[Moparmike]

I have given it some serious thought, and I am stuck on wether to do it or not. At the moment, I dont have the time. That could change, and I would be very interested in doing that here.

However, I need some help in "seeing the light" with these tenents of the LP ideals:

If the Government-funded (hence THE PEOPLE-funded) reasons for illegal immigrants to come here went away, I would support a limited open-border idea. I just cant bring myself to believe that having an open border with people flooding my country to be a good idea.

I also cant bring myself to believe that getting .gov regulation completely out of corporations and buisiness is a wonderful idea. I just cant.

Any ideas, helpful suggestions?

[keederdag]

I think you'd be doing the world a service, but I have concerns in some LP area's as well. I think that others here like AZlibertarian and Tamara will probably speak up and clarify it for both of us. If you want change, I think LP is the best place to start helping. God know's GOP, continues on a down hill spiral. Reguards Keeter.:D

[Danimal]

I am sure it will be a wildly successful venture. Colleges are full of people who don't want anyone to tell them what to do, and they love their drugs. Unfortunately, most of these kids haven't lived in the real world long enough to think freedom is anything more than not having Mom and Dad yell at you for being out past curfew. They haven't paid taxes and experienced how the bloated bureaucracy of government saps their money. Their idea of liberty is shotgunning beers and pulling bong hits without "The Man" telling them how to live their life. This may be a limiting factor in the success of a college LP, so as long as you completely de-emphasize that responsibility is the cornerstone of freedom, you might get enough people for a second meeting. Most college kids are perfectly happy having government do everything for them, mostly because they aren't paying for any of it and they want to look sensitive, aware, and deep. This brings me to my last helpful hint.

Get them laid.

Most college organizations thrive or wither based on association principle and what you can give them, not what they can give in return. The more you can satisfy their selfish urges (get them high, too) the more people will participate. Remember, college kids are not real people with a real grasp of how the real world works. That's why they are so succeptible to every little problem or social injustice that needs a sit-in or a march with signs.

I'm a hard-core conservative, and I make my living in politics. I consider myself a bright fellow, but looking back, I had absolutely no clue as to why I believed any of the things I do. That comes from experience, and experience comes from the real world. Neither of those things ever occur on a college campus.

[keederdag]

Jeeze Dan, I saw you posted, and thought that you'd rally some more GOP Rhetoric. I'm Aghast, and I agree, I think a guy could gain political ground by getting people laid. Man you really did go to colledge! Ya, Get em laid, maybe throw in some beer. Under what LP fund can I donate?:D

[zahc]

*quotes danimal entire post*

If you were serious I think you should be modded. I take that as a personal attack and such closedminded stereotyping does not make you look like a 'bright fellow' at all, in my eyes.

But I'm just a college student.

edited to add :fire: :rolleyes: :barf:

[Danimal]

Deleted by moderator

[keederdag]

Down boy, down....:D

[Dex Sinister]

Ya'know, I used to think that colleges would be a logical LP recruiting ground, but as an adult returning student I have to throw my vote in with Danimal.

These days, all the college students I meet are heavily influinced by the Green Party. This seems to mean, basically, (at least on this campus) that while they're all tied up in not wanting other people to tell them what to do, they are ALL tied up with wanting to micro-direct everybody else's life according to their tender sensibilites and social conscience.

We have a LP coordinator on campus, and he's extremely lucky to attract 2 people to a meeting. Hell, the young Republican club on campus does better than that - it's got 15-20 members.

I've sat with the LP coordinator and talked to students on campus about the LP party [having a couple more decades of LP philosophy under my belt than he] and when you come to the part about leaving other people alone to live thier own lives, their eyes just kinda glaze over and they wander aimlessly off with the next gust of wind.

What they seem to want is personal freedom and universal healthcare, or personal freedom and a straightjacket for corporations. Sheesh!
:banghead: Not a single clue that the idea of other people leaving them alone might be causally linked with them leaving other people alone.


Dex }:>=-

[Dex Sinister]

If the Government-funded (hence THE PEOPLE-funded) reasons for illegal immigrants to come here, I would support a limited open-border idea. I just cant bring myself to believe that having an open border with people flooding my country to be a good idea.

The question is somewhat incoherant, but if I get your drift, it's something along the lines of, "how can immigrants be good," or "it would be okay if we didn't pay them to come here."

Read Adam Smith (Wealth of Nations) or Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0517548232/qid=1064871863/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-3378259-0692611?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) Basically, economic theory says that it is always a good to buy things from people who are willing to sell them more cheaply, because it multiplies your wealth by increasing the value of your personal labor.

Adam Smith revealed this idea in the 1700's but people still hold onto the idea that somehow low-priced labor "steals" jobs rather than giving you an opportunity to do additional things with your money, resulting in more jobs.

Obviously, OTOH, if immigrants are coming here because the government is handing them goodies, then this is not a good thing, but the solution is to stop handing out goodies, not to blame the people who showed up for the hand-out the government advertised.

Dex }:>=-

[keederdag]

Make's sense to me! See, I told you some knolledgable LP would clear that up!:D

[zahc]

LOL

Good times.

I doubt you care. You were calling me lets see...

...love their drugs
a druggie. Not true at all.

...perfectly happy having government do everything for them
a freeloader. Not true.

..not real people with a real grasp of how the real world works

opinion, but probably not true.

arrogant

a:lecherous self-absorbed moron

You need to be more careful who you accuse of these things, at the risk of looking stupid. I don't care how hardcore you are when you make untrue statements about people that is slander, and slander is bad no matter what side you are on. That said(tm), I agree with you opinion of college students in general. I just thought we had a policy here on the highroad that we were to argue intelligently and not with flames.

chaz

(college student, firearm owner, NRA member, voter, and member of the libertarian party.):neener:

[keederdag]

Danimal? C'mmmmmon say your sorry?:)

[Quartus]

they're all tied up in not wanting other people to tell them what to do, they are ALL tied up with wanting to micro-direct everybody else's life according to their tender sensibilites and social conscience.


Pretty good description of liberals, college age or not.




Y'know, zahc, I re-read Danimal's post a couple of times, and I even copied it into Word and used the search function, and I just could NOT find your name in it. So where'd you get this:

You were calling me lets see...




You could learn a few things from his second post, which WAS addressed to you. (Just in case you were confused by that one, too.)

[zahc]

I am a college student. He called ALL college students those things. I was mostly pointing out how he should perhaps utilize his brain before he lumped a huge amount of people into a category and insulted them. Not THR worthy. I was not actually offended personally just amazed and surprised. The libertarian party needs people who are a little more articulate than that.

[keederdag]

Geeettttinnngggg Brutal!:uhoh:

[atek3]

I just graduated from UC-Berkeley, a bastion of conservativism if there ever was one. Our "Cal Libertarian" club had about 10 regular members plus about another 20 'rotating members' (people whose schedules were too busy to make every meeting). If you can devote the time and effort to setting up a club by all means do so. However, just a personal opinion, don't be a "college LP coordinator", set up a club to attract small l libertarians. Over half the Libertarian Party people I've met are all about voting, 'hot issues', campaigning, and other activities like that. I like 'guns, gold, and goodies' libertarians who instead of (Paraphrasing BTP) asking questions like "Bastiat, Objectivist or Libertarian?" Go out and rabble rouse, go shooting, hold counter-protests, screen Waco: the Rules of engagement and Innocents Betrayed on Campus, yada yada. "Action Libertarians". Most LP types I've met are "Egghead Libertarians."

atek3

[Danimal]

Deleted by moderator

[greyhound]

Okay, back on track here...

but the solution is to stop handing out goodies,

I'm glad to hear this! If the illegals come with NO chance of welfare, NO chance of "under the table" jobs, and NO chance of their babies being citizens, NO Driver's licenses, NO nothing given to them due to "we all are human beings with needs", then I'll say we should open the borders.

Is this what the LP proposes (I admit to being ignorant of the platform).

[zahc]

:D

[Moparmike]

Dex, I edited my post. I hate it when my fingers dont keep up with my brain.:p

You that have described colleges as fertile liberal-farms are right on the money. Hell, when Iraq 2 started, our Associated Student Government decided that it was a good idea to send a letter of protest on behalf of the student body.:fire: :cuss: Morons.

There is a large number of "Progressives:barf: ", LOTS of greens, lots of liberals, yet we still have some CR's. We have CR's because this section of AR is the only Republican district in the state. I too hate the fact that the liberals here would try to control me without wanting any control over them. Again, morons.:scrutiny:

On Drugs: We actually have a very large chapter of NORML. Maybe its a recruiting ground. Unfortunately, they are so deeply seated in liberalism, half are probably DU members.

On Getting Them Laid: Me first, them later. Much later.:D

That's why they are so succeptible to every little problem or social injustice that needs a sit-in or a march with signs.Unfortunately, that is soooooo true. Stupid Progressives and their damned anti-war protests. "Look, we got in the paper and proved we can skip class and whine. Yay us, we rock! Lets go hit the bong..."

[Dex Sinister]

I'm glad to hear this! If the illegals come with NO chance of welfare, NO chance of "under the table" jobs, and NO chance of their babies being citizens, NO Driver's licenses, NO nothing given to them due to "we all are human beings with needs", then I'll say we should open the borders.

Is this what the LP proposes? (I admit to being ignorant of the platform).

NO chance of "under the table" jobs:
No more illegality, no more under the table jobs. Jobs are, by definition, under the table because of the illegality.

NO chance of their babies being citizens:
Guaranteed by the Constitution. You're born here, you're a citizen. Sorry, don't think we can change that.

NO Driver's licenses:
That's not a well thought out idea. CA tried it [the idiots] and all it resulted in was illegals still driving, but now they have to drive uninsured and unlicensed, because they don't have a choice.

Driver's licenses are not an appropriate instrument for social policy, whether it's aliens, or alleged "deadbeat" parents, or whatever. Neither are business licenses. If you're going to have them, they should relate to their actual function in society, not whatever social idiocy one can think up to tack onto them.

[Around here, it's bullying "minors in possession of alcohol" (read "minor accused of holding, but not drinking, a drink") with the threat of a year of D/L-less-ness when they finally get a drivers license.
:what:

NO chance of welfare. NO nothing given to them due to "we all are human beings with needs":
Well, that describes the LP platform of social benefits for everybody (aside from voluntary charity, of course.)

Dex }:>=-

[atek3]

NO chance of "under the table" jobs:
No more illegality, no more under the table jobs. Jobs are, by definition, under the table because of the illegality


jobs are under the table for many reason, the two biggies for non illegals are taxes and regulations. California has made it so hard and expensive to hire employees that it is easier 90% of the time to pay them cash. My first job when I was 14 was as a clerk. I got paid 5 dollars an hour in cash at the end of my shift (below the minimum wage at the time). Oh my god, child labor, exploitation, the horror. Under the table jobs are great.

atek3

[Dex Sinister]

Oh my god, child labor, exploitation, the horror. Under the table jobs are great.

And so capitalist! Oh, the horror! <shudder>

You are, of course, correct. I was speaking merely in the context of illegal aliens getting jobs. More precisely, it would be "if there are no illegal aliens, then everyone can compete equally to obtain jobs that annoy the government, but the aliens will have a choice of whether to work legally, just like everyone else."

After all, how else is the free market supposed to circumvent the minimum wage?

Dex }:>=-

[Bill Hook]

How is giving illegals DLs going to ensure that they have insurance, etc.? I know they must provide "proof of insurance" in some states, but this need only be for a month or so just to get licensed.

So long as a DL is a ticket to getting ID papers, such that an illegal might sign up for socialist security and voter registration, I'm opposed to the idea. I believe that this is what you meant by specifying that a DL should only be good for its intended purpose, but that is a little naive, trying to roll back the clock and all on what has become a ticket to all sorts of bureaucratic and social functions.

[Moparmike]

I dont suppose we could get back on topic now that everyone has off-topically bashed and flamed their way thru my thread?

[4v50 Gary]

Moparmike - concur. But since it's been years that I've walked into a classroom for credit (I take non-credit classes just for fun now), what's a L&P coordinator? :confused:

[Moparmike]

At my local university, we dont have a "College Libertarians" like we do "College Democrats" and "College Republicans." I am pretty much the only one here at the UofA that has contacted LP about starting one, so I am their first choice in starting one as soon as I get my ducks in a row. So, that in short is what a "College LP coordinator" does.