now its cops against knives


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Mannlicher
September 28, 2003, 08:10 PM
I was watching on History Channel, about some old murders in New Hampshire. The murder weapon was a SOG Seal knife. One of the cops said on TV "it is clear to me, that the only reason for a knife like this is to cause harm to people."

Isnt that the same thing they say about guns? Whats next? Baseball bats? fingernail clippers? Cops just don't think "civilians" should be allowed to own much of anything.

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Kharn
September 28, 2003, 08:18 PM
I heard the same quote. What a dufus...

Kharn

brownie0486
September 28, 2003, 08:19 PM
One officers opinion does not make it automatically "cops" opinions in general.

That was the inference right? That cops all across the country don't like people having much of anything anymore.

It was one mans opinion and no more.

Certainly not the title of the thread.

Brownie

Quartus
September 28, 2003, 08:38 PM
Alas, the LEADERSHIP of most urban areas is more and more against any kind of weapon being allowed to the serfs. That's not universally true, but it IS the direction of the trend.

Check **********'s knife laws - you can get in more trouble over a knife than a gun in many places. Had to ban those evil saw-toothed blades that the 'bangers like, you know. :barf: And it's the LEO leadership that has pushed for such laws.

dance varmint
September 28, 2003, 08:45 PM
I saw the same thing on Dateline NBC; it was about the teenage boys from Vermont who murdered a married couple of Dartmouth professors. Besides villifying a 7-inch knife, the police technique as I recall was to demand all the purchase records of that knife from a NH dealer and then look at the locations for leads. The perps were found to live within about 30 miles, which apparently is REMARKABLY close to the crime scene for such a WICKED EVIL knife.

Betty
September 28, 2003, 09:12 PM
:rolleyes:

I keep a BK&T Combat Utility 7 knife (actually, it looks like a small machete :D ) by the bed. It's got a scaaaaary black blade. Sure, it's meant to "cause harm to people" but only in self-defense. So far it's only caused harm to a cardboard box.

If that cop thinks my knife is scary, he hasn't seen mom's cast iron skillet.
Somebody breaks in here, I'm going to beat his head in!

Mark Tyson
September 28, 2003, 09:15 PM
This is more blaming of inanimate objects for the evil deeds of people. Ridiculous. Evil men will find a way to commit their crimes no matter what laws we pass. I don't think most police think the way that individual does, though.

El Tejon
September 28, 2003, 09:18 PM
No, really, Officer? I thought weapons were for tickling?:D

Of course weapons are for killing! Where are they getting cops from these days.:rolleyes:

Nightcrawler
September 28, 2003, 09:25 PM
You know, Runt, my mom shows me an old cast-iron skillet from time to time. Seems that many years ago, HER mother's second husband was leaving her, and was going to take her son (my mom's baby brother) with him.

Well, my grandmother wouldn't have any of that, and cracked the guy over the head with this cast iron skillet.

So hard it BROKE. Not just the skinny part of the handle; the pan part itself broke off, with the handle. About 1/5th of the pan, plus the handle, broke off, on this guys head.

Then, my grandmother proceeds to jump on the bleeding guy (who's been laid out, obviously) and proceeds to beat the crap out of him. My mother and her sister had to pull the old lady off, to stop her from killing the guy.

The moral of the story is that it's unwise to try to steal a child away from a mother.

Consequently, I fear frying pans a lot more than I do big knives.

4v50 Gary
September 28, 2003, 09:37 PM
Dufus statement by a dufus cop. Every group has its dufus and LE has found theirs. :)

winstonsmith
September 28, 2003, 10:01 PM
Well I met the polar opposite of that cop. He noticed my folder clipped to my pocket and said "What's that in your pocket son?"

Wary, I said, "A legal pocketknife, officer."

Him: "How long is it?"

Me: "About 3 1/4 inches, sir."

Him: "Hmm... aren't you a little undergunned for this area?"

Me: "Well, if you only count the ones you can see sir."

Him: "Ahh... well don't get into any trouble."

Me: "Of course not, officer."

And this is in the liberal capital of the world. I like every cop I've met. As individuals they are just fine, but of course they have their share of jackasses just like everyone else. So one quote by one cop doesn't mean beans.

Chipperman
September 28, 2003, 10:20 PM
Me: "Well, if you only count the ones you can see sir."

Nice one ! :D

winstonsmith
September 28, 2003, 10:54 PM
I had quite a bit of steel on me that night, I had just collected a few knives that my friends had borrowed. Had to be something like 20 inches of blade length.

So if only 3 1/4th of those 20 inches got spotted, I think I did an all right job...

critter
September 28, 2003, 11:15 PM
Surprisingly, the Dateline NBC piece made a great point. The same two pathetic killers had intended to do the same thing about 6 months previously-had even cased a place and dug two graves for their intended targets. The intended target, however, refused entrance into his home to the little vermin and when they insisted, he showed him his glock! Perp left and homeowner then discovered that the phone line had been cut! No glock and he and his son would have been the vic's!

Quartus
September 29, 2003, 02:45 AM
So far it's only caused harm to a cardboard box.


Oh, NOT good, Runt. Cardboard is a great way to dull a knife! About as bad as it gets, short of trying to cut concrete. You HAVE re-sharpened it, now, haven't you.

I don't want to have to report you to the Society for the Prevention of Knife Abuse.

;)

BluesBear
September 29, 2003, 04:44 AM
Every cop I know carries a knife capable of cutting through a seat belt.

I'd guess about 97¾% of the human body is easier to cut than a seatbelt.

Bad guys usually don't even wear seat belts (at least on TV) but many of them carry knives.

That's why I always wear my seatbelt and usually carry a .45.
:D

It's what works for me. Feel free to do what works for you.

Matt G
September 29, 2003, 05:37 AM
I was taking my lunch break at a church taco dinner social and silent auction fund raiser the other night. A straight-backed, square-shouldered retired gent I know slit some stranded packing tape with a sharp finger of a stainless lockblade. The older ladies around never had seen him snick it open, and didn't realize why the package to be placed on the display table just slid open like magic.

"That's a handy and sharp little blade you've got there," I mentioned.

"Yeah, but it won't hold the edge that my little 'fingernail' knife in my other pocket will. And it won't do the bigger jobs like my 'seat belt' knife here will do," he said as a SNICK occurred in his right hand alongside his leg. I'd barely noticed that he had reached that hand past the small of his back for the Spyderco. "I don't use this 'n for everyday stuff, 'cause it's harder to sharpen." It had a fully serrated edge. Like palming a tip, he folded it one-handed, and tucked it away with enough discretion that a room packed with more than 50 or more folks never noticed it going back into its hiding spot on his waistband.

I smiled and remarked that such a knife might make a swell dissuader of nastier things than seatbelts.

He smiled back cheerfully and allowed that, while it could, he carried better tools for that sort of thing.

Mindful of the old ladies, we did not carry the Show & Tell that far. :)

c_yeager
September 29, 2003, 06:04 AM
I was recently looking into my state's (and others) knife laws. MAN there are some majorly draconian laws on the books concerning knives. Most of them seem to be more concerned with how SCARY a knife LOOKS rather than its relative effectiveness, sound familier? Where the heck were we when we let these laws get passed? These seem like the model for modern firearms laws. It seems like we started down the slippery slope a long time ago and i didnt even notice.

Jack19
September 29, 2003, 10:12 AM
Another example of the military mentality of lots of cops today. They forget they ARE civilians.

brownie0486
September 29, 2003, 10:41 AM
Jack19 : " THEY forget they ARE civilians. "

Thats a pretty big brush you are using there sir and not quite accurate.

Brownie

dance varmint
September 29, 2003, 11:55 AM
He said "lots of cops" rather than most or all cops; once and for all, get off your high horse, bro.

buzz_knox
September 29, 2003, 12:09 PM
Thats a pretty big brush you are using there sir and not quite accurate.

Unless I'm horribly mistaken (and I don't think so), if you're not military, you are a civilian. Police are granted certain authority by the state, but they remain civilians.

The effort to drive a wedge between civilians with law enforcement authority and civilians without said authority, along with the efforts to militarize police, goes a long way to explaining why many do not trust LE agencies.

dance varmint
September 29, 2003, 12:23 PM
Back on the topic of knives, somehow I feel subliminally compelled to order a Police, Military, and Civilian from my Spyderco dealer.

Ol' Badger
September 29, 2003, 12:29 PM
Who cares what one LEO up north thinks. He is also allowed an opinon,even thou its lame.

Jack19
September 29, 2003, 02:24 PM
Brownie, well, having spent a significant amount of time in a police uniform, I seem to recall that we were not members of the military and the job assignment was civilian policing. But this was before the era of Federal grants to police agencies, police departments sending officers to train with the military, or military advisors appearing at significant local policing events. :scrutiny:

If you have a legal reference that shows that civilian police agencies have been militarized, I'll stand corrected.

But the topic here is really knives....

benewton
September 29, 2003, 02:51 PM
Mannlicher:

I'd come up from the male portion of the residence, turned the tube on, and, since I live in the area, was vastly interested in the show.

Called in the boss, made nasty comments about liberal profs letting anybody in for any reason (rural without a dog????), given that they'd be unarmed...

Then heard the knife quote.

Said a "few" rude things to the tube.
Then said a few more...

Wife went to bed to read.

Smart woman.

More comments followed.


'course we've a couple of dogs, a revolver on her side and a pistol on mine, and with long arms and neighbors available, given time, we tend not to worry all that much, if at all.

But I'm truely sick of the police officials spewing forth with the " only good for killing" line.


More "rude" comments spring forth at the (last measured) rate of 35 WPM, so it's time to go exercise the CDS: winter time means revolver for me too, and I need to do my change over workup.

12 Oz cans at 25 yards with a 2" fired DA.

More "rude" words will follow...

BigG
September 29, 2003, 03:02 PM
This is going back into the 50s, but I remember my dad telling me you would get in as much trouble for carrying a jackknife with a 3" blade in the City of Detroit as a gun. The logical implication was, why not carry a pistol if they're going to get upset anyway?:eek:

brownie0486
September 29, 2003, 03:05 PM
"They forget they are civilians"

Some forget, others do not. I just don't think "they" should have been used. "They" connotates the majority to some here on the forums. More that some feel that way, which is of course true.

Then again, they are entitled to an opinion, whether popular or not, as is everyone else. I don't expect everyone to agree with my thoght process, and as you know from being in uniform, cops are opinionated, sometimes more so than others.

What we see here too often are civilains who do not wear the blue having at the boys and girls who do wear the uniform and generalizing when referring to a few as the majority.

No I don't think we have been militarized, but others here certainly make that claim often enough, and spout it forth whenever they get the chance.

Brownie

benewton
September 29, 2003, 03:57 PM
Brownie:

Most cops approach "civilians" with a "you will comply, or else" attitude, and that speaks to me of bully. Less so in my climes than others, but there you have it.
They also tend to do the "us vrs them" thingy, and, sorry about the generalization, but am I supposed to know all of you? And don't you do the same to us in your JBT approach to traffic stops?

All of which tends to alienate the vast numbers of "thems" from the "us" types

It isn't all that hard to understand why the police are losing, or have lost, their public support, looked at from the citizen's side, which the "us" types seeming are unable to do.


This is the wrong thread for this discussion.

And so I close

Johnny Guest
September 29, 2003, 04:03 PM
This topic has clearly run its course.

Request that a General Discussion moderator Please close this thread.

Johnny Guest
Career Civilian Peace Officer

sw442642
September 29, 2003, 05:12 PM
The officer should see the sets of legitimate cooking knives in the stores. Some of the high end chef's knives would dwarf a Sog. Man is an idiot.

He should watch Surviving Edged Weapons where an officer gets it in the noggin with a cleaver. Should we all eat pudding and applesauce now?
:banghead:

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