Hi-cap mags for bolt-actions?


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MagKnightX
September 28, 2003, 02:50 AM
I know that for semi-auto rifles any capacity above ten in a post-1994 manufacture magazine is illegal for sale to civilians, but can high-capacity magazines (more than ten) be made for a bolt-action rifle, assuming that they can not be used in any existing semi-automatic, or are at the very least not designed for a semi?

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Preacherman
September 28, 2003, 03:34 AM
Robar (for a substantial fee) will make you a custom .308 bolt-action rifle that uses M14 magazines - 20 rounds on tap... When I did the Thunder Ranch General Purpose Rifle course in 2001, a guy brought one of these to the course. $4,000 and change, but it was a lovely rifle!

I understand there are other gunsmiths who will do this conversion on some rifles. Ask around.

BTR
September 28, 2003, 02:44 PM
No, you can't make new ones. However, you can adapt old ones, as long as they can still be used in the gun they were designed for.

Ian
September 28, 2003, 10:36 PM
There are 20- and 25-round mags out there for Mausers, made by the Germans during WWI. They're permantently attached and have to be fed by stripper, but they do hold a lot. My gunsmith is working on a replacement floorplate for a .308 Mauser of mine that'll allow it to feed from FAL magazines. He's got it made and working, and is in the process of tweaking it to make it reliable. I'll post more info when I get the gun back...

CleverNickname
September 28, 2003, 11:01 PM
It's legal to make (for example), a tube-fed lever action that can hold more than 10 rounds in the tube. So theoretically I think it might be legal. However, I think you might want to get an ATF opinion on it before you make anything. Of course, they would immediately become post-ban mags if someone made a semi-auto they'd fit in.

Benjamin
September 28, 2003, 11:46 PM
CleverName - my understanding is that the exception to the 10 round provisions of the '94 omnibus crime bill apply only to rimfire tubular magazines.

c_yeager
September 29, 2003, 02:41 AM
I thought the magazine limit applied only to semiautomatic weapons with detachable magazines. This of course doesnt count any state laws that your locals may have put into place. Just for refference the Winchester Legacy in .357 has a capacity of 12 rounds of .357 (more with .38spl).

Skofnung
September 29, 2003, 03:20 AM
A 15 or 20 round magazine for an Enfield would be SWEET! Not so very useful, but it would be sweet nonetheless.

Deadman
September 29, 2003, 08:13 AM
I must admit to ordering a couple of 30 round Bulgarian AK mags ( haven't recieved them yet ) for my 7.62x39 chambered Enfield carbine. :cool:

c_yeager
September 29, 2003, 09:51 AM
http://www.snipercountry.com/M14_Magazines.htm

It appears that its possible to convert Remington 700s to accept m14 magazines. Sounds like fun just for the gee-wiz factor.

Benjamin
September 29, 2003, 02:56 PM
c_yeagar

I am not a lawyer, nor do I dispense legal advice. If anyone has a legal question, take it to a competent lawyer.

That said:

The '94 crime bill has several different portions which relate to firearms in different ways.

One aspect restricts domestic manufacture of any magazine holding in excess of 10 rounds to LE/Military. Exception made for tubular magazine for .22 rimfire.

A separate section deals with evil features on rifles. In order for a rifle to be subject to these provisions, it must be a semi-auto accepting detachable mags. A rifle which is semi auto but not accepting detachable mags, such as a Garand, shouldn't be subject to the evil feature provisions. [i.e. legal to have a flash hider, baoy lug and folding stock]


I may be mistaken. The provisions may have changed since I last read them. Do not take this as legal advice.

Best

c_yeager
September 30, 2003, 04:21 AM
Regardless of wether or not it is legal to MAKE a new magazine that takes over ten rounds, it is perfectly legal to modufy a rifle to accept existing preban magazines of any size (assuming of course that in the process you do not exceed the "evil feature" limit of your rifle thus making it an "assault weapon). Needless to say that since bolt action rifles are not effected by the 94 AWB there should be no legal problem at all with converting them to accept hi-caps.

Nightcrawler
September 30, 2003, 05:01 AM
What about those Uberti leverguns that get imported? Some have 30 inch barrels and 14+1 capacity. Chambered for centerfire calibers.

Andrew Wyatt
September 30, 2003, 12:53 PM
i'm working on a straight pull boltgun that uses Ar-15 or ar-10 bolts, modified bolt carriers, and fire control assemblies. the magazine well is modular, and it'll take ak, ar-15, fal, mini-14, or g3 magazines.

Onslaught
September 30, 2003, 11:01 PM
I read in a gunrag review that the Savage Scout would accept modified FAL mags... It didn't elaborate on how that was accomplished. I think FAL mags would make a GREAT mag for this, given their extreme abundance and low prices...

I e-mailed Kurt at Kurt's Kustom firearms and asked him if he could convert the Savage 10FP to use Savage mags, and he said that it should be no problem. I noticed on the stock of the last Savage I owned that it had a square outline where a magwell could be cut out... as though they use the same stock for all of them. It also had an outline on the right side where the bolt handle cut out should be (since mine was a leftie) which added weight to my assumption.

I wouldn't really want 20's, since they stick out so far and get in the way on the bench and prone, but 10 rounds instead of 4 would be great. Heck, being able to remove the mag rather than cycle each round out individually or dump them out all over the ground through a trap door would be good enough for me!

Caliburn
October 2, 2003, 12:40 AM
I didn't know they made 25 round mags for Mausers. Did they make high caps for Mosins? I've only seen the 5-rounders. Would the rims cause problems?

Detritus
October 2, 2003, 04:55 AM
What about those Uberti leverguns that get imported? Some have 30 inch barrels and 14+1 capacity. Chambered for centerfire calibers.

the only place i have EVER heard of a tube-fed centerfire lever gun (esp a pistol caliber one) getting ANY kind of greif was in California, and that was over the fact that nlike the other lever guns you can NOT limit the mag capacity the magazine on a Henry (the 1860 design, lever gun, not the new "we're gonna milk a company-we-are-not-realted-to's name for all it's worth" company) without signifigant mods (if you don't know how the henry mag works it'd take a bit to explain this). California wanted to plcae teh henry int eh same category as the AR, since SASS (single action shootist Society the largest of the CAS orgs) is based in CA, adn holds the world championships in Norco, they raised a royal stink over that one, and the henry and other tube fed lever guns were givent the same exception as the .22 lever guns.

other than over there in "La-la land" ive never heard of any sort of ban or restriction on 10+ capacity in fixed-tube-fed lever guns. now i WIL say that a few companies (marlin for one) have willingly limited the capacity of their "as shipped fromt eh factory" lever guns to 10 or less, but in almost all cases this is akin to the magazine plug in a shotgun, ie the next time you do a "full detail clean" adn take the mag out and swab it out gun etc, you simply "lose" (darn i'll never get to it now! it's rolled behind this 1,000 pound shopsmith!) the litlte plastic filler plug.

Deadman
October 3, 2003, 11:43 AM
I just recieved those two Bulgarian AK mags yesterday. First off a 30 round AK mag is larger than I thought it would be, and secondly nothing like a 30 round AK mag to make a bolt action rifle look nice and 'evil'... :p

BTR
January 4, 2004, 04:48 PM
It seems like I may have been wrong in my previous post, as per the ATF website:

(O16) Are fixed magazines for weapons specified in APPENDIX A to 18 U. S. C. 922 and fixed magazines for manually operated firearms which hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition "large capacity ammunition feeding devices?" [Back]

The law specifically provides that the prohibition on semiautomatic assault weapons shall not apply to any of the firearms specified in Appendix A or any firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action. Accordingly, weapons listed in Appendix A with fixed magazines and manually operated firearms with fixed magazines are exempt from both the assault weapon and feeding device provisions of the law. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 3), 922( w)]

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