[aw82]

im liquidating my collection to invest in a few high quality hunting rifles.
im looking into the ruger m77 hawkeye, kimber 84m/8400, cz 550 american, or winchester model 70

here is the question, how much difference exactly does a 5.5 lb rifle (kimber) make when compared to a 7.5 lb rifle (the others)...?

is it all that important really? im choosing between .308 or 30-06 so recoil should be manageable. well i say that but my model 88 winchester in .308 kicks pretty good.

is balance the more important thing on shooting accurate offhand?

[testar77]

here is the question, how much difference exactly does a 5.5 lb rifle (kimber) make when compared to a 7.5 lb rifle (the others)...? Well...... I'd say about 2lbs :neener:

In all seriousness, what I look for in a rifle is simply this:

Accuracy, Reliability, and probably the most important is comfort meaning how it fits me, how the balance is, and how comfortable the rifle is to shoot in all ergonomically based catagories. If it's not comfortable for YOU to shoot, then 1 and 2 don't really matter much!

Also you don't need to buy a "high end" rifle to get these attributes either.

Toby

[DRYHUMOR]

Fit, finish, accuracy.

Balance is important depending on how you will shoot. Will you shoot standing, prone, sitting, on a rest? If you intend to shoot offhand, I would recommend shooting a lot offhand to improve your accuracy.

[Art Eatman]

First, fit: Length of pull and then the old deal of mounting the rifle to my shoulder with my eyes closed. When I open my eyes I want to be looking right through the sights or right down the centerline of the barrel (above it, of course).

Then, aesthetics and then price.

Balance is very important. My preference is for slightly muzzle-heavy to help in offhand shooting in the field. Not super-critical, however, but noticeably muzzle-light is a bummer.

Weight? For years I did walking hunting with a 9-1/2 pound '06. Lotsa ten-mile jaunts and longer. Definitely gives you a case of shoulder-sag by the end of the day. No big deal for just walking a mile or so to a stand. But around seven or so pounds is a piece of cake...

[MCgunner]

Accuracy.

Accuracy.

The caliber I want.

Accuracy.

I can make the gun fit if that's needed, fine tune it or buy a new stock if it's ACCURATE and I like it. But, I've never found the rifle that fit me THAT bad. Well, wait, SKS, but that's not a hunting rifle, more of a range toy, though I did put a choate stock on it and kill a deer with it.

A tunable, decent trigger.

Oh, did I mention accuracy?

No, you don't need to spend a lot of money. Savage and Remington are in my collection and they don't break the bank.

[retrieverman]

im liquidating my collection to invest in a few high quality hunting rifles.
im looking into the ruger m77 hawkeye, kimber 84m/8400, cz 550 american, or winchester model 70

What are you looking to spend?

If you truly want to go "high end", you might want to consider a Blaser R-93 which is a switch barrel system and allows for multiple calibers on one receiver. Fit and finish is excellent, and accuracy is second to none.

PM me if you have any questions.

[caribou]

An M-39 Mosin Nagant has the right sights, great balance, excellent range, cheap ammo,a sweet trigger and accuracy that can surpass my ability.

But thats why I carry it!!!

[nathan]

Caliber, accuracy, balance . length of pull and price and last is , do i really need it ? I research on forums to get info s on a particular model before i buy it.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I haven't bought a hunting rifle for myself for 15 years. Prior to that I packed around a sporterized 9 pound 03-A3 for many seasons. As Testar77 (above) will attest, I travel through timber for miles. I'd probably double my hunting distances if I hunted open country. -While carrying day pack along with holstered Super Black Hawk. Weight of a rifle is not all that important to me. Although anything over 9 pounds to me is best used from bench, not in the field.

Along with what McGunner said, Accuracy. A rifle must be accurate for the distances I intend on shooting and killing game. I don't expect a hunting rifle to be a tack driver at 500yds. I shoot well, but I don't practice at such a long range. I've never needed to shoot a Deer at more than 250yds.

Trigger! You can have a super accurate barrel/reciever combination in a glass bedded Kevlar stock, but a rough, heavy weight, extended 'pre-travel' and long vacation 'over travel' trigger will ruin the potential accuracy of any shooter/rifle combination. A trigger must be 3way adjustable. Crisp. All I want is 'Click'. Nothing else.

Balance. A rifle needs to balance well when in the field. A little muzzle heavy is my preference. Not just for shooting. The rifle has to balance well in my hand. My rifle is slung on my shoulder 10% of the time I'm in the field. The rest of the time it's in my right hand horizontal or cradled in both arms. My hand forward of the trigger guard across the floor plate. If there's too much weight aft of there, then it would not carry well.

I require smooth bolt and cartridge feed operation.

The safety needs to be able to be selected even with gloves on. I prefer a tang safety or one to the right of the tang. FORWARD to FIRE.

Steel trigger guard. So many rifles are coming out with aluminum or composite trigger guards. Take a fall and break a trigger guard and you may just turn that rifle into a single shot for the rest of your trip, -as the floor plate most likely latches there. (not an issue for an internal box or removable magazine)

Although I've never had issue with the Ruger style locking scope ring/mounts, I'm leaning on the weaver rail style as my boys have them on their rifles, and if anything can pass the test of teenagers in the field, it's got to be OK.

Fit... Nothing fits me. As I am not average Joe American. I'm 5'8', 160#s with small hands. But when I pull a rifle to sight a shot, I must be able to put cross hairs, irons or peep on target without fuss. Some rifles just feel better than others. And I'm not opposed to changing length of pull by changing recoil pad or trimming the butt of a stock. If I like all the features of a barrelled action, then replacing a stock with one of proper LOP and Drop is not out of the question to get that rifle to swing into position just as it is extension of my hands.

Strength. Bolt locking lugs, -Although a gunsmith's nightmare regarding bolt timing, The more, the bigger, the better. A reciever needs to have sufficient metal and lug area to properly bed into a stock.

Finish is not extremely important to me, but I figure that my next rifle will be stainless.

Extraction. Ruger's bolt action extraction process has never faild me. -Even with a belted magnum wildcat that I load a bit on the warm side.

Short action, Long action... Doesn't matter to me.

I would like a detachable magazine in my next hunting rifle.

All that said, I've recently purchased a Marlin XL7 for my 14 year old son. Ordered it for it's features within a price point. Nothing purchased over the counter will fit him. And it'll stay in stock configuration until he grows more. Other than that, it has a fluted bolt for very smooth operation. The XL7 is touted to be very accurate within it's price. The trigger is adjustable, with much the same design concept as the Savage Accu trigger. Changing caliber appears to be quite simple with a few tools, ala Savage style barrel lock nut. Composite stock for durability.

I love my Ruger 77, but I figure that the Browning A-Bolt, Savage 116FCSS and Tikka T3 rifles will get a hard look when I decide to purchase a new hunting rifle. Else.. I'll build something.

My 16 year old son will need a rifle as he grows out of his Rossi Single Shot. I'm building a sporterized Eddystone Enfield 1917 in 30-06 for him. First thing I've purchased for it is a Timney trigger group.

-Steve

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Here's the criteria:

1. Not a Ruger
2. Accurate
3. Made well / good fit & finish / smoothness
4. Points well for me / ergonomic / friendly and quiet safety
4.5 Action and Specs suit the intended purposes (generally light and short for hunting rifles)
5. Strong & robust / no or very few plastic parts
6. Reliable
7. Aesthetically pleasing (no plastic stocks)
7. Holds re-sale value
8. Aftermarket accessories available.
9. Caliber I want

[JImbothefiveth]

Depends on waht I want to use it for. In general though, I look for something that's durable, decently reliable, more accurate than I am, and then I check the ergonomics, and trigger pull. If I want a scoped rifle, then I make sure I can scope it without too much problem.

Oh, and I want it affordable. If it's something like a defensive gun, I'm willing to spend a bit more, but for a plinker, not so much.

Aftermarket accessories available.
That's also a good thing to consider.

[deacon8]

aw82,

You posed two separate questions that I would like to "touch" on. One was concerning weight, the other was concerning balance and offhand shooting.

Personally, I don't like super-lightweight rifles for one main reason. They don't allow me to shoot very steady offhand, especially if they have short barrels as well. I prefer 24" barrels most of the time and a rifle that does not weigh under 7 lbs. BEFORE the scope. I love Kimber rifles, but I do not own one simply because they are way too light for me. However, YES, balance is important in offhand shooting as well. Also, when I say I prefer a "heavier" gun, I don't mean that I want some 24" bull barrel to shoot offhand with. Something around 8-8.5 lbs. with scope and sling is about right for me.

As for what I look for in a rifle (besides the weight and length mention above). In a nice, high-quality hunting rifle, I like accuracy. Also, a Mauser action of some variance is nice, though not a necessity. I also like a deep, glossy blued finish. And wood is very important. I don't know what it is, but deep bluing and nice wood makes me happy. A good trigger is also something I look for.

As for aesthetics, there are lots of little things that make a really nice rifle. For instance, inletted swivels, shadow-lined cheek pieces, metal grip caps, etc. However, accuracy, trigger, nice wood, nice blued finish, and dimensions that suit me are what I look for in a nice rifle.

[deacon8]

Also, for what it is worth:

If I were to get a new rifle right now, I would get one of the new Model 70 Super-grades in a 30-06. I was just looking at them and noticed they have about everything I mentioned in my previous post. They sound really nice.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=107&cat=001C

[Nathanael_Greene]

what do you look for in a rifle

First thing: A left-handed action. Everything else is up for negotiation.

[Savage99]

aw82,

For decades I found that a 'featherweight' rifle that weighed 6.75 lbs sans scope was just right for me. Later as I aged I needed to cut the weight of the rifle.

A younger man who hunted where the going was really rough might want the lighter rifle now.

So I got four Kimbers. The Kimber 84M Montana in 308 is quite the rifle and scoped its much lighter than my older rifles. I like the Kimbers as they have the M70 type three postion safeties that even lock the firing pin, have control round feeding and in general are quality rifles.

[Art Eatman]

I didn't mention accuracy because in today's world it's hard to find a rifle that's not accurate--or that with some minor tweaking will be quite accurate.

As far as somebody being down on Ruger, I've had three Ruger bolt-actions. All were sub-MOA without tweaking. I figure three out of three isn't a bad average. :D

[MCgunner]

I didn't mention accuracy because in today's world it's hard to find a rifle that's not accurate--or that with some minor tweaking will be quite accurate.

True enough.

I think a Ruger might require an aftermarket adjustable trigger. Are they adjustable out of the box? My friend's boy has a pretty M77 in .22-250 that's a tack driver.

[tggdeer]

I do not recomend the ruger.The trigger pull from the factory is 7 lbs. The safety isnot in a good location for me. I like the safety beside the trigger guard. Always a 30 06 over the 308. The 308 is a very good caliber. I have one. The 30 06 will do everything the 308 will do and more, and the ammo is cheaper. 30 06 Has more choices in ammo... The ruger trigger has to be ground ,by a gunsmith or buy an after market adj, trigger.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

You certainly don't need to have a Ruger 77mkII trigger 'ground' on by a gunsmith.

A jewlers file, or fine trigger stone from Brownells will do just fine. Polish sear contact points with a tough piece of leather and some jewlers rouge or Mother's polish. Then install a reduced power trigger spring from Trapper. Else it is one of the easiest to work on. Ruger77 trigger work. (http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/ruger77trigger.html) If you screw it up, it is a user friendly task to install a Timney trigger group. (http://www.timneytriggers.com/sunshop/catalog/Ruger-M77-MKII-24.html) Or, the prior model of Ruger77 Varmint models has an adjustable trigger that fits the larger caliber rifles. Just call Ruger.

Sorry, it's pretty tough to move the tang or bolt safety down to the trigger guard. -So, I guess you won't be liking Ruger any time soon. I don't like the style of safety on the new Ruger bolt guns either.

-Steve

[Art Eatman]

I guess it was about eight-ish years back that I bought a like-new Ruger 77 Mk II in .223. Light sporter. I didn't know about what I've come to call their "tort liability" trigger.

So, a discount price on Mr. Timney's product, and it was a piece of cake to install. I ground a little bit at a time off the safety bar until it fit. About the third time at the bench grinder had it just right.

I guess there are about a hundred prairie dogs that wish I'd left it home. :D

AS far as light weight rifles in such as the .308, one of Mr. Pachmyr's finest pads will do a good job of taming it down. And, as I said earlier, proper fit makes a big difference.

[dmazur]

I see that your list consists of Mauser CRF actions, so I would suggest you also look at Montana Rifle Company (MRC). They used to offer actions or barrelled actions, but now they also have complete rifles.

The MRC 1999 action is a Model 70 copy. Its receiver is investment cast by a company Ruger owns (? I think), and they seem to be doing a fairly good job of assembling them into complete rifles. There was a time period where the action was intended to be sold to a gunsmith and some buyers expected better finish, magazine rails to be adjusted for feed, etc. and these steps hadn't been done. I believe these problems don't appear in the product sold as a completed rifle.

I'm not sure who is making their wood stocks, but I believe the synthetic stocks are Lone Wolf.

I checked their web site, and while their magazine ads show completed rifles, the web site doesn't seem to have been updated.

Now that the Winchester is back, I'm not sure what this is going to do to MRC. They seem to be a hard-working small firm, nevertheless, and are probably worth an inquiry.

(I'm happy with my M1999 in .30-06 :) )

[huntershooter]

I have a few Kimber rifles. Two of them 84/8400 series (.308/7mmWSM).
They are fantastic "still hunting" rifles due to weight (or lack of).
No free lunch though, even the .308 kicks pretty good. Don't notice it when shooting at game. An extended bench session is another story.

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I look for a smooth / "slick" action, nice wood with a grain pattern, nice deep bluing.

Typically I cant afford it when I find it, but thats what I look for.

(I purposly ommitted the obvious & many functional factors)

[interlock]

In the past looks have been important to me when i buy a rifle. but i think less so now. It needs to be in the calibre and with the twist rate i want. it needs to do the job i want. now i think i would go for a synthetic and stainless remmy 700. i would choose a full length 24 inch barrel to be sure i could get the most out of my ammunition. I would chooses a good solid standard scope mounting system like a weaver rail and mounts. It would need a nice trigger. i have a remmy model 7 from 1997 (i think) i bought it unused old stock and got a real deal on it, that has a lovely trigger. I quite like the remmy safety although it has lots of travel, I prefer it to my ruger m77's safety.

i looked at a miruko M bolt the other day.... thats a good rifle for the money.

[deerhunter61]

I bought a Ruger 280 a little over a year ago because I was looking for good performance without taking a beating...

I was hunting with a 7Mag and 300Mag at the time and as father time has caught up to me was looking for something that would do the job and not kick as hard.

Well here is where I answer the question about weight...the Ruger is a mountain rifle...I did not even think about it being appreciably lighter than my Browning BBR 7 mag or my Remington BDL 300 mag. Well scoped it took it to the range and WOW! The felt recoil was as bad as that of my 7mag. So for me the lighter rifle definately kicks more than that of the heavier rifles. Also I had to take the Ruger in to have trigger work done on it. That being said it does shoot accurately.

So I would say it depends on how you will use it...if you are going to be walking a lot I would get the lighter rifle. If you are going to be stand hunting...which is what I do...then I would buy a heavier rifle.

And I agree with the others. You can get an accurate rifle without having to purchase a custom rifle. So it depends on what you want. I absolutely love my 3 CZs and most likely will buy another one when it is time to buy again simply because my experience so far has been great and I love the single set trigger.

[moooose102]

IMO, first, it is going to depend on the terrain you will be hunting in. if you have to carry an 8 pound gun up and down mountains all day for two weeks, you will quickly regret buying it! but if your traveling consist of a couple of hundred yard trecks to a blind, you will enjoy the reduced recoil of the heavy gun. as for specific models, i really cant help you much there. i dont get to shoot hundreds of rifles a year, so my experiences are quite limited. as for caliber, go a couple of steps heavier than what is required to kill the animal you are hunting. (just for example, if you are hunting deer in michign, a 30-30 is a good gun, and will kill on most shots you will get. in that case, i would get a 308 or 30-06. my reasoning is this. if you get a 250-300 yard shot, the 30-30 is going to be marginal at best. and the -06 will take it no problems. if you shoot a deer closer, no big deal. dead is dead. if you go crazy, say 340 weatherby mag, you are just putting other people at risk. as far as recoil goes, really, the only time recoil is going to bother you is at the range. so if that is the case, there are many things you can do to reduce it. but for me, 30-06 is a very manageable shooter as is. if you find it objectionable, screw a limbsaver to the back of that rifle and enjoy.

[federalfarmer]

control round feed, NOT push fed!
oh and left hand action!

[H&Hhunter]

Rugged and simple. (Mauser style or M-70 style trigger, simple Mauser style bolt and action)

A sear block safety (That counts out all M-700's and many other modern rifles.) Trigger block safeties are by design less safe than a sear block safety period end of story!

Controlled round feeding is not essential on non DG rifles but it will have to feed smoothly and reliably no matter the action type. And I prefer CRF rifles as a well put together CRF rifle will always feed and function more reliably and smother than a push feed.

Fit is important.

If I can't make it shoot accurately it goes away.

Trigger pull is important but most can be modified or changed if needed.

[federalfarmer]

CRF not important !? Have you ever been bitten by a rabbit ?! Seriously I would not build/buy anything over $1,000 with out it, you want something nice do it right.

[H&Hhunter]

FF.

I said not ESSENTIAL on a non DG rifle. Nowhere did I say not IMPORTANT..:D;)

I only own one bolt gun that isn't CRF.

[Legionnaire]

IMO, first, it is going to depend on the terrain you will be hunting in.That, and the game. Lots of good stuff posted thus far.

I guess I'm less fastidious than most. I want a rifle that is "accurate enough" from field positions. I consider under 2 MOA sufficient for large game, as it will keep a round in the kill zone out to what I consider ethical distance on deer-sized game. Do I prefer more accuracy? Yes, but 2 MOA is sufficient if I really like the rifle for other reasons.

Weight, fit, and good trigger are my other main concerns. I mostly hunt the wooded hills of PA, so I generally prefer a quick pointing, lightweight, carbine-length rifle. My "go to" rifle is a Remington Model Seven in .308. It has a good quality (Leupold Vari-X II) 2-7X compact scope mounted, and is sufficient for almost all my big game hunting. I have heavier guns, and more accurate. But the Model Seven is the cat's meow in the field.

[moooose102]

FIT!
FIT!
accuracy
enough power to kill anything in north america
beautiful wood & finish
as light of weight as can be reasonably be made (i do not want a 5 pound 338 win mag!)
good sling, or at least swivel studs
variable power scope
and a good established caliber (i do not want something my kids will not be able to find shells for 30 years from now)