"A New Day Dawning for Gun Violence Prevention"


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bumm
January 22, 2009, 03:46 PM
http://opposingviews.com/articles/op...nce-prevention

The usual Brady Bunch drivel. I tried posting the article, but it was too long. As most of us already know, we're in for a fight...
Marty

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damien
January 22, 2009, 03:51 PM
http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/opinion-new-day-dawning-for-gun-violence-prevention

deaconkharma
January 22, 2009, 03:55 PM
From the article The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.
Ok well how about a 22 rifle? is that ok? The problem is you need to keep criminals off the streets and that in itself keeps that AK out of their hand. DUMMY!
I don't have enough nasty words to throw at these doofuses( with their newly elected head lemming BO) I may have to make some up.:banghead::cuss:

Deanimator
January 22, 2009, 03:58 PM
The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.
Does that mean it's ok for criminals in rural Sandusky county to have AK-47s?

bumm
January 22, 2009, 04:12 PM
I want to reply to this, (the site posted one of my rebuttals to one of Helmke's rants on a different article,) but I don't even know where to start. Sometimes the Brady Bunch truly outdoes itself.
Marty

lanternlad1
January 22, 2009, 05:45 PM
I read through this article, and what I got from it was:

"Ha ha! Barack is President now! We win! Kiss your guns goodbye!"

Not so fast Mr. Helmke. I don't think you've been reading the papers. Haven't you noticed that gun purchases have gone through the roof since B.O. was elected? Why, pray tell, do you think that is? I'll tell you.

Because no one trusts B.O. to keep his hands off the guns. Not even his own supporters. I've met MANY Democrats who voted for B.O. at gun shows. What do you think they were doing there? Admiring the view?

No. They too were buying guns.

But Barack has noticed this, and so have the Democrats in Congress, and it has hearkened them back to the good 'ol days when the AWB was in power...AND BECAUSE OF IT, THEY WEREN'T.

He who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it. Please, Mr Helmke, do all you can to push through another AWB. If it passes (it won't) you'll never see another liberal in Congress again.

And the rest of us will breather easier.

SavageMOA
January 22, 2009, 05:51 PM
He who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it. Please, Mr Helmke, do all you can to push through another AWB. If it passes (it won't) you'll never see another liberal in Congress again.

Amen, brother.

TT
January 22, 2009, 06:04 PM
It may not be very pleasant for RKBA activists to read, but Helmke is essentially correct- the election of Obama and the success of Democratic congressional candidates is a huge blow to gun owners. Everything Helmke indicates he wants in the article was promised by Obama and echoed in the Democratic National Platform…by electing Democrats the majority of the public has confirmed that they support such legislation. For the next four years at least, our only hope is in the courts.

Colonel
January 22, 2009, 06:11 PM
Please, Mr Helmke, do all you can to push through another AWB. If it passes (it won't) you'll never see another liberal in Congress again.

Wait...ain't that what we said 14 years ago? And look at things now.

Jenrick
January 22, 2009, 06:21 PM
TT: Electing Democrats does not mean that anyone who voted for them supported their entire agenda. For instance one might have felt that getting out of Iraq or universal affordable health care . With the two parties running almost polar opposite platforms this year a lot of folks had to pick what issue was the most important and vote that.

-Jenrick

lanternlad1
January 22, 2009, 06:44 PM
"Wait...ain't that what we said 14 years ago? And look at things now."

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

AWB I got passed because it was inserted into the Clinton Crime Bill (CCB). It would not have passed on its own, even then. It was part of a deal made on the sly between Clinton and cronies to get the CCB put through. The ten year sunset was the means that made it possible to go through. (It originally had no sunset.) The ten-year limit was imposed, and it was rushed through Congress.

Then the fallout began.

In the elections that followed, the Dem majority became a GOP majority, and Newt Gingrich became Clinton's personal nightmare (before the Lewinsky thing).

B.O. has SAID many times that he "isn't out to get our guns". His WRITINGS prove otherwise. If an AWB comes across his desk, he'll sign it in a heartbeat.

But Bush would have too. No AWB was forthcoming.

H.R.1022 died in committee. The Dems technically had enough people in place to get it voted and passed. But it never made it that far. Why? Because no Dem was willing to risk his/her cushy job to see it done. How much do you want to bet that, privately, many politicians are pro-gun but to get elected have to be anti-gun. I'll bet there is more than we even suspect. Gun banning is Helmke's mission, not theirs. But Helmke and his ilk pay the election costs, so Senator <Whomever> "tries" to get their agenda pushed through.

But not if it is going to cost them their jobs.

To get in a camera's eye and spout the evils of guns is one thing. To risk losing your job for someone else's ideal is another thing entirely.

Also, don't forget, the reason there is a Democratic majority in Congress is because many first time voters wanted Barack and voted a straight-party ticket. In two years, that won't be the case.

Travis Bickle
January 22, 2009, 06:45 PM
Dream on, Helmke. The Democrats of the 103rd Congress are long gone, and the Democrats of this Congress remember well their richly-deserved electoral massacre. Your agenda is going nowhere.

ArmedBear
January 22, 2009, 06:53 PM
He who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it.

Oh crap!

Obama will most definitely sign another AWB, then.

Dravur
January 22, 2009, 06:59 PM
universal affordable health car

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.. that's rich...Words that will NEVER be used in the same sentence... Affordable,,, GASP HAHAHAHA and Universal..

Universal Skyrocketing costs due to the massive inefficiencies from a top heavy government and queues based not on need but time in queue, unaffordable health care...

There, fixed that

akodo
January 22, 2009, 07:14 PM
I really really hope Obama is too busy to get his gun agenda rolling

Sam Adams
January 22, 2009, 07:21 PM
To get in a camera's eye and spout the evils of guns is one thing. To risk losing your job for someone else's ideal is another thing entirely.

There are worse things that can happen to people than losing their jobs. I suspect that lots of politicians understand this, and the massive sales of guns and ammo are a constant and increasing reminder.

Sam Adams
January 22, 2009, 07:27 PM
Sorry, major-league problem with posting.

TT
January 22, 2009, 08:03 PM
Jenrick: Electing Democrats does not mean that anyone who voted for them supported their entire agenda. For instance one might have felt that getting out of Iraq or universal affordable health care...

Interesting point. I’ll rephrase- by voting for Democrats the majority of the electorate has confirmed that they support such legislation or that other issues are more important to them than maintaining their right to self-defense.

DocBoCook
January 22, 2009, 08:14 PM
Do the so called "experts" for the Anti Gun side, just vomit whatever the Brady Campaign people say?

All I want to do is take them to england and let them watch the news, or ask an englishman how that gun ban is affecting their criminals. He'll say "it's making their life easier, and ours horrifiying".

outerlimit
January 22, 2009, 08:17 PM
My blood pressure is already high enough I don't know if I can take 8 years of this.

gc70
January 22, 2009, 10:06 PM
by voting for Democrats the majority of the electorate has confirmed that they support such legislation or that other issues are more important to them than maintaining their right to self-defense

The election polls showed that the single biggest reason for voting for Democrats was the economy, followed by war-fatigue, and general disillusionment with Bush. As much as we may hate to think so, guns were not even on the radar for the vast majority of voters. The Democrats have a mandate, but it has nothing to do with guns.

A few members of Congress will introduce anti-gun bills to mollify special interest groups, and a few of the notorious gun-grabbing members of Congress would like to relive past victories by passing new anti-gun laws. But new anti-gun laws just don't attract enough voter support today to make the effort worth the visible and obvious backlash that members of Congress would suffer from gun owners.

ConstitutionCowboy
January 22, 2009, 11:30 PM
The election polls showed that the single biggest reason for voting for Democrats was the economy, followed by war-fatigue, and general disillusionment with Bush. As much as we may hate to think so, guns were not even on the radar for the vast majority of voters. The Democrats have a mandate, but it has nothing to do with guns.

A few members of Congress will introduce anti-gun bills to mollify special interest groups, and a few of the notorious gun-grabbing members of Congress would like to relive past victories by passing new anti-gun laws. But new anti-gun laws just don't attract enough voter support today to make the effort worth the visible and obvious backlash that members of Congress would suffer from gun owners.

Good God, I hope you're right!

Woody

Our government was designed by our Founding Fathers to fit within the framework of our rights and not vise versa. Any other "interpretation" of the Constitution is either through ignorance or is deliberately subversive. B.E. Wood

TT
January 23, 2009, 01:02 PM
gc70: The Democrats have a mandate, but it has nothing to do with guns.
As much as you may hate to think so, the success of Democrats in 2008 certainly is a mandate for gun control- it’s in their platform, and was espoused openly by Obama and Biden, and numerous other Democratic candidates. It also is inherent to fundamental Democratic philosophy.

gc70: But new anti-gun laws just don't attract enough voter support today to make the effort worth the visible and obvious backlash that members of Congress would suffer from gun owners.
Entirely speculation.

gc70
January 23, 2009, 04:00 PM
Entirely speculation.

Proof of the actual stance of the Democrats, as opposed to their rhetoric, is in the gun control bills introduced in the previous, Democratic-controlled Congress. The vast majority of those bills never got out of Democrat-controlled committees. And of the bills that did, one became law - the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 - which was probably more pro-gun than anti-gun.

This is also not speculation. New York has a new Senator - a Democrat who also has an A rating from the NRA.

New Senate Pick Also NRA Pick (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=422368)

McCarthy knocks Gillibrand as choice for Senate (http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/longisland/ny-pocaro236009107jan23,0,5071719.story)

The political landscape has changed over the last few decades. While gun control is one of the concepts adopted by the Democratic Party, it has slipped down the list of hot topics from where it once was. We still need to be vigilant about gun control legislation, but the Democrats are not approaching gun control as their defining "cause" as they once did.

coloradokevin
January 23, 2009, 05:37 PM
Electing Democrats does not mean that anyone who voted for them supported their entire agenda. For instance one might have felt that getting out of Iraq or universal affordable health care . With the two parties running almost polar opposite platforms this year a lot of folks had to pick what issue was the most important and vote that.

You are correct. My family is composed mostly of conservatives, historically speaking. But, most of them were also fed up with the current administration and other issues in this country, and many of them turned and voted democrat this year (I didn't, and my wife didn't).

As such, I spoke with all of them at length regarding these issues. My brother is a gun rights supporter, and I asked him why he would actively support Obama.

In his opinion, the economy, the war in Iraq, and other issues were of greater concern to *him*. He also felt that Obama wouldn't try to touch guns, due in part to the fallout that took place in congress following the ol' AWB.

I disagreed with his view, but we all have the right to choose in this country, and he voted for BO while I voted for McCain (incidentally, I didn't agree with a lot of other McCain views either... just comes down to choosing the person who you think will most take care of your issues).

I will agree that the democratic party has put a lot less emphasis on guns in recent years, which is good. But, we must also recognize that hardly a year goes by when there isn't some attempt at introducing another assault weapons ban (lets face it, to *some* democrats, guns still are THE defining issue). At this point the question remains: Would any/many democrats vote against such a ban if it ever did come to a vote again?

TT
January 23, 2009, 05:37 PM
gc70: Proof of the actual stance of the Democrats, as opposed to their rhetoric…So you’re arguing that Democrats secretly love guns, but say something else because…?

Your observation that the previous Congress was unable to implement its gun control objectives in my view points to ineffectiveness on the part of Democrats, not secret goodwill towards gun owners. While you would like to assign zero weight to the words and writings of Democratic leaders I submit that that is wishful thinking.

And Gillibrand and a handful of other ‘pro-gun’ Democrats don’t counterbalance the party platform which is clearly anti-self-defense.

gc70
January 23, 2009, 06:05 PM
So you’re arguing that Democrats secretly love guns, but say something else because…?

I don't know what you have been reading, but it was not what I wrote.

If there was no downside to adopting gun control legislation, I believe that the Democratic leadership in Congress would do so without hesitation. However, there is a downside to pushing gun control legislation. The recent actions of the Democrats show that they believe the price they would have to pay to pass gun control legislation is not worth the return. So, they make noises to appeal to the gun-control elements, but don't press the issue far enough to alienate a lot of voters.

Heller is not a panacea, but it adds a judicial wildcard to the legislative calculus. Even if the Democrats thought they could gain a marginal voter advantage from passing major gun control legislation, they face the possibility that their efforts to achieve their ideological goals could be undone by the courts and they would have still ticked off a bunch of voters.

Master Blaster
January 23, 2009, 06:15 PM
HchcaaaCHHHAAAAACK PTOOOO

Thats all I have to say about anything that comes from the Brady Bunch.

LKB3rd
January 23, 2009, 06:59 PM
Because no one trusts B.O. to keep his hands off the guns. Not even his own supporters. I've met MANY Democrats who voted for B.O. at gun shows. What do you think they were doing there? Admiring the view?

No. They too were buying guns.

I was just talking to one of my co-workers yesterday who is a gung ho BO supporter, wore his Obama baseball cap on innauguration day... He and his wife are both signing up for the pistol carry permit course.

Lightninstrike
January 23, 2009, 07:08 PM
My blood pressure is already high enough I don't know if I can take 8 years of this.

November Sierra.

TT
January 23, 2009, 07:50 PM
gc70: I don't know what you have been reading, but it was not what I wrote.
That’s what I got out of the line I quoted- my error.

gc70: If there was no downside to adopting gun control legislation, I believe that the Democratic leadership in Congress would do so without hesitation.
I agree.

gc70: However, there is a downside to pushing gun control legislation.
I do understand that you are convinced that Democrats are too frightened of voter reaction to pass anti-gun legislation; I just don’t believe you are correct. So rather than go around in circles, I will simply say again that Helmke has a good case.

TT
January 23, 2009, 07:54 PM
LKB3rd: I was just talking to one of my co-workers yesterday who is a gung ho BO supporter, wore his Obama baseball cap on innauguration day... He and his wife are both signing up for the pistol carry permit course.

Despicable hypocrites.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
January 23, 2009, 08:03 PM
Jenrick: a lot of folks had to pick what issue was the most important and vote that.


Well, that is precisely what I did, so you cannot blame me for any "gun problem."

Armed N. Free
January 24, 2009, 12:48 AM
Good points gc70!

Just my .02 worth (or .01 worth after taxes):

Having written for the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR's) and United States Code (USC), I was amazed at how much I was able to get through channels with very little review or oversight. People don't much like reading through multiple reams of legal BS to get to the last page and realize they were not intelligent enough to understand or retain any of it. Rubber stamping was rampant!

I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that not many folks have actually read (for themselves) Mrs. McCarthy's draft of H.R. 1022 from Feb 2007. Some scary bovine byproduct in there for sure! I'm pretty sure I'd have to surrender most of my evil guns or become an enemy of the state. My child's Little Tikes Ranch Rifle that the cowboy carries on his range horse would probably be OK though (didn't come with the farm set - we we had to order a conversion kit - also illegal under H.R. 1022, but relax; this one's lever action and only carries half a round).

The list of prohibited firearms in H.R. 1022 was amusing. I think getting tapped in the ear with a 22 Mag HP from 50 yards would suck just as much as getting tapped in the chest with a .308 from 300 yards - JMHO:D

As far as gc70 said the voters were concerned about - The voters were very much focused on the economy, and the war, and jobs, and anything anti-Bush.....be warned....this administration is also VERY interested in your children....probably much more than your guns for now. No Child Left Behind is going to be seamlessly fused into B.O's and the NEA's mandatory 0-5 early childhood education mandate. Hillary is in love with the UN's International Convention on the Rights of the Child. Read the UN poop on-line; it's very disturbing.

Folks...just look back at the efforts of Joycelyn Elders, Janet Reno, Donna Shalala, and Richard Riley to utterly subvert our best efforts to raise our children by whatever beliefs and morals we saw fitting. They made no bones about wanting to take away from us the ability to train-up our own children. Every fascist government has understood the importance of gaining control of the minds of it's children. NRA programs in schools are going to be as scarce as pictures of "W" in the new oval office.

We're going to have to remember to teach our children "their history" and their heritage or the revisionists will feed them the "new version".

OK - former "G" man getting down off his soap box now (my wife says I have to stop with these rants):mad:

gc70
January 24, 2009, 01:22 AM
TT: I do understand that you are convinced that Democrats are too frightened of voter reaction to pass anti-gun legislation; I just don’t believe you are correct. So rather than go around in circles, I will simply say again that Helmke has a good case.

Seeing different things in the tea leaves is the nature of political analysis. I hope my interpretation is right and yours is wrong. But I appreciate your view enough to remain very, very watchful of what happens in Congress.

Art Eatman
January 24, 2009, 02:09 PM
Good points, GC70.

But since this is more about politics than law...

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