[Old Fuff]

COLT IS SELLING OUT! :what:

Well not exactly. What they are doing is liquidating their Colt Factory Firearms Archive Collection. That means literally hundreds of rare and unique experimental models, prototypes, mock-ups, cut-away’s, and much, much more.

There are guns of all kinds – pistols, revolvers, (both single and double action) as well as second generation cap & balls). I was fascinated and amazed at some of the things I saw. Many I suspect, were never seen outside the Colt factory, so this is a unique experience because after they are auctioned off they will most likely be in private collections and off limits to the public. Therefore THIS IS YOUR ONE AND ONLY CHANCE TO SEE WHAT IS THERE!

You only have a short time. The auction will be held tomorrow (January 18, 2009, 3:30 pm PST) at Greg Martin Auctions in California. If you log in on to the link listed below you can view what is up for auction. Be sure to click on the thumbnail pictures so that you can see a larger one, and you can download those larger pictures to your computer. If you want you can follow the auction to see what the winning bids are, but I strongly suggest that you go as soon as possible to view the collection before the frenzy starts. For those that are interested in Colt handguns there is something for everyone – and then some. There is also an excellent collection of original frontier era Colt’s going on the block, including a “Texas” model Patterson and a Walker.

Beats looking at the boob-tube by far, and you might learn something.

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=16712

[ArchAngelCD]

Oh just great, all those guns are going to be bought up and hidden away buy some rich collector. It's just not right they hide them away like that but there's nothing that can be done about it once they are privately owned.

I just looked at the auction, there must be several Million Dollars worth of guns there!!!!

[Peter M. Eick]

WOW!

That is absolutely wild that they are letting it go like that. They must be pretty desperate for money.

[pwrtool45]

They've done something similar before, haven't they? Didn't they get rid of a bunch of the company "collection" in exchange for rights to build the Colt 2000?

Wonder if they'll do that again. :D

[pwrtool45]

They must be pretty desperate for money.

Nah, they won't be desperate for money until July.

[Old Fuff]

I can't afford any of those guns either, but do what I’m going to, and it won’t cost you a cent. :)

1. Go to the item you’re interested in and click on the small thumbnail in the item listing.

2. A new page will come up. Expand it to full size.

3. You will see a larger picture, an item description, and possibly more thumbnails on the left margin.

4. At the top of the picture you just brought up at the top it says “larger picture.” Click on that.

5. A larger picture will come up. Place your cursor somewhere in the middle of that, click with the right button on your mouse. A menu will pop up.

6. Click on “Save picture to” and a copy of the picture will be saved in “My Pictures.” You can go back and expand and copy any or all of the thumbnails on the left margin you see in step #3

7. You can also highlight text with your mouse and then cut & paste it to a page in your word processor.

All of this will work in Windows XP and Vista. Not sure about others, but if there are other or better ways to do this someone will chime in.

Later all of this can be saved to a scrapbook or folder. I’d rather have the gun too – but this is better then nothing, and it may be your only chance. Do make a point to take it. :cool:

[parisite]

That Colt single action ser.# 1 is awesome.:what:

[Colt Smith]

FWIW, The terms and conditions you have to agree with to use the site specifically forbid taking pictures from the website. I don't know if there is any way for them to determine that. If there are any web techies here let us know. I'm guilty of snagging pics all the time. If they find out you will be barred from the site and auction proceedings. They do have some nice stuff. You never know with auctions. You may just get something nobody is paying much attention to at a great price. Thanks Old Fuff for the "heads-up" on this auction.

[Eightball]

I just saved a bunch of the "SN #1" 1873.

Damn. The FIRST production pistol, #1, of what is quite possibly one of the most famous firearms in history.......and they're selling it.

[pwrtool45]

FWIW, The terms and conditions you have to agree with to use the site specifically forbid taking pictures from the website. I don't know if there is any way for them to determine that

The HTTP/GET requests are almost identical. The "Accept" field in the header varies on "right-click,save-as" as opposed to just loading the page. (I did only checked in Firefox.) That policy is probably in place to give proxibid legal room for use against folks who are using wget to download the auction images in bulk. I'd guess. Maybe. "Here's our auction images. But don't download them. Well, again. Your browser already downloaded them once, and they're in your cache. But don't use them. Except to give us money" only inspires sympathy. Obviously, whoever asked the company lawers to write that doesn't quite understand this intarwebs thing.

That's beside the point, though. I didn't even get a "by using this site you agree to give us your first-born children, blah blah blah" EULA. Click-through EULAs not enough anymore? We got ninja EULAs now? "You agreed to our TOS last *year*! In your sleep! Ha HA!"

Anyway. There's no "Zonoes-Stealin-Images:yes" header.

[Old Fuff]

I copied a few pictures on a "fair use" basis, meaning they are for my personal use and not reproduction - expecially for any commercial purpose. I think anyone can do that. I'll know, if or when I'm barred from the site. So far there hasen't been any reaction.

[Eightball]

When I get barred from bidding over $110,000 for that SN#1, it'll be a sad day. :P

[wheelgunslinger]

Phenomenal finds in there, Fuff.

John Wesley Hardin's business card really intrigued me.
Some of those things are amazing and extremely rare. Wish I had been born to a rich family, now. Oh well.

It is a shame that we'll never see this stuff again.

[Old Fuff]

If you really read the descriptions you’ll soon realize that what they have is most (maybe all) of Colt's planed or proposed innovations from about 1945 to present. If they had actually made and marketed a lot of that stuff they'd be in clover today. I even came across a prototype that had some of the construction features in the new just-now-introduced Ruger pocket revolver.

Colt's present management has lost me. :confused: If I had been in charge I would first have taken all of these guns, and used them to put out a coffee table book - and made money off of the book. Then after the book had created a lot of interest - and only then - I would have auctioned off the guns with a lot of pre-auction publicity. That in turn would have generated more bidders and probably higher bids.

I also noticed that the same people - who are obviously well heeled collectors or dealers, are making the present high bids on various guns. Since the auction is apparently not well advertised beyond a certain circle of people (I only found out yesterday afternoon when a friend tipped me) I expect we will see some of these guns for sale on different websites at notably higher prices. I suspect there are some folks who would prefer that I didn't let the cat out of the bag.

[JohnBT]

They've lost me too.


"FWIW, The terms and conditions you have to agree with to use the site specifically forbid taking pictures from the website."

I didn't agree to anything, a google search took me directly to the SAA#1 page. Why was I searching for the #1 SAA? Easy, I'd seen the pic posted on another site. I would think they'd like a little free auction publicity, but what do I know.

John

[Old Fuff]

Not sure, but I believe that if you sign up to be a bidder, and open an account by providing a credit card number, the "terms and conditions" thing comes up. Since you aren't a qualified bidder, but rather a visitor, I think you're home free. In any case I'm not going to worry about it.

[adweisbe]

Can I get a link to the SAA ser # 1?

[Old Fuff]

Go to the following link, and then scroll down to item #51.

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=16712&ipp=100#Top

[DocBoCook]

I just wish I had money enough to make these part of my private collection. Which would only come into existance, once i purchased them

[trbon8r]

I'm watching the auction live on web cast. Selling price for the 1873 Army .45 Serial number 1 was $750,000!!!! That's about $749,000 too rich for my blood.

I'm just hoping I might pick up a decent Government Model, or a Police Positive. It's not looking good though. There are some folks with some serious money in the audience.

Thanks to Old Fuff for bringing this auction to our attention. It really is amazing to watch!

[trbon8r]

Damn, I tried to bid on #103, the hard chrome Delta Elite. They are moving so fast, they closed the auction out before they got my bid. I submitted my bid and they closed out the auction a couple seconds later. I would have paid more than the gun sold for. :(

[Old Fuff]

You have to go well forward, and not wait until almost the last minute. There are more interesting pieces coming so see if you can find them now.

Yes, the do move fast... :what:

[Old Fuff]

trbon8r:

I'm just hoping I might pick up a decent Government Model, or a Police Positive. It's not looking good though.

I notice that some items are selling at the low end of the estimate, or sometimes well below it. I wouldn't give up. Your best chance is to pick something that isn't particularly popular, and the Police Positive Special's meet that description. So go shopping. :)

[trbon8r]

Thank you sir! I'm still trying. I wanted #155 the Single Action .22, but I think the price was a bit steep. Good luck to you as well.

[Old Fuff]

This is an Old Fuff trick... :evil:

Go to the top of the page and notice that at the upper right you can make a search. For example, if you put in the search term "Police Positive" (without the " ") you will get a list of all the Police Positive revolvers in the auction. Of course you can also use such terms as: "22" or "Government Model" or whatever.

[bannockburn]

Old Fuff

Thanks for the auction information. Some very interesting history up for sale here. I remember seeing a photo of Item Number 51, the Colt Single Action Army, caliber .45, 7 1/2 " barrel, serial number 1. On page 117 of the 1951 Fifth Edition of The Gun Digest, this gun was pictured, along with the inscription that it was from the collection of John S. du Mont. Looking at the provenance provided by the auction firm, du Mont acquired it from Fred Mills in exchange for a Colt double rifle, in 1948. What is really amazing is that Mills had purchased the gun in 1925 for the princely sum of $4.00! Now some 84 years later, it sells for $750,000. This is better than the Antiques Roadshow!

[Old Fuff]

What is really amazing is that Mills had purchased the gun in 1925 for the princely sum of $4.00! Now some 84 years later, it sells for $750,000. This is better than the Antiques Roadshow!

Yes, (sniff) but at $750,000 it didn't come up the the auction house estimate of $500,000 to $1,000,000. :eek: We live in hard times... (sob!) :D

[Big Bill]

Dang - this makes me sick! I can't even look!!!

[351 WINCHESTER]

I heard a story in my local gunshop years ago about Colt owing about $250K to Eugine Stoner. Colt could not pay him as they were either bankrupt or in receivership. Anyway, as I recall, one of their ceo's told him they couldn't pay him and sugguested that he go down in the basement and take whatever he wanted. I saw pictures (Poloraid) of Mr. Stoner with some of the guns he took in liew of payment. He had just about every (maybe all) prototypes/variants of the ar15, m16. God only knows what else he walked away with as Colt could have cared less. As the story goes Colt gave him a number of "shopping carts" to put whatever weapons he wanted into. Stoner could have walked away with anything he wanted (that's what I was told) as the ceo wasn't "into" guns and probably didn't have a clue as to their historic/collector value.

[Old Fuff]

Well this is for my ol' buddy Hawk.

They just sold a nickel plated, 3" Python - valued at $1,200 to $1,500... for $6,000! :eek:

But it did come with a factory letter.. ;)

[trbon8r]

I got shut out. Deals were scarce, with the big money bidders prevailing. I guess to them it's no big deal if they pay 25 to 50 percent over market value. :(

Not only that, I was disappointed in the condition of some of the display guns once I really started looking close at the pictures. So many of them seemed awful beat up, and neglected looking. I understand the test mules being beat up, but the display guns, some of which had rust on them?!?!

I had a great time though, and will take it for what it was, which was a chance to see some rare prototypes that will likely never see the light of day again.

[Old Fuff]

Well they are buying one-of-a-kind guns from the Colt factory collection, and that adds considerably to their value. But consider this:

***Colt Experimental and Test Government Model MK IV Series '70 Semi-Automatic Pistol, with Factory Letter

Serial no. 70G58898. .45ACP caliber, 5-inch barrel, slide and barrel breech markings include "MK IV Series '70." Blued finish, the varnished walnut grips with nickel-finish rampant colt logo medallion inlays. Metal rimmed tag attached to triggerguard states "10,000 rnd endurance gun Drop-tested." On other side, "Do Not Shoot Hammer Modified."
Condition: Very good to fine. Handling marks, scratches, moderate wear. 95% blue. Bright bore. Grips fine.
Notes: Retained by factory as experimental and test pistol. This modern firearm cannot be purchased by California residents who do not possess a Federal Firearms License.
Provenance: Colt Factory Archives Firearms Collection.
Estimate: 600 - 850

In the end it went for $500 - Not cheap, but as quality 1911 pistols go, not too shabby.

I didn't get anything either, except for a lot of knowledge - and that's what I expected to get. I know a lot more coming out then I did going in.

[Colt Smith]

The terms about swiping pics did come up when I was registering to be a bidder. Didn't actually bid on anything I wanted. I didn't have the pockets to compete with the other bidders. I thought that Python prototype (swiped pics below :evil:) was real nice. I wish they had produced that gun as was. Some other yummy stuff too but a lot of pretty common stuff too. Fun to see all that rare stuff. Thanks again Old Fuff.

[wheelgunslinger]

Yeah, this wasn't an eBay or Gunbroker auction. This was the real deal. No sniping, no hand wringing over last minute bids. It's likely that most prequalified bidders had a catalog and opportunity to examine the weapons before auction. So, they knew what they wanted beforehand, and the auction moved along nicely.
This was an auction for the big leaguers.

I like your idea about resale, Fuff. I hope that's what happens.

I thought the #1 SAA went cheap, as did the last Hartford Colt at 150k.

[GUNKWAZY]

I thought that Python prototype (swiped pics below ) was real nice. I wish they had produced that gun as was. Fun to see all that rare stuff. Thanks again Old Fuff.


FYI: It's now owned and operated by GUNKWAZY :D


Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

[Hawk]

Well this is for my ol' buddy Hawk.

They just sold a nickel plated, 3" Python - valued at $1,200 to $1,500... for $6,000!

3" Python folks are a breed apart.

I was looking for the infamous .41 Mag Python. If it was there I missed it.

The whole thing seemed to have a melancholy backdrop - can't be good that the family heirlooms are getting auctioned off.

[Old Fuff]

Jeff (GUNKWAZY):

Got a question. Were you aware of of the auction before I started the thread on Saturday, January 17th, or did you find out about it on The High Road?

I'm delighted to know that you did get the Python prototype. :)

[GUNKWAZY]

Yes, I was watching and checking the catalog for about a week and was very happy nobody was talking about it.
I almost fell out of my chair when i saw your post the day before.

I got the Python number 3 as you already know.

I actually was lucky enough to pick up the Snub nosed experimental prototype Python 38 special that led to the Diamondback. That was my Number one pick of the auction.

And, I actually bought several other protos as well.
To say the least, I'm EXCITED :D

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

[Old Fuff]

I was looking for the infamous .41 Mag Python. If it was there I missed it.

Despite rumors, a .41 Magnum never existed. Smith & Wesson deliberately designed the cartridge to have a .410” bullet so that the round would be too fat to fit in any revolver Colt was building at that time. Colt on the other hand was working on an updated .41 Long Colt that would have used a .401” bullet, around specifications advocated by Bill Jordan and “Skeeter” Skelton. A prototype revolver for that cartridge was included in the auction, but it wasn’t a Python.

There is justice in the world. If S&W had stayed with the .401” bullet they could have chambered the cartridge in a later L-frame. Undoubtedly this would have proven to be more popular with both law enforcement and other users then the .41 Magnum that required an N-frame. Colt on the other hand, missed a real opportunity when they didn’t bring out their version of a .40 caliber cartridge. :banghead:

[Old Fuff]

I almost fell out of my chair when i saw your post the day before.

Well if a friend hadn't given me a telephone call this thread would have never happened, and the last thing I was thinking about was Python prototypes. I'm glad things worked out. :)

[krs]

Old Fuff, You need not worry over your having spread the news to the detriment of anyone. Quit with self recrimination.

I've been a registered and qualified bidder in most of the proxybid auctions for well over a year and I'm sure that many thousands of other people are as well. They send out notices of upcoming events to all of their registered users who check the box indicating a desire to receive them.

Also, word of this one was spread far and wide amongst the forums that are more collecting oriented than The High Road.

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, You need not worry over your having spread the news to the detriment of anyone. Quit with self recrimination.

Gee, I never thought about it in that context. To me it was so important that our members and others who follow The High Road know what was about to happen that I would have posted the news regardless. The thought that I might undercut some bidders never came to mind.

My focus, then and now, was the incredible resource that this could provide Colt researchers and other interested parties. Generally these sorts of factory collections are closely held with access being restricted to inside personal. Now part of Colt’s collection was going to be laid out for public viewing, and the usually well-informed Old Fuff didn’t have a clue.

I also consider it unfortunate and short-sighted on they’re part, that Colt didn’t first let an experienced researcher, inside or outside of the company, author a research book so that the insights the collection offered wouldn’t be limited to an auction catalog and a one-time event. It is sad when individuals outside of the company seem to have more interest and concerned about its past history then those who own and run it. :(

[krs]

OK, sorry. I took it from your posting that you WERE concerned over someone feeling that by posting you'd spoiled their chances somehow.

I agree that it was a lost opportunity to enrich the scope of knowledge about the company history and activities.

I was fascinated to see the two examples of a collaberative effort to come with a target pistol to be marketed under the Colt logo but manufactured in China by Norinco. I think I would have bought one of those except that it sounded as though they might not work. The descriptions contained wording like "mechanism incomplete or needs adjustment".

[rswartsell]

I was surprised at some of the prices, some were almost what I would call reasonable. Especially considering the provenance.

Smith and Wesson definitely seems to have more of an eye toward preservation of history, because of Mr. Jinks?

[Dr.Rob]

That coil spring New Service went for only $650???? That was one of the coolest items, not to mention the Vektor looking 1903 improved prototype.

[Old Fuff]

Smith and Wesson definitely seems to have more of an eye toward preservation of history, because of Mr. Jinks?

Smith & Wesson has the benefit of having an exceptional man combined with astute management. :cool:

[Old Fuff]

The descriptions contained wording like "mechanism incomplete or needs adjustment".

This is not too unusual in a prototype or a concept sample that's submitted to illustrate a proposal. If interest is shown, something better will be constructed. But anyway I was also taken aback by the previously unknown China connection. :eek:

[Old Fuff]

That coil spring New Service went for only $650????

That's one piece I would have liked to examine. It's not hard to understand how the coil mainspring would have worked, but I'd like to know what they did about tensioning the rebound lever. :confused:

[rswartsell]

Smith & Wesson has the benefit of having an exceptional man combined with astute management.

That is indeed sad as Colt has (had?) at least as much to contribute to the historical record.:(

[GUNKWAZY]

Quote:
That coil spring New Service went for only $650????

That's one piece I would have liked to examine. It's not hard to understand how the coil mainspring would have worked, but I'd like to know what they did about tensioning the rebound lever.

Are you guys talking about the experimental semi-auto 22 revolver ?

If that's what you're talking about, I bought that as well.

I'll get you guys some nice pictures when it finally arrives.

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

[Lovesbeer99]

OK I'm late to the party (cause I was out shooting) and looked at the inventory. I'm impressed as everyone else, but I have a question. Some of the auctions are listed as "sold" and some as 'passed'. What does 'passed' mean? Can I still get one of these?

[GUNKWAZY]

What lot's are marked passed ?
The only ones passed are probably the Single Actions that did NOT meet reserves.

I believe you can contact Greg Martin auctions and make an offer.
FYI: they are closed today. Temps answering phones.


Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

[Old Fuff]

I believe that they passed some items that didn't have a pre-auction bid. They may or may not have come back later and picked them up. I have no idea what they might do with anything left over, but it wouldn't hurt to call and ask.

[Dr.Rob]

Gunkwazy we were talking about lot #440, a New Service 45 cal revolver converted to a coil spring.

[GUNKWAZY]

Thanks DR Rob for the clarification.
Not a problem. When I saw you were talking about springs, I thought you may have been talking about lot 384 that also sold for $650.
Sorry about that.

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)