[firestar]

What is the best "car gun" for the money?

The way I define a "car gun" is: it has to be medium sized and chambered in a cal that is respectable. It should be inexpensive in case it gets stolen but still should be of high quality. It should be as close to 100% reliable as possible. It should be small enough to fit in a coat pocket if needed or stuck in a wasteband. Accuracy is not the most important consideration but is always helpful.

Here are some of my considerations:

Makarov

Star BM

Star Firestar

Bersa .380

RAP 401

What else fits the bill? I am leaning towards the Star BM right now but I need to shoot it enough to see if it is reliable.

[blazer610]

I had the same criteria. I chose the Star-BM for my truck gun and I'm pleased. The gun is much more accurate than I expected. After 300 rounds it is completely reliable. The trigger is really great and the mag disconnect safety is very simple to disable. The only things I see as negatives are the small sights and future parts availability concerns.

I like it better than the Mak and Bersa simply because of caliber. The Firestar is a nice gun but I like the single action trigger on the BM. I'm sure the RAP would be a fantastic truck gun, it just costs $100 more than the Star-BM.


Larry

[farscott]

My answer was a police trade-in S&W 4006 with night sights. Less than $375 out the door, and the only real wear is holster wear. It is a very reliable, albeit a bit blocky, pistol. Gives me eleven rounds of .40 S&W before I need to reload.

Police trade-ins often make good truck guns since they are often good deals and are already cosmetically challenged.

[10-Ring]

My answer to the same question was to get a used version of my favorite pistol...I went w/ a USPc 9 :)

[DMK]

I know this is the autoloader forum, but it seems to me that a cheap, used, short barrelled, S&W .38 special K frame would do the job nicely.

Out of your list, I'd pick the Mak. You can say a lot of bad stuff about the Soviet regime, but everyone pretty much agrees that they made some pretty tough small arms.

[Snowdog]

It should be small enough to fit in a coat pocket if needed or stuck in a wasteband


Well, there goes my CZ-52 suggestion. That 7.62x25's hot 85gr FMJ @ 1500 FPS is a auto body buster if one ever existed. They're cheap, rugged and you won't deal with any guilt trips for leaving a $100 in your glove box.

That said, I would also look into that RAP 401; the reports I've heard so far are quite promising.

[Futo Inu]

Why not full-sized? Plenty of room for holding/concealing a full sized pistol in a car. Oh, OK, small enough to put in waistband. Hmmm, no this requirement does not make sense to me, because I'll already also be carrying my compact carry gun, be it my P3AT or Wilson KZ45 compact. Car gun should be full-sized, double stack high-capacity pistol, IMO, for a little more firepower than the CCW piece. YMMV.

My car gun WILL BE a CZ75. Right now it's a Springfield loaded, locked in a safe bolted to the floorboard. But good choices there...

[firestar]

The CZ-52 would make a great car gun also. I have one that has been reliable and it would no doubt slice through a car like a hot knife through warm butter. The problem I have with the CZ-52 as a defensive gun is, the safety is up for safe and sometimes when I am shooting it at the range, the recoil will push my thumb into the safety and engage it. This has happened enough that I don't trust it as a defensive gun. Somtimes, I will engage the safety just by picking it up and gripping it. I don't have large hands so I assume this happens to people with big hands even more often.

I suppose I could pin the safety in the down position to stop this but that would defeat the de-cock feature which is good to have.


The Firestar is a nice gun but I like the single action trigger on the BM.
The Firestar is single action also.

[AUTIGER04]

The only guns that I have any experience with on your list is the Makarov and Bersa. I say that the Makarov is the best car gun and otherwise gun.

[USGuns]

Ruger P95.

[Blueduck]

With farscott.

Police surplus S/W's can often be bought scary cheap. I've was very impressed with both the 4506 and 4006 I owned. Hear very little bad about the 9mm's reliability wise.

[gconan]

That said, I would also look into that RAP 401; the reports I've heard so far are quite promising.

What is a "RAP 401" ?

[heathen]

gconan, see this thread for RAP 401's

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=33102&highlight=rap+401

[Voodoo]

also...

PA63
Bersa .380

Personally, I'd go with a wheelgun. A used Smith M10 would fit the bill nicely! :)

[Matthew_Q]

I'd throw my vote for the Bersa. $200 for a great little pistol. Can't beat that with a stick!

Otherwise, I'd try to get something like a Sistema or an old beater .380 auto.

[David4516]

Makarov isn't a bad choice. But then again I always say that ;)

I also like the idea of 7.62X25 as a 'car' caliber. How about a Tokarev TT33?

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/APR-02/mausertt.jpg

A good wheel gun might not be a bad choice either, you won't have to worry about wearing out springs...

[tiberius]

For you Firestar, Without question, get a Kel Tec P-11. :)

[firestar]

No thanks, I don't like junk.:rolleyes:

[Dr.Rob]

Bigger pockets = enforcer carbine.

Kidding, though I met an FBI guy who did just that.

If its a car gun, concealing it is a second thought. Full size FEG Hi-power clone, K Frame SW 357, Ballester-Molina 45 all work for me.

[LeonCarr]

A "car gun" should also be able to provide decent penetration on windshields and car bodys.

My first choice: police trade-in/reconditioned Glock 17 (they go for around 300-350 bucks if you look around), loaded with IMI 9mm +P black tip carbine ammo or a 9mm NATO equivalent.

My second choice: police trade-in .357 Revolver (Smith,Ruger,Colt, etc, start around 200 bucks), loaded with Fiocchi .357 142 grain FMJTC ammo.

Honorable Mention: Any Ruger P-Series auto. They make an excellent impact weapon also :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[KeysBear]

My car gun is a S&W .357 Model 19. Cheap enough at $200.00 used. My car gun for the other car is a Makarov - even cheaper at $129.00.

Makarovs rock. :)

Regards, Keys :cool:

[Gordon]

Sigma in it's plastic box with 14-17 rounds in gun and extra loaded mag! Contrary to what you hear I have found them reliable; just not as good as a glock!. I up graded to a CZ97 .45 but could not stomach the abuse to this fine piece so I stuck it under my mattress (the 1911's are in the safe!) . If you like pop guns anyone of the 9X18 Maks will do (I like the PA-63) esp. for the gals. I think auto's have an advantage over revolvers as a stored gun in vehicles. I think plastic guns are best in this role because of vibration damage to metal finishes.;)

[WonderNine]

I just had a thought about having to fire a 7.62X25 from inside of a car. :what:

Can we say shattered eardrums....

Btw, I really like what I've seen with the Star BM9. Even saw one in person at the gunshow Saturday. Sounds like a neat little pistol for the price. I may have to order one here eventually.

A good wheel gun might not be a bad choice either, you won't have to worry about wearing out springs...

Oh really? Revolvers have springs too....

[Blueduck]

Not mag springs they don't ;)

None of the designs I'm aware of have any springs under significant pressure when left loaded. The springs in a loaded semi's magazine are under pressure.

I know "somebody" once found a old 1911 left loaded for 60 years and it worked great, I know lots more people that have found a magazine left loaded for a couple of months or less that has killed the spring enough to cause reliability issues YMMV

[WonderNine]

Not mag springs they don't ;)

Ah details...:)

Anyways, pressure doesn't really measureably weaken springs unless given a very long amount of time.

The act of compressing them repeatedly through their range of motion is what does. Use is what weakens springs, not having a constant force (within specs) acting against them.

[KeysBear]

If you like pop guns anyone of the 9X18 Maks will do (I like the PA-63) esp. for the gals.

Nothing "pop gun" about a Makarov. It is a proven military sidearm that those who were issued them swear by and still choose to carry for civilian use.

Regards, Keys :cool:

[Ky Larry]

My truck guns are my fullsize Kimber .45 ACP which I take out of the holster and stick between the seat next to my thigh. The other gun I carry is a Winchester 1300 Defender 12 gauge loaded with alternating loads of 00buck and slugs. I keep it behind the seat for serious social work.

[RON in PA]

Of your list, the Makarov.

Better yet a Ruger P95

Also very good, used Smith and Ruger revolvers.

[Texas Bob]

:) Not on your list but I thought I would throw out what I use and why. HS2000, bought right before they started stamping them XD's. Poly frame is temp neutral in hot or cold weather, light rail for M3 tac-light, inexpensive mags, grip safety, and ability to handle speer gold dot 124 +p's. I modified it by adding XS's 24/7 big dot express sights(carjackings are measured in feet not yards) and every spring Robar has a 20% off sale, so what they call the Norton special is coating everything but the "frame" in NP3 for $126. My total outlay was $521, not the most inexpensive, but I'm worth it.:evil:

[CZ52GUY]

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/makarov.htm

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/BestBuys.htm

Excellent information on two of your choices...

Good luck,

CZ52'

[Win75]

My car gun is a 9mm Smith & Wesson 5906 with adjustable three dot sights. Since I got it in a trade for cheap, I list it as reasonably priced.

It shoots well, is heavy enough for accurate multiple shots, and being pre-B.C. it sports the 15 round mags so I can carry a lot of firepower if needed.

David.

[TheeBadOne]

Best Bang For The Buck http://www.udink.org/pictures/09192002/139-3972_img.jpg

[Kevinch]

You could have stopped typing your list after the first entry:

MAKAROV

[Jeff OTMG]

My ultimate car gun is a Calico 9mm carbine with the collapsible stock, but since this is a handgun forum I would say the Calico Liberty. You get a 50 or 100 round magazine and can release the spring tension with the push of a button. Just wind it up when you go. I have a laser on mine as well. Shooting FMJ it is reliable and has decent penetration. At night you can hold the gun over your head out the sunroof and point forward or back using the laser dot, and possibly your rear view mirror, to engage. If you don't happen to have a sunroof, as in my truck, you can still shoot left handed out the open window, the outside rear view mirror makes a good rest. Before I had a Calico I used a Steyr GB for its 18 round magazine.

[WonderNine]

Best Bang For The Buck

Don't get me started :rolleyes: We don't seem to agree on much, do we? :D


firestar, if your Star BM turns out to still be reliable when you shoot it a few more times, I see no reason why it shouldn't be at the top of your list for "car gun". The Rap 401 sounds a little "overbuilt" and heavy, but not that that's a bad thing in this day and age :D

Mak? No, a little too weak, but still a nice gun. Probably the second best choice though as far as reliability. I know of your SMALL reliability problems with your Star model B related to the magazine, have you worked that out?

My only problem with the BM is the short barrel when that is not really necessary for a car gun. But then again, it's also the type of gun you could pull out of the glovebox and carry CCW in an emergency. And yet, with my larger frame, I could do that easily with a full sized gun too.

Have you shot any hollowpoints through your BM yet?

Is the trigger creepy at all?

I guess it all boils down to what pistol you have the most confidence in regarding reliability and being able to hit what you're shooting at.

[Kevinch]

Mak? No, a little too weak, but still a nice gun. Probably the second best choice though as far as reliability.

:confused: I don't quite understand that statement - all the Maks I know are 100% reliable, & I don't know how that can be 2nd place....

Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

[makdaddy03]

Star, Bersa, Llama and your Jennings. Atleast you wont have to worry about any stealing them.:evil: :neener: :evil:

[firestar]

"The Rap 401 sounds a little "overbuilt" and heavy, but not that that's a bad thing in this day and age

I know of your SMALL reliability problems with your Star model B related to the magazine, have you worked that out?


Is the trigger creepy at all?"

The RAP is a little over built and it doesn't have the grace of the Star.

I tweaked the follower on my mag in the Star B and it has been almost 100% ever since. I don't trust it enough to use it as a CCW or any type of defensive gun. The mag is the main problem with this gun, it just isn't designed for the 9x19. There will always be the possibility that it will jam due to the mag so it is just a fun range gun for me. The BM was designed as a 9x19 from the get go so I don't expect any particular problems with it.

The triggers are not creepy at all. The trigger is one of the best points that the BM has.