets were designed to be used for hunting medium-sized game (think "deer") when combined with a heavy load in a .357 Magnum, and fired fram a long-barreled/heavy frame revolver.

[zxcvbob]

You want 4.0 grains of Bullseye with that bullet, and an OAL of 1.55". Velocity will be a little less than 700 fps out of a snubbie, so don't expect them to expand.

Should be a safe (but not very good) load even out of a 20" rifle barrel.

5.5 grains of Power Pistol would be a better choice.

Data derived using QuickLOAD. I gave it a target chamber pressure of 18500 psi, which is at the upper end of +P (I think 18500 used to be standard pressure for .38 Special and +P was 20000 but they lowered it.) I would find another use for those bullets, like in a .357 Magnum carbine. Hope this helps.

[dagger dog]

Bullseye, has a well deserved reputation of being a powder to use with caution, double charges are a fact, it is a great powder when used within its boundries, but as previous posters have warned 180 gr bullets are out of the burn rate for Bullseye.

[rcmodel]

How does Quick-Load allow for excess barrel / cylinder gap, or other variables that lets too much pressure get away from you?

rc

[243winxb]

you want 4.0 grains of bullseye with that bullet, and an oal of 1.55". Velocity will be a little less than 700 fps out of a snubbie, so don't expect them to expand.

Should be a safe "kaboom"

[zxcvbob]

By fudging the barrel length a little. I've found it to be incredibly accurate when I've compared the results with a chronometer.

I agree with you, it's a poor combination of components. But that barrel is so short there shouldn't be much risk at all of a stuck bullet with any fast-burning powder unless he forgets to drop the powder.

[243winxb]

The Alliant Powder Guide lists for the 38 Special +P a load using a 160gr JSP Bullet. Federal 100 primer. 3.7 gr Bullseye MAXIMUM +P Load. Minium OAL of 1.435" Out of a 5.6" barrel velocity is listed as 820 FPS. PSI 17100.

[ArchAngelCD]

I wouldn't and don't load anything heavier than a 158gr bullet for my short barrel .38 Special revolvers. (for all of the above reasons) If you have a Carbine in 38/357 those 180gr XTP bullets will work great. They are even useful for woods carry loads in a 4" .357 Magnum with the right powder.

If you don't have those guns try trading someone the 180gr XTP bullets for 158gr or 140gr XTP bullets. (you will like the 140gr XTP in a snub nose revolver)

[Remo-99]

Pushing a 180gr bullet with bullseye in a 38special, is like trying to tow a train carriage with a pickup truck, some combinations just don't work well.
Bullseye works well with lighter loads, slower powders work better with heavier loads.

[fourdollarbill]

Very good info all. But for the price of bullets I'll take the cautious road. I'm not a very daring person. I was thinking of a 357 Marlin lever some day so i'll wrap them up and wait. Thanks again for the info.

[rcmodel]

Sounds like a wise decision!

rc

[Seafarer12]

Good idea. 180's out of a 357 rifle are pretty stout. It is a good hunting combo.

[Galil5.56]

4dollar,

Just because published data no longer exists, does not mean its DANGEROUS. The propellants listed by Hodgdon are safe for the application, but may not be optimal for a given situation. Big difference between preference, opinion and safety. See as much 220 grain 06 data as you once did?... Does its lack mean that now it's DANGEROUS? A lot of data comes and goes with whims and trends, like a lot of consumer products.

I have no doubt the velocities achieved with the data will be much lower than stated (as is a lot of Hodgdon handgun data). I provided data w/o comment, as non first hand speculation is just that, especially since this is lab derived data.

My personal view; I use nothing but lead in .38 Special, and no heavier than 158 grains. My opinion is a 180 grain lead or jacketed bullet is not what I would want to regularly load, but given the slowish, to very slowish burning rate of the propellants given, I might try a few especially since I chrono everything, and love to see how posted data translates into my situation. Can't question your decision, and wish you continued good reloading.

[243winxb]

Bullseye powder should only be used for light to midrange loads IMO. A slight change of .1gr can make a difference when trying to load to maximum. Change a component or use range brass and you can buldge a case real easy with that maximun load. Its a great powder if used correctly.

[running iron]

I just got back from shooting some Sierra 180 f.p. with 4.4 gr. of 231 that I loaded. I also shot some 125 gr. Hornady XTP with 5.6 grs. of 231. Both were shot from a model 85 Taurus at 25 yards. I was hitting a 10"x10" steel plate with no trouble. Both had a good kick but the 180 gr. Sierra had more power at the target than the 125 gr. Hornady. I was looking for penetration and didn't care much about expansion. I don't use the 38 much but if my life was in danger, I would feel good that I had the 180 gr. loaded to the reasonable max. It is not a target load but is accurate in my gun. Most people might not agree, but I'm sure it's not a dangerous load to the shooter. Just a counter point, boys!

[bullseye308]

4$, didn't you recently get a GP-100?