Whatever happened to that Reservist drill sergeant with the malfunctioning AR15?


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Rmeju
January 19, 2009, 08:01 AM
You know, the one where he lent the rifle to a pre-basic soldier who took it to the range to practice with and it began double tapping (or bursting or full auto or something) while on the range and the cops took the gun and sent it in for "testing".

Whatever happened to him? I know the first ruling went horribly awry, but he was staying confident for appeal. Anyone know?

Rmeju

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Tom488
January 19, 2009, 08:37 AM
He's serving 2.5 years in FCI Sandstone in Minnesota for his conviction of illegally transferring a machinegun. His appeal is in progress.

cassandrasdaddy
January 19, 2009, 08:47 AM
interesting version of what happened

The Foo
January 19, 2009, 09:27 AM
Taken from another forum:

This is another case that looks unbelievable and to be a tragedy of justice at first, kinda like the Border agents Ramos and Compean who were sentenced to more than 10 years each, that is until you look into it a little deeper. There are a lot of well meaning pro RKBA folks ready to pounce when the original story aired with all it's fallacies. Basically, an army vet, and father of 3 lent his AR to a friend, it slam fired accidentally, a condition well known to the manufacturer, to the point that a recall was issued, it was confiscated, and he was brought up on charges while the ATF modified it to fire FA, and basically railroaded him. If that was the case, I would be one of the folks forking over money to his defense fund, and trying to do my part to help make things right.

Problem is, that isn't true. He installed an M16 dis-connector and selector, that would allow the hammer to fall when the selector was turned to the FA position, however because there was no auto-sear to delay the hammer fall, the FA function was not reliable, and basically was an induced "hammer follow" condition. He advertised the rifle to his friend as "special", and when his friend was firing it, it did get dirty enough to slow the hammer and cause a couple short strings of FA fire before the RO checked it out, saw the guy had no NFA paperwork, and called the police. The ATF had trouble getting it to fire FA reliably until they put a lot of rounds through it, and used ammo primed with soft federal commercial SR primers, at that point, it became a relaible machine gun, and went through a few mags FA without fail. At the trial, Olofson did not fight the ATF's claim that it was a machine gun, or that he modified it to fire FA, he claimed the 2A defense that basically "so what if it is, it's my right to have it", his defense did not work, and he was convicted.

So long story short, the guy knew what he was doing, and basically tried to sell a partially converted and unreliable machine gun FTF. This is why the NRA, and no respectable 2A advocate has taken the bait once this info has come out, and are furious that because of this, the shoddy seat of the pants ATF testing practices are now judicial precedent. There were plenty of holes in the case that a decent lawyer could exploit enough to get a good deal, or possibly an acquittal, but they were rendered moot when they were not exploited, and a man that is guilty for breaking the law however unconstitutional they may be, is going to prison as a result.

22lr
January 19, 2009, 09:31 AM
Wow what a idiot, he lent it to a friend.... I wonder what he was smoking.

mbt2001
January 19, 2009, 10:57 AM
Wasn't his friend a member of the National Guard though? He was also a guard member as well?

If that is the case, which I think it is, I always wonder how they made the illegal transfer stick, since National Guard / Army and Police are the "exempted special class" highlighted in most weapons laws.

Duke of Doubt
January 19, 2009, 11:10 AM
"Exempted special class"?

Listen, you can be General Petraeus, it doesn't mean you can transfer machineguns. And I'll bet if he owns any as personal weapons, they are declared and all paperwork is in order.

Lone_Wolf_556
January 19, 2009, 11:33 AM
ok, i had to register JUST to respond to this thread, as Bladerunner (David R. Olofson) happens to be an associate of mine.

a few points for you all..

1) the rifle in question was well over 20 years old.
2) this rifle came form the MANUFACTURER with BOTH an M16 selector, AND trigger. this was not unusual for that model rifle from that manufacturer at the time.
3) that rifle had seen probably close to 4 million rounds in its lifetime, and was on its THIRD set of replacement parts (each time replaced with IDENTICAL parts, though the current set were DPMS manufacture)

now, he DID loan the rifle to a friend, i agree that this was less than smart, especially considering that the kid had only known him for a few months.

a few more tidbits for you.

1) the kid who HAD the rifle, who was the feds star witness, was PAID by the prosecution, and changed his story several times. he was also never charged with possession, as would have happened to almost anyone else.

2) the ATF did far more than use special ammo to make it go FA.. a VERY rare spring had to be used to make it reliable. it was NOT a question of the weapon being dirty.

3) the weapon was first tested, and found by THEIR expert not to be a MG.. it was slightly modified and returned, with instructions to MAKE it work.. (hence the "special ammo"). you can even see in the video, that the shooter was going out of his way to be as far away from the rifle as possible while firing it. because it could have KB'd at any time.

4) many of their own documents back these claims up, and most can even be seen on his Photobucket acct.. (assuming the feds haven't nuked it.)

FWIW *I*, as in me, myself, have fired this VERY rifle a few times. (even had the pleasure of cleaning it afterwords) the selector DID go to an unmarked third position, but it functioned identically (semi-auto ONLY) in both positions when i fired it... (and YES i DO know what i was looking at, it had an M-16 trigger, carrier and selector, but an AR disco, and hammer)


my personal conclusion; either the fire control group was worn out, (as thrice before, it happens to all of us eventually, even myself), OR kerneki (SP?) tried to modify it to make i fire FA (19 Yrs old, the cool factor, "hold my beer and watch this." sorta thing) and did a piss poor job of it, as it jammed after only three rounds twice. (why in Hades he would go to a PUBLIC range to test it out is beyond me) OR, (and this is not as much a stretch as it may sound), he was set up..

debate as you will.. i may never post here again. (just because you're paranoid does NOT mean they aren't out to get you..) :uhoh:

Duke of Doubt
January 19, 2009, 11:45 AM
I have to admit, it's one of the conceits of gun regulation that semi-auto versus full-auto is merely a matter of switching some parts, legally or illegally.

EVERY semi-auto is a full-auto ready and rarin' to go. All that prevents it from going full-auto is a small group of cheap metal parts. Those parts wear out over the lifetime of the firearm, and frequently need replacement. Conditions can affect their reliable performance.

Come on; who here has NOT has a semi-automatic firearm "double" on occasion? Guess what? Under ATF rules, you own an illegal machinegun.

It's a silly conceit. It's like putting a speed governor on cars, removing the speedometer, and giving out tickets when the governor fails.

ravonaf
January 19, 2009, 01:26 PM
ok, i had to register JUST to respond to this thread, as Bladerunner (David R. Olofson) happens to be an associate of mine.

Thanks for the post. I had also heard that the Feds had tried to get him on some trumped up charges previously? That they had been "out to get him" for awhile now?

benminer
January 20, 2009, 01:07 PM
I have heard such wildly disparate versions of what this guy supposedly did that I really don't know what to believe.

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 01:49 PM
the goober he loaned it to bragged about the switch. to the cops and while i know the other poster says hes not coming back i do also notice he forgot to address the "screw a plea deal its my right to own it " defense the jailed guy offered

JohnBT
January 20, 2009, 03:10 PM
"Come on; who here has NOT has a semi-automatic firearm "double" on occasion?"

Me. And that's going all the way back to the early '50s.

Now, if I had one that doubled, well I think I'd fix it before I loaned it out.

John

Keb
January 20, 2009, 03:57 PM
According to the charging documents, Olofson had arranged to build him a similar rifle. Then he lent that one for about a month after having demo-ed its firing characteristics. Olofson knew it could fire in auto mode. We don't know if he was going to make a legit rifle or an illegal one.

Don't you agree either way that made him a manufacturer sans a license?

He also had lots of printed material on autosears at his home...kinda suspicious.

Like earlier posters have said, he certainly was not a clean case for hollering about gun rights.

Lone_Wolf_556
January 20, 2009, 06:25 PM
OK, second, and probably last post..

YES the feds have been after him for quite a while.. this was the second BATF raid he has survived..

as for his selection of defense.. would YOU plea against a charge when YOU did NOTHING wrong?

and it was more or less a challenge of their jurisdiction more than anything else.. (but this gets into complicated legal measures that are not for everyone, and i WILL not get into here..)

as for the supposed offer to build..
A) he NEVER builds firearms for anyone. he WILL help a newbie out to assemble a firearm on a receiver that THEY have purchased. and don't even TRY to tell me that helping someone else out makes YOU a manufacturer..

B) FWIW he was a master armorer in the military, of course he had that data.. as do MANY of you too i am sure.. that's not illegal last time i checked.

C) JohnBT, you are indeed fortunate if you have never had an AR malfunction after several thousand rounds.. in my experience they all malfunction eventually, unless you preemptively replace your FCG on a regular basis. as for this particular malfunction; he himself hadn't fired the rifle in several months, and that was the first time it had happened since his last FCG replacement. (something like four years prior) and the jury is still out as to weather the weapon was tampered with by kerniki, or the feds. the ATF flat out refuses to let anyone see the firearm for examination. (sound suspicious anyone?)


FINAL analysis:

A) this sets a dangerous precedent that ANYONE who owns a semi auto that EVER malfunctions is guilty of felony possession of a MG.

B) the court record itself has the ATF stating FLAT out that ANY firearm that CAN BE MADE to fire multiple rounds with ONLY ONE pull of the trigger is by their definition a MG.. i don't know about any of you guys, but i can make almost ANY bolt action fire that way, and also double barrel shotguns.

i just pray that the appeal goes through, and this abortion of justice gets overthrown. NRA, GOA, and several other groups have pitched in for the ABSOLUTE BEST lawyers in the country to take this appeal, if THEY believe in the case enough to sink several hundred Gs into it, i think you should at least look into it.


over and out...

22lr
January 20, 2009, 06:40 PM
I love how the accused is innocent and the feds are portrayed as out to get him. What did he do make a joke about a agent mom or something, I mean come on.

As for the charge, um if he knew it was slipping then he should have fixed it. Other wise why cant I just break the part on my gun and not fix it. What he did was wrong and he should be held to the standard that we all have to follow. And ive put 15k+ rounds though my 10/22 without replacing anything, so far I have exactly 0 slips. I dont see how a M-16/AR is going to withstand to many more rounds than that.

Nothing wrong my :cuss:, id like to see him court marshaled for giving a recruit an unsafe weapon.

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 06:51 PM
what was the first raid over?


"the ATF flat out refuses to let anyone see the firearm for examination. (sound suspicious anyone?)"

sounds like bs his defense can have their expert examine it.


are you trying to say he didn't loan the goober a gun with a 3 position swith? that in that third position the gun didn't fire full auto? his being a master armorere makes it worse not better. he definitly shoulda known better.

Duke of Doubt
January 20, 2009, 06:51 PM
I've heard of semi-autos doubling due to conditions having nothing to do with modifications or wear to the rifle. Rebound slamfire, cookoff, gumming, etc.

Cases of true wear or manufacturing defect are different. Tough calls in my book, though. How worn is too worn? You never really know until it doubles for the first time due to wear. If that's really what caused it to double at all. God help you if the first double happens in front of a federal agent. Or an informant.

Then, of course, there is the wonderful world of bump-firing.

Mot45acp
January 20, 2009, 06:57 PM
His story in its entirety posted by David R. Olofson can be found on arfdotcom

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 07:31 PM
Automatic gun transfer nets prison sentence
By John Diedrich of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: May. 14, 2008



David R. OlofsonA Wisconsin man whose federal conviction for illegally transferring a machine gun drew national attention on CNN and the Internet was sentenced Tuesday to 30 months in prison.

David R. Olofson, 36, of Berlin, who remains a member of the Army Reserve until his felony conviction becomes official, was convicted by a jury in January.

Olofson, whose case has been reported several times on Lou Dobbs' show on CNN, faced up to 10 years in prison, Federal sentencing guidelines called for 27 to 33 months.

U.S. District Judge Charles Clevert said Olofson knew or should have known the gun in question fired automatically.

"This was a man who has considerable knowledge of weapons, considerable knowledge of machine guns," Clevert said. "Mr. Olofson, in this court's view, has shown he was ignoring the law."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Gregory Haanstad noted that Olofson had two previous gun-related convictions, including carrying a concealed weapon with his children trick-or-treating. He also noted that Olofson was reprimanded for corrupting Army computers and perhaps providing militia groups access to sensitive information.

Olofson's attorney, Brian Fahl, who had asked for probation, promised a swift appeal with help from the National Rifle Association. He argued that Olofson's rifle malfunctioned because of the way it was manufactured. Fahl said the case is being watched nationally because some believe it allows for criminal charges whenever a weapon accidentally fires more than once.

"If you have a multiple firing, it looks like you can be prosecuted," Fahl said.

Olofson, a stay-at-home father of three, made no statement in court and left without speaking to reporters.

Prosectors argued it is a straightforward case of someone knowing a gun fired automatically and giving it to someone else.

In July 2006, Olofson lent an Olympic Arms AR-15 rifle to Robert Kiernicki, who took it to a shooting range in Berlin, according to court documents. Kiernicki was responding to an ad posted by Olofson to sell an AR-15.

AR-15s are semiautomatic rifles that fire a bullet each time the trigger is pulled. Federal law classifies a weapon that fires more than one bullet with a single trigger pull as a machine gun.

People can legally own fully automatic, military-type M-16 rifles, but they must have a federal license and cannot transfer it to someone else.

According to court records, Kiernicki turned the rifle's firing selector to the third position, pulled the trigger, and three bullets fired with each pull. Then the weapon jammed. The automatic gunfire was reported to police, who contacted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Kiernicki testified Olofson told him the third position was for automatic firing, but it jammed, court records indicate. He also testified Olofson told him he had fired the weapon on the automatic setting at that same range without a problem, according to the records.

Olofson contended an ATF document showed that the company that made his AR-15 used M-16 automatic parts in some of them, including his, which would explain that it malfunctioned. Clevert reviewed the document and found it wouldn't exonerate Olofson.

Clevert said the key was not what parts were in the weapon but whether it operated in automatic mode. He played a video used at trial showing ATF agents firing Olofson's weapon in automatic mode. He also noted that in one ATF test, the rifle didn't fire automatically when military-grade ammunition was used.

Haanstad said Olofson had provided weapons and ammunition to so many people he couldn't keep track. A search of his home turned up books on converting rifles to fully automatic, and e-mail on his computer showed he bought M-16 parts, records show.

Olofson had contact with vigilante groups and professed to be part of the sovereign movement, which doesn't acknowledge federal laws as applying to them, Haanstad said.

Olofson's order to report to prison will take several weeks. In the meantime, Fahl said he would rush an appeal to stay the sentence to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29561634.html

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 07:33 PM
https://secure.jsonline.com/CommunityServer/blogs/proofandhearsay/olofson%20emaill.pdf

and heres more of the thought process involved

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 07:38 PM
seems the jury took 40 mins to find him guilty

Jeff White
January 20, 2009, 08:15 PM
1) the rifle in question was well over 20 years old.
2) this rifle came form the MANUFACTURER with BOTH an M16 selector, AND trigger. this was not unusual for that model rifle from that manufacturer at the time.

Around 1984 the BATF made a determination that AR15s with M16 fire control parts were illegal. They required every manufacturer to recall every lower receiver that was shipped with M16 fire control parts and replace them with AR15 fire control parts. The manufacturers had to account for all of these lower receivers and just like in other cases of recalls like that, the BATF went out looking for the ones the manufacturer couldn't certify they corrected. I have first hand knowledge of this because I had an Essential Arms lower purchased from Quality Parts Company (later Bushmaster) that was shipped with M16 fire control parts. I still have the letter from Quality Parts Company asking me to ship the receiver back to them at their expense so they could change the fire control parts. I'm sure it's possible that the receiver in question missed the recall, but I find it highly unlikely. Everyone in the black rifle community has known that M16 fire control parts in an AR15 could lead to a violation 25 years ago. I find it hard to believe that a "Master Armorer" wouldn't know this, especially after warnings were published in American Rifleman.

3) that rifle had seen probably close to 4 million rounds in its lifetime, and was on its THIRD set of replacement parts (each time replaced with IDENTICAL parts, though the current set were DPMS manufacture)

4 MILLION rounds?? that's close to $40,000 at 1980s ammo prices.

1) the kid who HAD the rifle, who was the feds star witness, was PAID by the prosecution, and changed his story several times. he was also never charged with possession, as would have happened to almost anyone else.

Here's a little tidbit for you. Informants are paid by every police department in the country and they are usually given immunity to testify about crimes they participated in. It's the way things are done.

2) the ATF did far more than use special ammo to make it go FA.. a VERY rare spring had to be used to make it reliable. it was NOT a question of the weapon being dirty.

What is a "rare" spring? Here is another little tidbit for you. Anyone who knows how an AR15/M16 functions knows that if you put M16 fire control parts in it and put the selector in the auto position that the hammer will follow the bolt home and it will likely double or triple or run full auto until it loses velocity to the point it's not hitting the firing pin with enough force to activate the primer. A "Master Armorer" would know that.

3) the weapon was first tested, and found by THEIR expert not to be a MG.. it was slightly modified and returned, with instructions to MAKE it work.. (hence the "special ammo").

You have proof of that? Copies of the internal memos maybe?

you can even see in the video, that the shooter was going out of his way to be as far away from the rifle as possible while firing it. because it could have KB'd at any time.

Would YOU fire a weapon that you knew nothing about except the fact that some layman had allegedly modified it to fire full auto in a standard firing position?

A) this sets a dangerous precedent that ANYONE who owns a semi auto that EVER malfunctions is guilty of felony possession of a MG.

No, it sets the precedent that anyone who mixes fire control parts around in an AR15 in an attempt to build a machine gun is liable to have to pay the price for breaking the law.




YES the feds have been after him for quite a while.. this was the second BATF raid he has survived..

Are you insinuating the BATFE tried to kill him on these two raids? You certainly have some proof of these allegations. If you don't, I don't think you should be insinuating that there was any unnecessary force used. Or are you just using hyperbole to garner symapthy?

as for his selection of defense.. would YOU plea against a charge when YOU did NOTHING wrong?

People plead guilty all the time, often to crimes that they weren't initially charged with. There is a difference between breaking the law and doing something that in your opinion isn't wrong.

and it was more or less a challenge of their jurisdiction more than anything else.. (but this gets into complicated legal measures that are not for everyone, and i WILL not get into here..)

And just what complicated legal measures are you talking about? Some kind of claim that the BATEFE doesn't have jurisdiction? Why don't you explain it to us, I'm sure there are many attorneys and peace officers who are mebers here who could follow it.

B) FWIW he was a master armorer in the military,

What service was that? There is no MOS for Master Armorer in the US Army. An armorer is a 92Y, and that MOS diverges into a supply clerk above E4. There are Small Arms Repairmen who actually fix broken weapons, but there is no position of Master Armorer.

C) JohnBT, you are indeed fortunate if you have never had an AR malfunction after several thousand rounds.. in my experience they all malfunction eventually, unless you preemptively replace your FCG on a regular basis. as for this particular malfunction; he himself hadn't fired the rifle in several months, and that was the first time it had happened since his last FCG replacement.

At what interval do you recommend replacing the FCG? I have over 12K rounds in my R6920 and it's never doubled. There is no recommended interval to replace the FCG in TM9-1005-319-23&P. I personally know of many M16A1s that have gone untold thousands of rounds without replacing the FCG and have never failed a function check. I have over 34 years experience with the M16/AR15 platform and am unaware of any requirement to regularly replace the FCG.

cassandrasdaddy
January 20, 2009, 08:21 PM
he had a conviction for carrying concealed while his kids were trick or treating if his sovreignity didn't beat that rap what made anyone think it would this time? and the kid was less a friend than someone who answered an ad for him selling the gun according to the first news report.

Duke of Doubt
January 20, 2009, 08:38 PM
I hate cases like this. The guy surely appears to have authority issues (yet he's in the Army?), and criminal intent.

But that isn't the precedent created. Instead we have the frightening specter of ANY gun that CAN BE MADE to fire two shots with a pull of the trigger, sometimes, being classed as a (illegal) machinegun.

Shoot, as I said above, given the wrong conditions, wrong ammo, wrong maintenance, wrong amount of wear, I think any autoloader can be "made" to double. People bump-fire all the time. The SKS slamfire issue is well-known. AK patterns have their own occasional hiccups. This is the truly unsettling part, and why I hate these cases. It's so easy to say, "Yeah, but he knew what he was doing." O.K., but that's not the main holding in the case.

ServiceSoon
January 20, 2009, 10:07 PM
This is what happens when you allow malum prohibitum and victimless laws. You punish people, by taking their life away, for a law that is not wrong or evil within itself.

eye5600
January 21, 2009, 02:23 PM
4,000,000 rounds is 1000/day, 200 weekdays a year, for 20 years.

Duke of Doubt
January 21, 2009, 02:26 PM
Hard-working gun.

Guns and more
January 21, 2009, 05:31 PM
Olofson had contact with vigilante groups and professed to be part of the sovereign movement, which doesn't acknowledge federal laws as applying to them
Hmmmm..........maybe why the ATF was after him?

Seenterman
January 22, 2009, 03:12 PM
Question:
Without any modifications

Can this type of malfunction happen in new production AR-15s?

How does this type of malfunction happen?
It will go FA after 2k round, or after 10k rounds?

What do you do if it happen? Send it back to the manufacturer (Do they all accept repairs)? What do you tell them happened?

Can it be fixed by replacing the trigger mechanism?

I ask this because Im new to the BR community, have a little over 1k rounds through my AR and dont know a damn thing about fire control groups or whatever causes this. I dont even know how to clean the gas tubes yet. Do I have to worry about my AR doing this crap in a year or two?

Duke of Doubt
January 22, 2009, 03:39 PM
You don't have to worry about it doing THAT, exactly. It did THAT because of a combination of parts not found on modern commercial ARs.

But you can expect to experience occasional doubles over the years. It may never happen to you, but it may. Due to ammunition, conditions, cleaning or maintenance issues, or wear to certain parts, that is. "Bump-firing" can encourage this antisocial behavior by your firearm, as can certain "limpwristing."

That's what scares me about this case -- the feds' position seems to be that a gun which can be made to double -- meaning ANY autoloading firearm -- is a machinegun.

CoRoMo
January 22, 2009, 03:49 PM
I first heard about it through the following videos.
Watch part I here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWWW1WOQpDk&feature=related) Here is part II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EGy5lpy9GY&feature=related).

spartywrx
January 22, 2009, 06:12 PM
The case went before the 7th Circuit for Appeals today. The MP3 of the argument can be had here: http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/KD10POY2.mp3 (right click - save target as). Basically the 3 judge court will determine if the ATF's definition of automatic applies to what happened to Olofson's AR-15. Olofson's lawyer made a pretty good case that the gun is not automatic since the gun shot multiple rounds with one trigger, but stopped firing without exhausting its ammunition or releasing the trigger. Or that's what I heard in the argument, and i'm obviously biased. Also, I noted that the 3 judge panel did not seem to be very familiar with firearms at all.

From what ar15.com said, an opinion will be released in 2-6 weeks.

hoppinglark
January 23, 2009, 12:10 AM
In before the lock!

The JPFO was on top of this from the beginning, as I recall with the ATF fails the test video.

It's hard to know who or what to believe, but I'm leaning towards the idea that no criminal intention existed.

rscalzo
January 23, 2009, 12:43 AM
i don't know about any of you guys, but i can make almost ANY bolt action fire that way (multiple shots)

Now that's a puzzler?????

Olofson's lawyer made a pretty good case that the gun is not automatic since the gun shot multiple rounds with one trigger, but stopped firing without exhausting its ammunition or releasing the trigger

Similar to the three round burst in the M16's?

Jeff White
January 23, 2009, 12:59 AM
Quote:
i don't know about any of you guys, but i can make almost ANY bolt action fire that way (multiple shots)

Now that's a puzzler?????

Given enough time and a fully equipped machine shop it's possible. But you'd be essentially constructing a new weapon.

DMF
January 23, 2009, 02:48 AM
Olofson's lawyer made a pretty good case that the gun is not automatic since the gun shot multiple rounds with one trigger, but stopped firing without exhausting its ammunition or releasing the trigger.Interesting argument, but IMO is unlikely to carry much weight.

The definition of a machinegun in the US Code is:
"The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed
to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more
than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of
the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of
any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and
exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use
in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of
parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in
the possession or under the control of a person."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/26/subtitles/e/chapters/53/subchapters/b/parts/i/sections/section_5845.html

You'll note all it says is the weapon "shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." The definition says nothing about releasing the trigger or exhausting the ammunition.

waterhouse
January 23, 2009, 09:40 AM
Olofson's lawyer made a pretty good case that the gun is not automatic since the gun shot multiple rounds with one trigger, but stopped firing without exhausting its ammunition or releasing the trigger.

Some guns have a 3 round burst selection. They fire multiple rounds per trigger pull, and stop firing without exhausting the ammunition or releasing the trigger. They are still classified as machine guns.

ETA: sorry DMF, I didn't get down to your post.

Erik
January 23, 2009, 10:34 AM
My take on it: A guy, knowing what he was doing was illegal, hired a lawyer to stake his defense on what amounts to a veritable ideological defense, as opposed to a legal one, and he predictably lost.

I have no issue with the result, given the "facts" known.

Now, an unknowing owner who put up a reasonable defense which may have won a pro-2A victory? Well, that isn't what this is, but that would be something that I'd like to see.

SHvar
January 23, 2009, 11:53 AM
This is the kind of person that gives all law abiding firearm owners a bad name. If he doesnt like our great countries laws then maybe he should pack up and go find another one to live in. At first this case sounded like he might have been set up until I read the whole story, no doubt why he was convicted so quickly.

richyoung
January 23, 2009, 12:46 PM
This is the kind of person that gives all law abiding firearm owners a bad name. If he doesnt like our great countries laws then maybe he should pack up and go find another one to live in.

...and this is what Dr. King should have done, right?


Wait a minute,...


...don't we make fun of Alec Baldwin for THREATENING to do this???

cassandrasdaddy
January 23, 2009, 06:09 PM
i hope he gets out and at least vhe didn't try any "alien sovreign " nonsense in court

SHvar
January 24, 2009, 01:02 AM
By his history, I would not doubt that he will be back into the system in a few years with another illegal scam, only next time it will include being arrested for "felon not permitted firearm possession" in addition.
When I first read about this I thought that maybe it was a person who got caught up in a single mistake, but after researching further into this I realize that its a case of someone committing a felony and knowing without a doubt that he was doing so by his choice.
Dr. King was not committing a crime, he was well withing his 1st ammendmant rights, he was not breaking the law. Anyone with an ounce of common sense and education wouldnt put this guy in the same paragragh as Dr. King. Maybe putting him in the same paragraph with Tim McVeigh is more appropriate.

cassandrasdaddy
January 24, 2009, 01:27 AM
Anyone with an ounce of common sense and education wouldnt put this guy in the same paragragh as Dr. King

well put


Maybe putting him in the same paragraph with Tim McVeigh is more appropriate.
probably better put

pathman
January 24, 2009, 03:02 AM
4million rounds? that's over 500 rounds every single day.
for 20 years.
He'd spend a fortune on tylenol for his joints let alone the cost of the ammo!

i find that hard to believe. but what do i know?

This guy broke the law. If he was some civilian then nobody would even THINK of trying to defend what he did.
He sounds like one of those idiot hiphop guys who get caught w/ illegal MGs

They don't deserve any special treatment, why should this dude?

unless of course there's something i'm missing here...people like this hurt the cause.

TRGRHPY
January 24, 2009, 06:18 AM
Anyone with an ounce of common sense and education wouldnt put this guy in the same paragragh as Dr. King

well put

Maybe putting him in the same paragraph with Tim McVeigh is more appropriate.
probably better put

+1

But wait, there's more. If you call now, you'll get:
He sounds like one of those idiot hiphop guys who get caught w/ illegal MGs

They don't deserve any special treatment, why should this dude?

I won't get into musical tastes, but that statement sounds a bit racist. I would also question its accuracy. Any proof that "idiot hip-hop guys" are any more likely to be in posession of an illegal MG over any other group, such as ditchbank white supremist inbred okies?

BTW, I don't mean any offense to any ditchbank white supremist inbred okies out there...I just wanted to make sure that your demographic was represented fairly.:D Heck, For all I know we could be related. My family tree has some pretty crooked branches. hahaha

pathman
January 24, 2009, 08:56 AM
racist?
i wasn't aware that that hiphop was a race? i am actually a big hiphop fan - i'm not a fan of these nuckleheads that break gun laws.

i didn't say that they are more likely than another group but how about off the top of my head...TI. Or DMX. or jarule. or Lil' Wayne. or judakiss. or fabo. or tupac. or any number of hiphop artists who have broken various gun laws - some as severe as that TI jackass. (ok fine, i did like tupac)

i'm not implying in anyway HipHop artists represent any "group" or race of people other than the narcissistic celebrity mindset. i was merely pointing out that this guy is no better than one of these gansta rappers who tries to, for whatever reason, operate outside the law when it comes to firearms and should be treated as such.

i never said they are more likely to be in possession than another "Group" But since the group i am talking about is celebrities, then i'll stand by the statement. HipHop artists as a group do get into more gun-trouble than say Boy Bands. Rock bands. Or R&B artists.

i've never been called racist before...

TRGRHPY
January 24, 2009, 09:21 AM
My point wasn't to start a big fight over something stupid, but it was to point out that by pointing out hiphop (whatever you said) most people will think exactly what I thought. While hiphop is not a race, with few exception, the hiphop group is indeed predominantly black, or to put it another way...non-blacks are heavily under represented. And since there wasn't anything to suggest race (unless I missed it somewhere) making a comparison like that wasn't necessary, inflammatory and irrelevant to the discussion. You made a comment about hiphop and machine guns (MG's), but then just list non MG issues.

But then you backpeddle and try to say that the group you were referring to were celebrities. But then go on to post nothing but black hiphop artists. ??? There is no way for anyone reading your post to make the stretch that what you meant was celebrities.

And while you state that you have never been called a racist before, guess what? You still haven't. Saying that someone made a statement that sounds racist is far from actually calling them a racist.

But then you completely missed the humor part of the ditchbankokie thing as well. That really offended me since I thought it was pretty good. I'll just have to assume that logic and humor this early in the morning is beyond you. That's ok though, since i cant type or function a computer this late/early. Not good since I have a computer class in 45 minutes.
I would likethis to end now so that the thread doesn't get locked, agreed?

pathman
January 24, 2009, 09:26 AM
no, i laughed at that - i meant to add something snarky about that too - but i forgot while i was editing my opus

but yes - no bickering - i wasn't trying to backpedal. i'd love to talk hiphop w\ anyone who'd listen - i think i am more bitter about the state of music today than prejudiced. most modern music including rap blows... My wife made me watch TI on ellen the other day and he was awful...he pisses me off. i think maybe THAT's coming out more than anything else

but fair enough - he reminds me of <insert not representitive stereotype here> and should be punished accordingly.

sorry if i offended you!

Jeff White
January 24, 2009, 02:23 PM
Race, hip-hop....this one's done.

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