[AZRickD]

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/28/loc_bronson28.html

The article above, concerning the recent Ohio Supreme Court ruling
allowing the continuation of the ban on concealed carry, has some
excellent arguements in it which you might wish to use in the future.
Since the dissenting opinion said that open carry is legal, today, the
Ohio boys are having an open-carry day in Cincy. http://www.ohioccw.org/

--here is a preliminary report on that event--

--snip--

Cincinnati Walk went well. I just got back got to meet a couple great people
there from OFCC. We had no hitches and very little opposition to speak of.
The Police were fine and the very few people in opposition were at least
likeable for the most part even though there thinking was somewhat clouded.
Not sure by what.:)

--snip--

Rick

PS, the web site below, has a pro or con CCW in Ohio poll with only 68
votes so far. Vote if you feel like it.

http://www.onnnews.com/

[Tamara]

Voted. Thanks for the link.

Rise up, my Ohio brethren and sistren! :cool:

[geegee]

I live in Texas, but my employer is in Ohio-I was gald to cast my "yes" vote! :D geegee

[Fly320s]

My vote is in.

Here's the score:

160 votes

Yes=85%
No=15%

[AZRickD]

Here's another preliminary report:I just returned from the walk in Cincinnati this afternoon. After I have a bite to eat and finish a few chores around the house, I'll write a more detailed impression of it.

The Reader' Digest version..it went very well and it was a great experience.
I met some very nice people (including one of the counter-walkers) and had a
pleasant walk through a great turn-of-the-century Ohio neighborhood. The police were there, always within sight and were as nice as could be.

I took some digital pictures (if they came out ok). I'll pass them along to
OFCC and they're welcome to post them if they want.

I'm ready to attend and support the next march. And the next and the next...

Tom

[Bigjake]

if someone would carry me perhaps. sorry i couldn't make it. confined to bed this week mono :( . i was with you guys in spirit... while watching the nascar race :neener:

[Pheonix]

AZRickD Could you post in the title that there is a poll that needs everyones attention?


I also cannot wait to hear more about how things went. Anybody willing to have one on a weekday?

[Bigjake]

when and where?

[El Tejon]

Keep fighting, neighbors! We're with you.:)

[AZRickD]

When: Today, around noon-ish.
Where: Down some neighborhood street. I suggested that they do it in a business district and flock to a few gun-friendly shops to commit random acts of commerce.

This just in:

http://www.onnnews.com/story.php?record=26938

"With guns holstered at their sides, about 50 people marched down
neighborhood sidewalks in Cincinnati Sunday."

I hope they aren't willing to trade constitutional open-carry without a permit for legislative concealed carry with a permit. That would suck.

Rick

[AZRickD]

I'd like to echo Tom's sentiments.

The open-carry walk today was an incredibly enlightening experience; it
was refreshing to be able to exercise my rights without fear of being
cited for "inducing panic". It was also a joy to meet and converse with
all of the other participants who were, to a man (or woman), thoughtful,
intelligent and friendly.

The event went smoothly. Even the few protesters (less than a dozen that
I could see) seemed to be friendly. The Cincinnati Police officers on
duty seemed to tacitly approve of our Sunday afternoon stroll through
Northside, and I was greeted warmly by every officer I had the pleasure
to speak with. One one occasion, a patrolman not only waved as he drove
by, but enthusiastically saluted us!

The media present seemed genuinely interested in getting the whole
story, and there was abundant coverage by reporters, photographers and
cameramen.

Local residents that I passed seemed either unfazed, or somewhat pleased
at our activity. We were greeted warmly by several members of the public
along the route.

Again, I can't say enough what a refreshing event this was. It seems
that we DO have some rights, after all. I would encourage everyone who
cares about our rights to defend ourselves to help organize or
participate in similar future "Open-carry" events. I'm sure that there
will be more. I plan to drive whatever distance needed to continue my
participation in other events.

Jason Powell
Cincinnati, OH

[AZRickD]

My impression of today's open carry "Self-Defense" walk.

First a thank-you to Vernon Ferrier and his friends for organizing this
event. Thank you! It was well thought out and organized, making participating very easy. Having the printed forms available to read and sign, listing the rules for the walk, left no doubt as to the conduct expected of the participants. Any future self-defence walks that are organized, would do well touse your experience as a starting place.

I noticed that a press release stated the number of participants as 50. That
sounds about right. I didn't make a head count and I'm really bad at crowd
estimating so that number sounds pretty good.

The mix of people was about as you would expect. Some old guys like myself, some younger women and men, and everything in between. From my past experience meeting pro self-protection people, this was the norm. People from across the spectrum as far as age and occupation. Being pro-CCW wasn't the only thing we had in common, the folks I met were also polite and friendly. I had a nice time chatting with a few of them, both before and during the walk. It may surprise the anti-CCW people but very little of the conversations were about concealed carry and none of the conversations I was involved in mentioned "guns" as a topic. We talked about everything from the weather to the neat old homes in the neighborhood.

The press seemed to be well represented. I don't know who all of them were, but there was a rep. from the Enquirer and from Channel 9. They shot video and photos from about every angle conceivable, all along the route. Very interesting to watch and very professionally done in my opinion. (I have no past experience to base this on) I wasn't interviewed, but that's probably a good thing. I'm normally pretty gabby, but I'm not sure how I would react to speaking "on the record". A lot of "Uhhh's" and "Duhhs", I suspect.

There were counter protesters there. About 8 of them I believe. A smaller
group than I would have guessed but they we doing their best. They followed along on the route with us, and were as well behaved as we were. A couple of younger guys with "super soakers" were a bit vocal, but I heard no shouts, they made their point (whatever it was) without being rude or vulgar in the least. No, I don't agree with the anti-CCW viewpoint, but I can't anything bad about the way the opposition behaved.

The local police were there. Probably more of them than I realized, but the
way they handled the event was great. They were there, but they weren't
intrusive. If you made a point of looking for them (in between conversations about early 1900s architecture) they were there, it made you feel like you were being watched over not put under a microscope. Thanks go to them all for making the walk a positive experience for us and I'm sure, making the people living in the area feel ok about having so many strangers walking around the neighborhood.

As interesting as the walk was, next comes the real interesting part and the
reason for having the event. How will this be protrayed in the press?
Certainly I have my own perspective of the rally. It was quiet, it was respectful of the people in the area, and it was uneventful. There were lots of handguns in plain view. There were plenty of photographers to snap close-ups of them. Now to see if the connection is made in the press between the walk, the openly carried firearms, and the group's preference to have a good concealed carry law in place for Ohio citizens instead of open carry. I'll carry openly if that's the only way we're allowed to provide for self-protection with a firearm, but my goal is still to have the same rights as all of the people in our surrounding states. The upcoming week will be interesting, folks.

Will I attend another freedom-walk? You bet I will. And I encourage all of
you to participate as well. No walk in your area? Organize one! I'd like to come and meet you.

Tom

[Standing Wolf]

Keep up the good work, Ohioans!

[Black92LX]

i too attended the rally this afternoon. and thought it was a great success. i was probably one of the youngest partakers except for some kids that came with parents. it was good to meet people that share my same views.
unfortunatly i didn't carry because the government doesn't feel i can be trusted with a handgun, but my owning any long gun is just fine. :cuss:

the anti's make me laugh a little. Henry Bowman (from THR) and i a decent conversation with one of the woman in opposition. i am very surprised at how uneducated about the topic they really are. she tried to tell me that it is unlaw to keep a loaded weapon in my house. and as i passed one fella he just kept repeating "potential murder" i had to laugh at that one too. another guy kept saying things like "man you parked in my spot i am gonna blast you" i just wanted to say look man we aren't gangbangers just looking for trouble. just lawabiding citizens choosing to use the freedom granted to us by the founders of this country. just like you are doing coming out here and voicing you opinion.

i didn't really understand why the black panthers decided to attend. they were in support of the concealed carry, but against us because me were mostly made up of white males. (stated by chanel 5 news)

Phil Heimlich was in attendance, and i truely appreciated this. being that i have know Mr Heimlich since he was my sunday school teacher in 4th, 5th, and 6th grade. i am glad he is on our side because he is definatly a fighter.

if more of these happen i would really like to know. what is the best way to stay in the loop with the local activities.

the news i saw at 6:00 on 5 and 9 had good stories, and i have been seeing previews for the 11 that included snippits about the walk.

[Pheonix]

I just watched the clip from ONN. It looked like there was about 10 of you there and fewer anti's. The overall tone was neutral, however the reporter sounded somewhat anti. The way she said that these guys wanted to "pack heat" was a little harsh. The anti interviewees (is that a word?) were scarry not going to cause much harm. There was an interview with one of "our guys" but the sound was bad and he spoke too fast for me to figure out what was said. There were two antis interviewed.

[Black92LX]

where id you find the video clip i can't find it??

[TimW]

One thing I do find interesting is that folks in Ohio actually expected the Supreme Court there to rule based on what your Constitution clearly states.

"A word means what I say it means...no more, no less."

Both the judiciary and the legislature have taken Lewis Carroll to hear in whatever they do. Having run for office, sponsored several initiatives, I understand how this would be played out.

I only wish Vegas had had odds on the outcome...I could have cleaned up.

These "freedom walks" will be allowed for a time, then "inducing panic" will spring its ugly head and/or those pro-RKBA folks will get bored when nothing comes of it.

It will be reintroduced into your legislature, and those that support you will continue to do so, while the system ensures that it never passes.

Until you can cause massive political pain to those who oppose this, it won't change, IMO.

You governor won't sign because the unions won't let him...I mean, won't approve it.

Of course, the rank-and-file cops will likely support you, but the brass will not. And since the cop unions have to make deals with the brass and city councils and legislature, well...you already know what's going to happen.

[Pheonix]

Black92lx I saw it on TV on ONN.

TimW... you are really depressing me!

[TimW]

Phoenix,

Sorry 'bout that. I think AzRickD will agree to a large extent...though he's much better versed on actual OH politics than I am and has been in contact with the folks there for quite some time.

Me? I've been involved with AZ gun politics since about 1997-1998, so am still a neophyte in the area, but I think I've had enough experience with the politicos and judiciary to give me a darn good idea about one thing:

they will do whatever the heck they feel like doing, laws or Constitution be damned.

[AZRickD]

Fight on, brethren.

Strike while the iron is still hot. Toledo is dazed and confused. File a lawsuit. Let's see if the Supreme Court can ignore its own decision.

BTW, I'm told that there were well over 60 signatures on the march tally.

Now, why they had a sign-in sheet is beyond me.

In Arizona, we don't have sign-in sheets and we don't have march leaders. A leader means a group. A group needs a permit to protest. A permit means they can tell you where you can go and when.

No leader really nuts up the cops. The first thing the cops (they're always acting 'friendly') do is say, "Hey, cool protest. Who's the leader?"

What leader? I'm just here exercising my rights as an individual. I heard about it in the paper/TV/internet.

Rick

[TimW]

No leader really nuts up the cops. The first thing the cops (they're always acting 'friendly') do is say, "Hey, cool protest. Who's the leader?"

This is a very good tactic that we've used over and over to good effect....like when we were at the Bush/Gore "discussions" in downtown Phoenix....several of us carried openly. One cop actually thought that I was with some agency because I was wearing a gun.

"So, who are you with?"
"Excuse me?"
"What agency?"
"Oh...I am with those protestors over there...no agency...just exercising my first and second amendment rights..."

The look on her face was priceless.

But AzRickD is right...groups need permits, which is how they shut folks down. If you're there exercising your individual right to free speec, whatever, well.....

[Black92LX]

i don't believe any permit was involved. the police gave us no troubles what so ever. none even got out of their cars except to stop traffic for us. i really think that a lot of the LEO's around here agree with the idea of concealed carry. unfortunatly it's not their decision.

[Pheonix]

Were you able to carry loaded there? I cannot find any laws in my area stating either way.

[Black92LX]

i believe it is legal except when in a motor vehicle, but for this most people carried unloaded.

[boyd425]

It's a little hard for me to believe that someone active in politics can say;

"These "freedom walks" will be allowed for a time, ...
It will be reintroduced into your legislature, and those that support you will continue to do so, while the system ensures that it never passes."

These freedom walks are -precisely- the sort of grassroots groundpounding political action that will ensure that "the system" (whatever that means) will hear and heed the voice of the people. This isn't a bannana republic yet, these people are not leaders for life, they face YOUR vote at the next election.
Walks like these unite people around the cause of freedom, they wake people up to the potential of their own votes and they will shake politicians who think that they wield the reins of society down to their very cores. Wake up! And be happy that people are waking up and showing up for these kinds of excellent events! Let people celebrate something like this for a day or two before exhorting them on to tougher action. In My Humble (Washingtonian) Opinion, Ohioans should be proud of this kind of peaceable demonstration and the media attention it drew to the cause of freedom. -Boyd Kneeland

[boyd425]

Oh, and that (shaking up those in power) is of course why the panthers were there too. They've got almost a half century of doing just that under their belts, and a good portion of that spent fighting for the right of black people to Keep and Bear Arms. Superficially, an alliance there might not seem like an obvious fit. But for media reasons that might be a reason to make one happen. All just IMO. Boyd Kneeland

[AZRickD]

What Tim is saying is that (almost) every time we have done this, the bad guys have attempted to mount a defense.

Just be prepared and act accordingly.

Rick

[TimW]

Walks like these unite people around the cause of freedom, they wake people up to the potential of their own votes and they will shake politicians who think that they wield the reins of society down to their very cores. Wake up! And be happy that people are waking up and showing up for these kinds of excellent events!

Waking up? I'd hardly call 50 pro-gun people waking up. These were likely the same people who've worked day in , day out over the past several years trying to push this through the legislature.

Where were the "regular" gunnies?

It's been my experience, and I believe that in most cases AzRickD will agree, that it's the same people doing all the work, showing up at all the rallies, etc. ad nauseum. This is why it will disappear after a short time, and the politicos know it.

AzRickD, how many folks from Phoenix showed up at the legislature during the hearings for our first attempt to have clean preemption passed? About 30, would you say? And about 5-8 of them were from Tucson (2 hour drive). How many showed up the second time (after our first attempt was defeated)?

Who's been willing to sponsor this legislation this time (besides Ken)? Nope, not even you or me.

The anti's know they've time on their side...our folks have lives, jobs, etc. We go at it hard, hoping to change things right away based on the righteousness of our cause, the clarity of the Constitution (state and national) and the supposedly unambiguousness of the law.

A few pimp-slaps from the court (like OH just got) and the True Believers get disheartened and see the process for the sham that it is.

Out of curisousity, how close to retirement are the two OH justices who voted in favor of CCW as being Constitutional?

When you play on their court, the game is rigged...no matter what happens, government always wins. You need to take the fight to your turf, not play the game, or play the game such that the government doesn't know you're playing the game.

Since judges are elected / retained / whatever, they too have to play the political game, especially if they want to advance from a simple Municipal or Superior Court bench. Just look at the crap Bush's nominees to the federal bench are getting. You don't think that happens on a local level?

Since judges are elected, prosecutors are elected, there are automatically 2 government employees working against you, regardless of the supposed independence of the judiciary. Yes, there are exceptions, but those prove the rule, IMO.

[boyd425]

I guess I just don't get it. If we are doomed, why are we posting here? You don't seem to think there are any options... should I be spending the 50 bucks I month I send to my ISP on hemlock?
Boyd (not planning on that, but curious about the plan here) Kneeland

[gunsmith]

to be done in every state that does not have open and concealed carry.
RKBA means carry anyway you dang please!
you don't need a permit to right a letter or carry a Bible! carrying
guns is a right granted by God not the state.
we need to do this in CA/NY

[boyd425]

Tim, please forget I asked the question ; )
You typed:
----------
Waking up? I'd hardly call 50 pro-gun people waking up. These were likely the same people who've worked day in , day out over the past several years trying to push this through the legislature.
Where were the "regular" gunnies?
----------
Re "50 people": I was doing a bit of fire for effect because I personally know what it's like to work in a political movement where people only see the worst of what's going on and never acknowledge the victories. Those 50 people were a -victory- because they had good media effect. When the battle for our countries independence was begun, far fewer then 10 percent of the colonists supported the cause, at the peak of the civil war battles it was around 13% actively involved. Those 50 people represent the 10 percent who get out and accomplish stuff, they are the point of the spear that turns social trends around. And throwing cold water on their efforts, rather then lauding the good they did, is no service IMHO.
Live I've said, we don't have to be realistic to the point of smacking ourselves around for doing good. We can take a minute to be glad for the good we do. And getting 50 intelligible representatives of our cause out in front of cameras showing the other 90% the good that CCW can do is something worth celebrating a little. Sorry if you don't see it that way.

-Boyd Kneeland, Second Amendment Foundation Director of Communications, NRA Election Volunteer Coordinator Wa-08, Washington Arms Collectors Board member, NRA instructor and pragmatic grass roots activist.

[Brett Bellmore]

Those 50 people just showed 5,000 people that you can do that without getting arrested. Do it again, and you might get more folks.

[Black92LX]

i would say it was around 80 people. because they went in two groups.

[AZRickD]

You'll have to forgive Tim. He's a political war horse whose glass is often half-empty.

Carry on.

Rick
Resting

[AZRickD]

The Ohio activists have begun to contact the bureaucrats for a dialog on the law.

Here is one such report:Holy smokes!! I just got off the phone with the city law director (Hamilton City), and I was pleasantly surprised, in fact I'd say I was shocked!

She said she was perfectly aware of open carry being completely legal in Ohio, and that the police Chief, whom I am still waiting to talk to, was completely aware of his constitutional and legal obligations to the people of Hamilton, and assured me he would echo exactly what she was telling me.

She said that she couldn't gaurantee me an officer wouldn't approach me, if a citizen called 911 for example. But once he/she knew I was just walking down the street, there would be absolutely no problem.

She did bring up something I have never heard of though. A private citizen could bring a warrant against me (???), which is a criminal charge, not a civil one (I asked), and depending upon the evidence, and the prosecutor, I could be charged with a crime. This would involve a court case, but so long as I was innocent of any wrong doing, a conviction (for what I dunno) would be unlikely.

So at the worst, your looking at a private citizen pressing charges, which would involve a court case, but no conviction. AT THE WORST. I think it is very unlikely many people even know about this ability (I didn't), and are more likely to call 911, and be relieved when an officer gives everything a look over.

I honestly don't go out of the house often except commuting to and from work, and jogging 3 times a week. Staring today though, I am carrying openly.

[Black92LX]

AZRickD where did you find that??

[P95Carry]

Rock on dudes ..... I cast my vote for reason and sanity .... may the outcome one day be what it should be already.

Don't give up, whatever you do.

[AZRickD]

There is a private, moderated list serve you might be able to get on.

Go to http://www.ofcc.net/

Apply within.

Rick