Glock or HiPoint?


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RichieV
January 21, 2009, 07:06 PM
First off, hello again...long time lurker, occasional poster. I've always appreciated the information and insight I've gained from contributors to this site.

Anyway, as for the question I've posted. Suppose someone comes to you for a recommendation as to what handgun to purchase.

This person has very limited knowledge of firearms, but appreciates their usefulness and is interested in one for the purposes of self-protection as well as the protection of loved ones. Also, this person has limited funds and something in the price range of a new Glock with a few incidentals (holster, practice ammo, etc.) represents the extent to which he or she can afford to spend.

Would you recommend the purchase of that Glock, OR, instead would you recommend that he or she gets a Hi-Point and use the rest of that unspent money on a defensive handgun course that would train that person to effectively fight with the new handgun?

Now the reason I say Hi-Point is because it's one of those guns where gun enthusiasts go "Ewwww...Hi-Point? I would never buy that POS!", but by most accounts here on this site and elsewhere, it's a reliable firearm that works when you need it and sends bullets where you want them to go.

So: Glock with no training, or Hi-Point *with* training?

I say Hi-Point with training!

I used to be one of those guys who, for years, would get this shiny new gun and that shiny new gun as funds allow, but never wanted to take the training. Training is expensive! Why spend the money on training when I can get another toy to play with? And with my new toys, I'd go to the range and try to double tap COM at seven yards, or see if I could put all my rounds in a full size silhouette at 25 yards, and, after accomplishing all of that, I'd be completely satisfied that I knew how to shoot a gun and shoot it well.

Eventually, after seeing something on TV about Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, I decided that training wouldn't be a bad idea after all, and signed up for a handgun course (at Tactical Response, fwiw...definitely recommended). Wow, what an eye opener! I knew I could handle a gun safely. I knew I could aim a gun and put a bullet in a target. But I never knew how to *fight* with a gun.

Before, I thought that simply because I had guns at my disposal and could shoot them accurately, I could sufficiently defend myself if I had to. While having a gun is better than no gun at all, the knowledge of how to fight with a gun greatly increases your chances of survivability.

When a friend asked me for a recommendation for a handgun for defensive purposes, I thought to myself that I could recommend something, but will he know how to use it? Will he be lulled, as I did, into thinking that owning a gun and practicing a little bit will be enough to suit his purposes of effectively defending his life and the lives of his family? If he takes a decent class, then he’ll be much better off then if he get just the gun alone.

So whenever I'm asked for a recommendation as to which gun to buy, if it's for self-defense, I always strongly recommend that whatever they get, make sure to take training! Because the most effective weapon is not what's in your hand, it's what's in your head.

Anyway, any comments would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post!

--Richard

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tostada
January 21, 2009, 07:27 PM
I would tend to agree with you, because Hi-Points are cheap and plenty reliable.

But I would still say the guy should handle the guns before he gets them. If you've got a Hi-Point for him to shoot, that's great, but otherwise he's much more likely to be able to try out a Glock at any range.

Other things I would consider is that he can get a used Glock that'll still be totally reliable, or he may be able to get someone to get him a LEO discount on a new Glock.

Also, if he gets comfortable with the gun he might want to get his CCW, and a Hi-Point isn't gonna fit that bill. With that in mind, maybe he'd want to look at a compact Bersa Thunder .308 or 9mm. They're cheap, reliable, comfortable to shoot, and are small enough to carry.

alaskagunner
January 21, 2009, 07:28 PM
I'd tell them to buy a USED Glock or something like it AND get some basic training. I saw a fellow shooting a Hi Point have it blow up in his hand the other day. :what:

IMO, training is a must. They could even take training and possibly borrow/rent a gun. After getting comfortable with safe gun handling they may be more willing to fork over a little more cash for protection of self and loved ones.

willmartin
January 21, 2009, 07:45 PM
Wow tostada, a Bersa .308? I bet that packs quite a punch. Not good for a beginner's gun. ;-)

Justin
January 21, 2009, 08:03 PM
Buy quality once. Go with the Glock and save up for further training. In the meantime, if you have any expertise with shooting handguns, take him to the range and teach him everything you can.

woodfiend
January 21, 2009, 08:12 PM
:eek: You almost just gave me a heart attack when you asked that. I didn't even think that such a question could be asked! Glocks are surely a gift from God!

Dr. Fresh
January 21, 2009, 08:15 PM
If the person has little or no experience, I'd recommend something with more than just a trigger safety. XD maybe, or a used S&W auto or something.

tostada
January 21, 2009, 08:29 PM
"Wow tostada, a Bersa .308? I bet that packs quite a punch. Not good for a beginner's gun. ;-)"

Oops! Yeah, I guess a .308 would be less concealable than a Hi-Point.




"If the person has little or no experience, I'd recommend something with more than just a trigger safety. XD maybe, or a used S&W auto or something.""

I don't believe people who say you should learn with a gun with an external hammer and/or a bunch of safeties before you use a Glock. To the contrary, I think you'd be better off not having the idea in the back of your mind that there's a safety on the gun so it's OK to leave your finger on the trigger.

pith43
January 21, 2009, 08:52 PM
i'm not a huge Glock fan, but they are reliable, and accurate.

FWIW, I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a gun for self defense. What's your life or your family's worth? Buy a good reliable gun, and then shoot the crap out of it. Having the confidence to know that your gun is going to shoot whenever you pull the trigger is priceless. Just my $.02

GoodKat
January 21, 2009, 09:17 PM
Glocks are surely a gift from God!
Bah, considering the condition of the world today, I expect "gifts from God" to come in the form of package bombs.

Ringer
January 21, 2009, 09:31 PM
So: Glock with no training, or Hi-Point *with* training?

As far as guns go, Glocks are not that expensive. Since the gun is for protection I don't think it's worth the risk in saving a few hundred dollars.

How about buy a used Glock, save a little more and get some amount of training as opposed to none?

RichieV
January 21, 2009, 09:52 PM
I understand what you guys are saying, but the point wasn't actually about the Glock or the HiPoint, it was more about the value of training.

So many people come here and ask for a first gun recommendation, or ask what caliber is better, or which gun is better.

And these questions are asked, it seems, in trying to determine what is the be-all, end-all gun for the ages. Obviously it would be the Schlock 1912 (it's one higher than 1911, you see?) which fits conveniently in your pocket, in a caliber that has the terminal ballistics of a howitzer (with no overpenetration, mind you), the controllibility of an airsoft, holds 500 rounds, and goes for the low low price of $1.25.

Of course such a gun does not exist. But how many of us have made a recommendation to a newbie without consideration of their ability to effectively use the weapon? Are you going to train them, and if so, do you have the capability to teach that person? Will that person take you seriously if you do try to teach them? Do you have the training skills to bring him to the level he wants to be?

For myself, I know that *perhaps* I can teach certain people. Others, like my sister, even though she's intelligent and mature, will not be able to learn from me just because of our personalities and our interpersonal dynamic. In any case, I feel that a defensive gun course by people who know how to teach is the way to go as opposed to private lessons from me.

So, I guess I'm saying that before all else, if you're looking to own a gun, get training! If you can afford it, get the gun you want to go along with the training. If you can't afford the gun you want, get the gun you don't want, but fits the same bill. If you can't afford that, just get the training. It will help you pick which gun you really want anyway. And if you're a loved one and you're trustworthy and you need a gun immediately, you can use one of mine until you can afford your own. After you're trained, of course!

--Richard

wyocarp
January 21, 2009, 10:12 PM
I first have to realize that many people didn't possibly grow up shooting. If they are in that category, and possibly haven't had any or much exposure to firearms, then I think that some training should come either before the purchase or at least coincide with the purchase.

As for quality. There is no substitute!

AllAmerican
January 21, 2009, 10:25 PM
Have em buy the Glock and then hope they find it to be a brick and sell it to you cheap.

Or have em get the Hi Point and sell it cheap because it is a brick.

Had a C9 and it was fine but I got rid of it. Not a Glock fan....

gmalfavon1
January 21, 2009, 11:26 PM
haha a Glock with no training that hi points gunna jam up when u need it most no matter how much training u got u ain't gonna get to put your skills to test

bluetopper
January 21, 2009, 11:54 PM
Both plastic/polymers. Both ugly as a shoebox full of *********s.

Hi Point has the best warranty in the gun business. Tough decision.:D

Big Bill
January 21, 2009, 11:58 PM
Glock or HiPoint?This isn't a REAL question - is it?

ljnowell
January 21, 2009, 11:59 PM
I think that if the person is capable of learning the 4 rules, they should be fine with a glock. If they arent capable of learning them, they need a whistle and a cell phone.

Comparing a glock to a hi point is like comparing a corvette to a chevette(I know, crazy comparing a glock to a corvette).

TCB in TN
January 22, 2009, 12:03 AM
Get a good used Charter Arms/Taurus etc 38spcl for $250ish, and learn to shoot it. While I am a big fan of good semi autos (not Glocks they are just to ugly :p ) I think the typical newbee is better served by the simple to operate wheelgun. THEN spend time and money on training and ammo. Overall I think knowing your gun and training are more important than the tool, I would say there is a minimum level of reliability in the tool that I want if my life is to depend upon it. In my experience, the price for that is less in a revolver than in a semi-auto.

hso
January 22, 2009, 12:05 AM
For someone with no experience with handguns the first step is to find what they point naturally. I may be a Glock or CZ75 or 1911, but if they don't point it naturally they've got to overcome that obstacle to learn to shoot it adequately. Once you know that you can pick an inexpensive version of what they point. If you point a 1911 save the bucks and buy a Rock Island and use the rest on training. If you point a CZ75 save the money and purchase a used Witness. If you point a BHP get the FEG and the training. It's not an either or world.

HB
January 22, 2009, 12:07 AM
Smith and Wesson Model 10 and a class... M-10's are excellent guns and can be had used at $200

Onmilo
January 22, 2009, 12:20 AM
Friends don't let friends compare Hi-Points and Glocks.

They move the discussion to comparing Glocks to Springfield XDs and Sig Sauers and 1911 pistols.

They never mention the Hi-Point pistols again in polite society,,,,,:D

Doug S
January 22, 2009, 12:37 AM
I've been surfing these forums for a long time, and I have read many threads in which Hi-Point, Bersa, Kel-Tec, Taurus are discussed as reliable handguns at a good price point. When I first decided I needed a handgun for self defense, I went for the brands named above because I thought I'd get a reliable gun, at a price below something like a Glock. I can think of at least 15 guns that I purchased from 3 of the brands mentioned above, and all but a couple of revolvers had some sort of reliability issue. I gave up on them. I realize from reading the forums that many seem to have had good experience with the brands mentioned above, but I haven't. As a result, I can't recommend any of them. Some weren't bad, but none were particularly good. Quite a few (usually Taurus and Kel-Tec) were downright awful. After my experiences, I wouldn't trust any of the brands mentioned above to have anything remotely resembling long term reliablility. Oh, I forgot to mention. The only brand that I didn't have a problem with out of those mentioned above was a Hi-Point 9mm carbine, so I can't actually say anything bad about my experience with them. Still, the quality of construction, particularly the magazines did not allow me to feel comfortable trusting the gun for anything other than target practice.

I've since settled on a couple of Glock 26', and a pre-lock 642 as my CCW guns.

M&PVolk
January 22, 2009, 12:39 AM
I have a friend who recently purchased a Hi-Point and loves it. While there is no doubt that there are major quality differences between Glock and Hi-Point, there are some legit reasons to own a lower dollar gun. You can take them anywhere without worrying about what happens to them, feed them cheap ammo, and shoot the snot out of them knowing that when they wear out it's no big deal to replace them. Not that you can't do those things with a Glock, but for some folks the price difference really changes how they utilize a gun.

wyocarp
January 22, 2009, 04:02 AM
What amount are we really talking about here? There aren't thousands of dollars between these two. Most would be able to save the extra hundred dollars in a few months if they really wanted to. If they can't do that, they won't be able to shoot the thing anyway so it doesn't matter. I buy a lot of guns, but I spend more on ammo than I do on guns.

For a lot of people they could save enough to buy the glock in a month or two by cutting out smoking and/or drinking.

23Glock
January 22, 2009, 09:22 AM
Lots of good comments here!
My $0.02: Always *invest* in a quality weapon, AND quality training. This could potentially mean your life, and you don't want to skimp on either. Someone else said "training is a must" - I couldn't agree more. IMO, training could possibly be more important than the weapon.
Google and/or eBay "Front Sight certificate", you can usually find one for a 4 day defensive handgun course at Front Sight for like $150. You could also try their new promotion, this "millionaire patriot" thingie where they give you a Springfield XD and a 4 day defensive handgun course for $1199:
https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp
(But I think you could probably get the course and the gun for less than $1199 if you worked at it)
Front Sight treats you like a drug addict: They make it very easy and cheap for you to go to your first course there, then you have to pay full price thereafter, unless you buy a membership. I would take advantage of the "cheap first class" promotions they have to get some decent training. Classes at GunSite, ThunderRanch are always full price, but always worth it. I look at Front Sight as "High School" and the others as "College". Start at Front Sight, graduate to the others.
As far as the weapon, Glock or Springfield. Period. You want a quality, reliable, cost-effective weapon that you can trust your life to.
If you have absolutely rigid budget guidelines, spend the money on the training first, and if the budget allows, get a Glock/Springfield. If it doesn't, get the Hi-Point, and pay special attention in your training about clearing malfunctions and going for your blade in case the hi-point explodes... :neener: j/k

tostada
January 22, 2009, 12:09 PM
99% of people who say bad things about Hi-Points (besides them being big and ugly) have never owned one and probably never even shot one.


"FWIW, I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a gun for self defense. What's your life or your family's worth? Buy a good reliable gun, and then shoot the crap out of it. Having the confidence to know that your gun is going to shoot whenever you pull the trigger is priceless. Just my $.02"


That's an absurd thing to say. How about this? I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a car to drive to work. You need good reliable transportation. Buy a Lexus with a warranty!

Some people are broke.

GoodKat
January 22, 2009, 12:13 PM
That's an absurd thing to say. How about this? I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a car to drive to work. You need good reliable transportation. Buy a Lexus with a warranty!
Hey, we're talking about a man's safety here!
...Buy an Audi!

mgkdrgn
January 22, 2009, 12:17 PM
IMHO .... the $ they would save on ONE handgun purchase, Glock -vs- Hi-point wouldn't pay for enough "training" to make any difference. We're talking what, $300 - $400 tops?

Training -is- vital ... but you aren't going to get it for that kind of coin.

RichieV
January 22, 2009, 12:17 PM
Well perhaps Glock vs. HiPoint wasn't the greatest example...I admit I was trying to be a bit provocative hehe.

Let's say a newbie says "Hey, I need a gun for concealed carry. I just got a small bonus and so I'm looking to get my first gun ever woohoo! I've got $1500 to blow and from what I've heard, 1911s are great guns so I've been researching and it looks like I can get a Les Baer for around that price. What do you guys think?"

Now, arguments concerning the 1911 platform aside, most would consider a Les Baer to be a worthy purchase. But when you consider that it would be his first gun ever and he would be using it for a CCW, wouldn't it be a good idea to determine his level of training first, and if found wanting, recommend that he instead spend half the money on a "lesser" 1911 such as a Springfield or Kimber and the rest on a decent training course? That "lesser" 1911 will still be combat-worthy and fulfill the same role of a Les Baer, at least in the ways that matter for a CCW. And he will be much better prepared to use it if needed than if he had just gotten the more expensive "higher quality" pistol.

Kinda like saying that if I owned a Ferrari (I wish), without proper training, I can say I know how to drive it, but I won't know how to race it. Danica Patrick in a Corvette outraces me in a Ferrari every time.

Just because you know how to shoot with a gun, doesn't mean you know how to fight with a gun. Learn to fight if you're going to carry!

--Richard

Funderb
January 22, 2009, 12:22 PM
well, i vote glock with training.

it is My Opinion, but hi points make me die a little, they are so ugly.
cheap,
ugly,
but aesthetics never saved anyone.

I still recommend the glock, it is much higher quality.
And I have shot both.

wyocarp
January 22, 2009, 12:48 PM
99% of people who say bad things about Hi-Points (besides them being big and ugly) have never owned one and probably never even shot one.

A true statement for me. One that will probably not change in the near future.

CoRoMo
January 22, 2009, 12:56 PM
I own a Hi-Point, but if a guy has enough to afford a Glock ($500ish?) then he can buy a lot of things and still afford training ($250ish?).

I'd definitely recommend a Hi Point to anyone who can't afford more than a $100 gun, but with the budget you provided, I wouldn't recommend a Hi Point, and I wouldn't recommend the Glock either. Something in between would be best.

Landor
January 22, 2009, 03:27 PM
I have never owned a hi-point pistol and have heard good things about them but there is no comparison to a Glock. If you have an option of either go with the Glock. If you have money issues go with the hi-point because a gun is better then no gun. You can never go wrong with a Glock.

Funderb
January 22, 2009, 06:10 PM
just save a couple extra hundred to get the glock, they are not all 500 dollars. Heck, I'm in college and can do that much over a year.

Duke of Doubt
January 22, 2009, 06:18 PM
I'm with HB -- the newby should get a used Model 10 for about $200, a carry holster, a big pile of .38 Special, and practice, practice, practice. Most good training costs a lot more than a couple hundred dollars. He'd be better off reading books and articles and practicing at the range or in the field.

ljnowell
January 22, 2009, 07:01 PM
You can pick up a used glock for anywhere from 350-400 from buds or cdnn. You dont necesarily need new.

pith43
January 22, 2009, 07:23 PM
That's an absurd thing to say. How about this? I would never let money be a factor in deciding on a car to drive to work. You need good reliable transportation. Buy a Lexus with a warranty!

Some people are broke, ass.

How articulate.

Your logic baffles me. You buy a crap car, and you break down on the way to work...you get the chance to do it over and over again.
You buy a crap gun, and pull it in self defense... you may lose your life.

Don't take everything so personal. I stated it was just my opinion. I absolutely give you the permision to buy any gun you want.;)

pith43
January 22, 2009, 07:29 PM
double

saturno_v
January 22, 2009, 07:29 PM
For a beginner, frankly neither of them

No external hammer, no external safety for the Glock, SA only

The Hi-Point are very heavy, big and unwieldy...they are ok in a pinch as nightstand gun or car glovebox gun or to have fun at the range

The Glocks are much better designed and finished pistols of course.

I'd tell them to buy a USED Glock or something like it AND get some basic training. I saw a fellow shooting a Hi Point have it blow up in his hand the other day.


I'm Suuuuuuuuuuuuure you saw that...and I bet the flying slide did hit your friend in the forehead right?? (that is a classic....)
I'm always amazed at the amount of BS or, in the best case scenario, third and fourth hand "facts" that people posts on forum trying to make a point (no pun intended in this case....)

According to some posters during the years, Hi-Point pistols blow up left and right everywhere...what load of crap....

They are ugly as sin (Glock are equally unattractive), almost impossible to carry concealed and their design lacks sophistication (basicaly they are like the equivalent of the small 25 ACP blowback pistols of many decades ago on steroids), I would never ever buy one, unless in a desperate situation, but they are darn reliable and they put the bullets where you aim your sights.
And they have one of the best warranties in the industry.

For the OP....if you look for an inexpensive very good quality pistol ideal for beginners with all the goodies (safety, decocker, external hammer, DA/SA, etc..) you should look at Bersa.

If money is a stringent factor, the Bersa Thunder 380 is less than 100 dollars more than a Hi-Point but is in a totally different class.

ChronoCube
January 22, 2009, 07:39 PM
IMHO .... the $ they would save on ONE handgun purchase, Glock -vs- Hi-point wouldn't pay for enough "training" to make any difference. We're talking what, $300 - $400 tops?

Have you not heard of Suarez International (http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=13)?

sohcgt2
January 22, 2009, 10:04 PM
Recently I''ve seen quite a few 1st gen Glocks used at dealers. These can be had for slightly more than the Highpoint and still allow for some training, perhaps a happy medium. I've never heard of a Highpoint Kaboom but I've experienced missfeeds, stovepipes, and a variety of failure to fire issues with my Highpoint. On the other hand I have never had a failure with either of my Glock pistols and am only aware of 1 failure (happened to a friend) and it was caused by a double powder reload.

Gun Slinger
January 22, 2009, 10:27 PM
I understand what you guys are saying, but the point wasn't actually about the Glock or the HiPoint, it was more about the value of training.


Then why not ask: What value is there in training?

seale
January 22, 2009, 10:45 PM
The premise of the question is fatally flawed because it presupposes that "training" (the darling word of the anti gunners) means anything. "Training" can mean a LOT of different things. "Training" is meaningless if the person doesn't practice. "Training" can also be done alone.

The answer is to buy BOTH. Carry the Glock holstered when walking downtown after a rap concert and carry the Hi Point in the glove box ;)

SCBradley
January 23, 2009, 04:16 AM
The infamous $200 Model 10 has already shown up twice.

ZO6Vettever
January 23, 2009, 08:52 AM
From all I've read HiPoints are reliable and accurate. Ugly, who cares, concealed, DUH??? The problem I see with them is they are so darn heavy, like pull your pants down heavy. Take a look at the S&W Sigma's. They are the "Made in USA" Glock clone. To all the nahsayers, Glock said that, and said it in court I might add, and won the lawsuit.

bikerdoc
January 23, 2009, 08:58 AM
The most interesting and creative vs thread we have had in a long time

HD Rider
January 23, 2009, 09:21 AM
You want a gun that goes bang everytime, Get her a wheel gun and still have money for training.

Davionmaximus
January 23, 2009, 09:32 AM
Spend the money once. Get a Glock. It will last a lifetime. Mags are affordable and easily found. Then spend some time at the range or hire a private instructor.

CoRoMo
January 23, 2009, 11:17 AM
I've found plenty quality training courses for less than $300.

NRA First Steps Pistol (4 hours) ~ $100
NRA Basic Pistol (10 hours) ~ $150
NRA Personal Protection IN The Home (8 hour) ~ $200
Defensive Handgun ~$250

Given a budget of $500-$550, a beginner could buy a $200 gun and afford two of the courses (14-18 hours total) I listed above.
Heck, NRA Instructor courses are only around $300.

ndh87
January 23, 2009, 11:40 AM
Let your friend buy the Glock then go to the range together and teach them what you learned from taking your training class. Then you friend has a nice gun a a bit of training.

EDIT: A few people have mentioned revolvers, I started on a ruger speed 6. The GP100s would be in your price range too.

tostada
January 23, 2009, 11:41 AM
I just think it's funny to see people praising the Glock's aesthetics.



pith43:
Your logic baffles me. You buy a crap car, and you break down on the way to work...you get the chance to do it over and over again.
You buy a crap gun, and pull it in self defense... you may lose your life.

I don't buy the hypothetical situation about losing your life because you owned a Hi-Point. Find me a case where someone actually died because their Hi-Point didn't work. They are very reliable guns, and most people buy them because it's that or nothing (or a much more dubious firearm).

While we're speaking hypothetically:

You buy a crap car, you break down, you don't make it to work, you lose your job, your wife leaves you and takes the kids, you jump off a bridge, you have a change of heart and decide to go back to school, but a shark eats you. You spend your golden years as algae-covered shark poop on the bottom of the San Fransisco Bay.

Crap car = eaten by shark!

RichieV
January 23, 2009, 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by RichieV:
I understand what you guys are saying, but the point wasn't actually about the Glock or the HiPoint, it was more about the value of training.


Then why not ask: What value is there in training?



I guess it didn't occur to me at the time :D

But your question had me thinking about what I asked in the original post. In terms of a Glock vs. a HiPoint, what *is* the value of training? Is it more valuable than the advantages that a Glock has over a HiPoint?

First off, despite the prejudices, a HiPoint, from many reports here and elsewhere, is *not* a junk weapon. It seems to be reliable and accurate and capable. However, I think most can agree that in a side-by-side comparison, a Glock is a better weapon than a HiPoint in many ways:

Glock's Advantages Over HiPoint

weight
concealability
ergonomics
availability of after-market parts
capacity of rounds


HiPoint's Advantages Over Glock

price
warranty


Of course there are a few arguable qualities where personal preference comes into play such as which gun is better looking, manual safety or not, made in the USA or not, etc. Also, I don't know which one wins out in the question of durability...I think Glock but I really don't know.

Still, side-by-side, it's a no brainer...Glock beats HiPoint.

But, without the benefit of training, many of those advantages are worthless. Does concealability matter if your idea of concealment is Mexican carry? Do ergonomics matter if your idea of a two handed grip is cup and saucering? Does capacity matter if you don't know how to hit your target? Does any of that matter if you don't know how to retain your weapon? Or shoot yourself because you don't know how to present your weapon safely?

A decent training course should address all that. So if you are new gun user and your means are limited, and if the price advantage of a HiPoint allows you to take a quality training course whereas if you purchase a Glock you can *not* take a training course, I say take the lesser gun alongside the training.

--Richard

mgkdrgn
January 23, 2009, 12:19 PM
Have you not heard of Suarez International (http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=13)?

Ya, but unless the OP happens to live across the street from one of the class sites ...he still has to get there, stay there, eat there, get back, take the time off from work ... yadda yadda yadda. All of which will will end up costing as much, if not more, than the class itself, and hence blow the "budget" presented in the OP.

ljnowell
January 23, 2009, 01:43 PM
hi-points warranty isnt much better than glocks. Glock verygood about fixing guns for no cost, unless you boneheaded something. Also, glock tunes up old guns for free all the time too. Warranty would never steer me away from glock.

CoRoMo
January 23, 2009, 01:49 PM
What kind of reception will your Hi Point get you when you show up at Black Water with it?:confused:
Don't cry, it happens.:scrutiny:

mbt2001
January 23, 2009, 01:56 PM
Glock or HiPoint?

I can't believe that there is actually some kind of comparison being made here... Glock. Hands down.

sendarope
January 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
Get the Glock. I recommend the Glock 23 compact or the Glock 27 Subcompact. I love both of mine. Accurate. Simple. Proven and tested.

Also get some training. I know it was either/or but you can't skip training. There are other threads on this stuff, but training will help get their mind right and ready to pull the trigger if the need should arise. If someone isn't prepared to pull the trigger before they put the gun in the holster they might not pull the trigger if they pull their gun.

G23: 480 New
G27: 400 Used ( Like new )

melikesguns
January 23, 2009, 02:01 PM
Who cares that a Glock is ugly. I can take mine and shoot "around" your pimped out 1911 all day long!! I have never seen a burglary where the burglar stops and says, "dam that gun is ugly as hell." It goes bang everytime, and isn't that what counts??

RacingJake
January 23, 2009, 03:18 PM
I just got back from the range again :barf: after another couple hundred rounds through my Hi Point C9. I'm over 3,000 rounds in less than 60 days, no problems, no jams and no cleaning either :neener:

I'm still waiting for something to happen ? cause right now she still puts all 8 rounds in a 2 inch square at 7 yards

I like to buy a Glock 19 this summer before all firearms are banned in the US along with reloading and powders that only last 1 year or a 50 round box a month club is started.

wrxguyusa
January 23, 2009, 03:22 PM
I've found plenty quality training courses for less than $300.

NRA First Steps Pistol (4 hours) ~ $100
NRA Basic Pistol (10 hours) ~ $150
NRA Personal Protection IN The Home (8 hour) ~ $200
Defensive Handgun ~$250

Given a budget of $500-$550, a beginner could buy a $200 gun and afford two of the courses (14-18 hours total) I listed above.
Heck, NRA Instructor courses are only around $300.

These are classroom based training courses. Even the NRA instructor that taught basic pistol for CCW requirements told me they are not worth taking and he refuses to teach them even though he is certified in all of those.

From someone who didn't buy a glock first and has a $300 safe weight, I recommend the Glock and train solo first, find a friend, or join a local pistol club for help. You need to get basic handling skills before jumping into a tactical course.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 23, 2009, 03:26 PM
It's a good question. The glock is *slightly* better for a LOT more - tough call. :p Why bother with either the junky gun or the poor value - get something else instead. Couldn't be more pleased with my Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS Tactical.

ljnowell
January 23, 2009, 04:27 PM
It's a good question. The glock is *slightly* better for a LOT more - tough call. Why bother with either the junky gun or the poor value - get something else instead. Couldn't be more pleased with my Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS Tactical.


I dont know exactly what to say about that. Ihope it was a joke. Dont buy junk, instead get a taurus? Glocks are only slightly better, for a lot more money? Hmmm. Somebody is out of touch.

rogertc1
January 23, 2009, 07:30 PM
Glock or HiPoint?
A kind of question a **** would ask.. $150 new or $550. new LOL
Both guns work well but do not compare.

mgkdrgn
January 23, 2009, 07:55 PM
Who cares that a Glock is ugly. I can take mine and shoot "around" your pimped out 1911 all day long!! I have never seen a burglary where the burglar stops and says, "dam that gun is ugly as hell." It goes bang everytime, and isn't that what counts??

How does that saying go ... "Your custom tricked out 1911 you show to your friends .... it's your enemies that get to see your Glock" :evil:

melikesguns
January 23, 2009, 08:06 PM
Amen! nuff said! Seriously though, I have owned so many guns, I can't even remember them all. Of all the trading, selling, buying. I have never sold my Glock. I owned a Kimber, worked great,,,,,at times. The Glock and my Smith 638 are the only two that I would bet my life on. And yes, I have owned Colt's, Springfield's, HI-POINT'S, and the rest in one form or another.

If you want to see the ugliest gun ever made, just Google Hi-Point w/ compensator

sohcgt2
January 24, 2009, 08:33 PM
posted by richie v
I guess it didn't occur to me at the time

But your question had me thinking about what I asked in the original post. In terms of a Glock vs. a HiPoint, what *is* the value of training? Is it more valuable than the advantages that a Glock has over a HiPoint?

First off, despite the prejudices, a HiPoint, from many reports here and elsewhere, is *not* a junk weapon. It seems to be reliable and accurate and capable. However, I think most can agree that in a side-by-side comparison, a Glock is a better weapon than a HiPoint in many ways:

There is no substitute for training and if auto pistol training is the goal there can be no better pistol than the High Point. As an owner of both I can attest to the training that results from a trip to the range with a High Point firearm. I have never cycled a full 10 round magazine without some type of failure. Because of this high quality piece of equipment I have the strong belief that if my Glock ever fails (never has) my training with the High Point will prevail and the Glock will be returned to service in short order. I still own the High Point because I'm aware it is a novellty firearm and is only barely functional.

Limited training with something that works as you percieve it should is far far better than extensive training with something less effective than a two shot derringer (at least the derringer was designed to breach and hand load every 2 shots). Get the training first then get the most reliable equipment affordable (I'm guessing used Rossi revolver).

Lonestar.45
January 24, 2009, 08:41 PM
Glock.

"Training" is so highly overrated in here at times. One does not need to go to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch to plug a thug coming through your window. Grannies and folks in wheelchairs to it all the time.

I'm not saying training is useless, quite the contrary. But if a newbie just spent some quality range time with the Glock, learned how to take care of it, and had some situational awareness and common sense, I feel that is all 99% of the people need if they are defending themselves in their home.

I vote for the Glock, and then down the road, get some training if they feel like they would benefit or need it.

sltintexas
January 24, 2009, 09:31 PM
a buddy of mine told me he wanted a gun. He had been wanting one for a while. He mentioned he wanted a glock but couldn't afford one. I told him about my hi points and how reliable and cheap they were. We went to a gun show the next weekend and he bought a C9.

So in his case a Hi Point was better cuz he wasn't getting a glock. I took him to the range and showed him and his son the basics.

ljnowell
January 24, 2009, 10:00 PM
So in his case a Hi Point was better cuz he wasn't getting a glock. I took him to the range and showed him and his son the basics.
I wouldnt say it was better. I would say that if its all he can afford he is better off with it than nothing.

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