[Bugs66]

I just received my brand new Taurus Millennium Pro and had high hopes after reading that many people with the regular Millennium has worked out their problems. Based on some initial information it was believed that the Pro series would be a great improvement over the previous.

Today I take my PT-111 Pro to the range and load up a magazine with Winchester FMJ ammo. First shot, BANG! Right in the 10 ring (@ 25ft) ! Woo hoo! I'm lovin' it! Has a great feel and balance, not too much recoil. This is gonna be sweet! Next shot - CLICK. ***? Bad ammo? I pull the trigger again - BANG! Ok, that's weird. The next few go bang then I get another click. Then another. I'm losing faith real quick. Maybe it just needs a break in?

Fast forward two hours and approx 150 rounds later. No matter what ammo I put in the magazine, I could not get one magazine to complete without FTF. Kinda went like this, in random order:
BANG - CLICK - BANG - CLICK - CLICK - BANG - BANG - CLICK

I tried Winchester FMJ, Wolf FMJ, and Ultramax lead. This is supposed to be the weapon I depend my life on? What's the deal here? Yes, before firing the first time I field stripped as shown in the manual, cleaned with CLP, and reassembled fine. It seems the firing pin has a problem striking the primers with enough force. It might be hanging on the firing pin locking mechanism. See photos below of FTF ammo.

Anyone have any advise? I never had to return a brand new gun. Should I get my money back? Again, this was to be my CCW, there is no way I can trust this now. This is really frustrating. Especially since this pistol is a great shooter (when it fires). I'm glad I still have a Makarov as a backup.

Update as of 9/29 - Returned to dealer, who returned to Taurus. Told it will be one week. We'll see.


http://www.sturmcity.net/images/pt111pro_sm.jpg

http://www.sturmcity.net/images/pt111pro_casings_sm.jpg

[denfoote]

I hate to say I told you so, but...
So, all I'm gunna say is "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!!" :rolleyes:

Do like I did. Send it back to the womb, and when it comes back, get rid of it!! That is, if the gunshop will not take it back!! ;)

Get something good, like a Springfield mil spec 1911A1 or a Glock!!!! :D

[Lightsped]

Maybe it is a bad magazine?

[Tamara]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that light primer strikes are not usually an indication of a bad magazine. ;)

[PCRCCW]

I wouldnt give up the ship as of yet. Light primer strikes may be something as simple as a dirty/blocked passage way.

The inconsistancy tells me its probably something other than a mechanical defect. Typically if its mechanical its very consistant....although its not always a rule.
It could be spring related..striker spring binding up or what have you.

Seriously..IMO, and god knows Ive been wrong before, Ive shot one of these before...rental a couple of weeks ago..and if it had been for sale...
I would have gotten it as a BUG.

Id call Taurus....ask to talk to the shop, they will tell you they dont do that, if you have to tell them you have a question about main spring weight on your gun..anything really technical they cant help you with...so they will get you to the people who can REALLY help you. See what they say to do.

Ive had great luck with my Taurus guns....in the past. Maybe Ive been lucky...but I really doubt it.

Shoot well.

[Ala Dan]

a "Limited Lifetime Warranty" !:D

Yep, thats right; its "limited" all right.:uhoh:


Best wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Old Fuff]

Unfortunately this sort of thing isn’t limited to any single maker. It may be something simple, like some internal parts that need to be burnished by dry firing, or a too-weak hammer spring because someone tried to make the double-action too easy.

Another possibility that is often overlooked is that the trigger isn’t pulled far enough to cause the firing pin block to completely unlock the firing pin. When this happens you can get light strikes, which seem to be the case in your photograph, or no strike at all. The block may also be sticking because it’s too tight or dirty. I’d try dry-firing the gun about 500 to 600 times (put a snap-cap or fired case in the chamber) and see if things got better. If not, I’d send it back to Taurus for repair or replacement. Sometimes it’s better to pick a particular pistol and work out the problems rather then to change guns and get a whole new set to contend with.

[Felonious Monk]

There is a certain "PC" even among us non-PC types.
The PC-ness at this point seems to be to WANT Taurus S/A's to be "all that".
At the same time, it ALSO seems to be to want Kel-Tec handguns to be "all POS's" of questionable reliability and dubious manufacture.

There's a very thorough comparison of the P-11 vs. PT-111 by a THR member here (http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2293&highlight=Taurus). I suspect the reality of failure rates between the two guns is comparable, but the first-class Kel-Tec service in comparison to Taurus' Consumer Resistance program makes it a no-brainer.

As always, YMMV.

[Bugs66]

...Another possibility that is often overlooked is that the trigger isn’t pulled far enough to cause the firing pin block to completely unlock the firing pin...

Just an FYI, I shoot left handed but also let my buddy try (right handed) and the problem persisted. I can assure you we pulled the trigger completely.

Thanks for the contributions by everyone. I am going to call the dealer today. So if I have to send to the factory, is that on my dime? Why should I have to spend $30 on Fedex for their defect?

I will post updates as I get them. I am leaning towards getting my money back or a store credit.

Bugs

[mini14jac]

Is it on your dime?
Depends.
When I had to send my PT145 in, I let my dealer do it.
They only charged $5.
But, they waited two weeks to get it on a truck!:fire:

Taurus refused to pay for shipping.

I called Walther USA, about ammo sensitivity with a P22.
They said that they would gladly pay for a pickup.
(Turned out to be one brand of ammo that the gun didn't like.)

Unless Taurus has changed their policy, you'll be out a few bucks.

[Sean Smith]

Anyone have any advise?

Don't buy Taurus.

[New_comer]

Hmmm...too bad... :(


Guess it's justifiable to adjust my timetable again on the Taurus Millenium series...


By another 3 years. :p

[MJRW]

I've purchased exactly 1 Taurus. I was grinding my teeth while making the purchase and while shooting it the first few times. I was so afraid of what was going to happen and how I would have to deal with customer service to get such and such fixed. It works fine. But that's the only Taurus I expect I will ever buy. Too many horror stories out there. I've experienced a few poor Taurii myself. My recommendation is don't buy something you are going to bet your life on if the bad review isn't the anomoly. Stick with the big names people know and love: Glock, Sig, H&K, S&W, Ruger, Kimber, and Colt. Things can go wrong with any gun. Take the lowest gambles. If you lose, at least with those guys, you will get good customer service.

PCRCCW, how is a spring bind not a mechanical problem? Is the spring just being grumpy?

[Bugs66]

Update, dealer will be sending pistol to Taurus for repair. Dealer will pay for postage. I am willing to go through one interation of the repair process. I hope this nails it, look forward to an update.

Bugs

[22luvr]

If I'm not mistaken, the PT111 is a clone of the Kel-Tec P11 which makes it a striker-fired action. If that's the case, the firing pin has a retaining screw or allen fastener on top of the slide that holds the firing pin in place. Unlike a hammer-striker which uses mass to fire, the striker-fired mechanism utilizes speed and momentum. Any drag on that lightweight firing pin and you have light strikes! The firing pin retaining screw must be snugged up against the firing pin, then backed off at least 1/4 turn to free up the pin. Perhaps something was gunking up the firing pin channel, another possible problem. It's too bad your gun dealer couldn't have checked that out because the fix is really-really easy, if that is indeed the problem and I'll bet it is. Sure, you're getting proper indentation on your primers but if there is the least bit of a drag on that firing pin, it could be slowing down to the point of denting but not igniting. I carefully chamfered the firing pin channel on my P11 to keep it cleaner. Does any of this make any sense?
I wouldn't worry about your PT111; Light strikes are usually an easy cure and your pistol should work fine when you get it back.

[PCRCCW]

MJRW,
Well yes as a matter of fact....grumpy springs are the culprit for every gun problem arent they? :D :evil:

In regards to your remark...I seem to break things down differently than some people do.....:what: To me spring related issues are a common thing on most guns...remember I love the gun company that uses the biggest maker of crappy springs on the planet...my beloved CZ.

Although properly working springs do equate to proper mechanical function...I still equate them as a non mechanical part. REAL mechanical parts are the striker, trigger mechanism, trigger bars...hammers, sears and such or "hard parts" as it were.

I understand your point...and yes I weird...but you may be too for all I know. In my mind...my analogy makes sense and the voices I hear agree with me .....thats all that matters. :D

Shoot well

[10-Ring]

What :what: Taurus have QC issues? Say it ain't so! :what:

[Island Beretta]

The best Taurus pistols are the ole' Berettas..some even say they are better than the current Berettas (on a price point basis)..if you must have a Taurus get one of those:evil: ;)

[Ford]

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO lucky that the dealer is handling this for you and you don't have to deal with those BOGUS Taurus customer service reps.

Also good luck with Taurus actually fixing your gun. I sent a Millinium series pistol in to have some work done on it and after about a month they fixed one of the three things that I asked them to.

Hey, I can tolerate getting a lemon of a gun but there so called customer service is a FREAKING JOKE.

Taurus doesnt make that good of a gun to have as many internal problems as they have.

Oh yeah, they lost my gun for about a week. That was fun.

Ok I quit before I get to excited, now I need a smoke

:fire: :cuss: :banghead: :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

[Ala Dan]

I would be willing to put earnest money up front that the
Tauri will not be fixed upon return!:( :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[smooth operator]

I was involved in a similar situation awhile back. I was at a gun range & the guy at the next stall over had a taurus millenium. He let me fire it & it took about 10 trigger pulls to get off 5-6 rounds. I gave it back too him & shot my p-11. I was using the cheapest ammo I could get & the p-11 had no failures. I'm not a big Taurus fan, but you'd think they would make good on it.
Jerry

[Bugs66]

Wow, you guys are brutal. Well, my dealer says it will be back in a week. I don't know if he has an inside track, but he promised he would make good one way or another. If this thing doesn't work then I'm gonna expect something else, like a store credit or something. I will definately let you know.

Bugs

[bigjim]

Beware products marketed with words like:
millenium
eXtreme
HYPER
Radical
new and improved
Pro

For example this from the Taurus web site:

Hey chump....I mean fella try the all NEW and IMPROVED MILLENIUM PRO. This HYPER concealable pistol with its eXteme RADICAL design is so cool you just got to have one.

[George Hill]

Before you crucify Taurus for this cat having light primer strikes... Look at all the other guns talked about in other threads. Every company let's slip a lemon now and then.
The real measure is how they deal with those lemons.
Taurus will make it right if you give them a chance.

Personally, I like Taurus.

I have delt with other "better" companies who didn't give a crapola if I had a problem with my brand new gun.
HK is one. SIG is one. Beretta is one. Colt is one. Browning is one.

I don't care about a company that makes a booboo. I care about the company that fixes the booboo.

[Doug S]

Wow, a week would be really quick for Taurus. I had to send my PT-111 back twice (also a 650 CIA once) and it never took less than a month & a half to two months. I hope your experience with Taurus customer service is better than mine. Good luck & if you do decide to get rid of the Taurus, check out Glock.

[Walt Sherrill]

22Luvr wrote:

"If I'm not mistaken, the PT111 is a clone of the Kel-Tec P11 which makes it a striker-fired action. "

While I think the PT-111 is, as you suggest, a striker-fired weapon, the P-11 isn't. If your P-11 has a striker, its truly unique, and a real collector's gun!

Every P-11 I've owned, handled, shot, or seen, has a hammer and is DAO. (The hammer is just concealed and doesn't stick out the back of the slide.)

They're totally different guns even though they look alike. Not close to being clones. (The P-11, for example, has an aluminum frame with a polymer cover, the Taurus, I think, has a polymer frame with some metal inserts.)

Your suggestions, however, might work for the PT-111...

[22luvr]

Let's strike "striker." The P11 (I owned one) has a tiny internal hammer that struck a firing pin. For want of not knowing what else to call it, I called that iddy bitty hammer inside the P11 a "striker."

However, getting back to the crux of the matter, doesn't the PT111 have a similar firing mechanism? If so, my explanation still has merit, even though I don't have my terminology straight.

[Walt Sherrill]

The P-11 has a hammer, and uses leverage and a strong spring to give the hammer enough momentum to slam the firing pin forward and ignite the round. (That's why the trigger pull on a P-11 is so long and heavy: its designed that way to keep hammer weight light so that a 'dropped" gun can't ignire a round. Clever design and very safe.)

A "striker-fired" gun uses an altogether different mechanism to send the firing pin forward, and that's what the PT-111 appears to use.

There is no hammer in the PT-111 and there are NO internal similarities between the two guns. (You can see this in the parts diagram online at www.Taurususa.com and at www.Kel-Tec.com)

With the PT-111, the firing pin is "cocked" or "set" when the slide is racked the first time, and reset automatically with each following shot. The slide must be cocked by hand if there's a misfire, as pulling the trigger alone won't set the striker. (At least that's the case with other striker-fired guns; as I said, it's been a long time since I messed with a PT-111, and I simply don't remember.)

There may be something impeding the forward movement of the firing pin -- and that's why I said there may be some merit to your suggestions.

I'd suspect the firing pin lock for starters.

(I had a firing pin block spring get twisted out of shape on a Witness Sport Long Slide, and it would fire in DA mode but not in SA mode -- but everything felt, looked, and sounded correct when pulling the trigger. Reshaping/replacing the spring got it functioning again.)

[Ford]

Before you crucify Taurus for this cat having light primer strikes... Look at all the other guns talked about in other threads. Every company let's slip a lemon now and then. The real measure is how they deal with those lemons.
Taurus will make it right if you give them a chance.


I feel the exact same way. If I get a lemon of a gun, hey it stinks but life goes on. Send it back and have it fixed. No problem right.
Not the case with MY experience with Taurus.
I gave them plenty of chances.
They dropped the ball, over and over again.

I like some of their guns, but because of the way I was treated and the fact that my gun was NEVER actually fixed I will never purchase another gun made by them and I will try to persuade others to do the same.

[zarroboogs]

OK, folks. I had just purchased a PT111 (Millennium Pro model) also, but had not had a chance to fire it until today. I was pretty worried from the original post that mine might have the same (or another) problem.

Got to the range and started with a magazine or two of Winchester ammo. Not a single mis-fire or any other kind of hiccup. Switched to Wolf 9mm, just for a change of pace. Tried another magazine. Did some rapid-fire. Not a hitch.

I switched back to the Winchester ammo and finished all I had to use that day. Overall, it was 170 rounds and it worked flawlessly.

I was very happy with how the PT111 felt. It fits my hand really well and the recoil is light. It has nice sights. The trigger pull is a bit long, but not gritty. It was pretty predictable, I thought. Accuracy? Not astounding, but as a relative newbie, I'll take most of the credit there.

I'd like to put another couple of hundred rounds through it before I'm ready to call it good, but I thought folks here might like to hear of one that worked the way that it is supposed to.

I'm willing to bet that the OPs gun will be returned in working order. Can't wait to hear how it turns out.....

[WonderNine]

Bah! If you're on a budget then get a CZ compact instead. Not this plastic substandard Glock wannabe thing or a Kel-Tec either!!!

[Walt Sherrill]

I had a very nice Kel-Tec P-11 and now have a CZ-75B Compact. I don't view them as being guns designed for the same use.

The Kel-Tec, I think, is a CCW for up close and personal. Very light and very easy to conceal.

The CZ-75B Compact is more like a full-size service weapon that has been reduced in size to be more concealable. I think its a far superior weapon, but its a bit harder to conceal and much,much heavier.

I prefer the CZ because I found the CZ-75B easier (for me) to shoot well --but know of others who don't have any difficulties shooting the Kel-Tec well.

The Kel-Tec is a wonderfully simple design that is easily home-gunsmithed, and comes with a warranty and customer service support that can only be matched, not exceeded.

For me, the CZ is better, but I understand that might not be true for everyone. And the P-11 is VERY inexpensive.

And while its probably a minor point, I prefer the restrike capability of the true DAO Kel-Tec to the striker-fired PT-111.

[Stevie-Ray]

My old PT-111 was ditched in favor of a Glock 26. While the Taurus wasn't a bad gun, I personally had too many problems keeping the mag in. No problem there with the Glock, and it's way more accurate to boot. I still like my PT-22, though.

Hopefully the "Pros" are even better.

[Bugs66]

Just a quick update - Taurus apparently has fixed my gun and shipped last Friday. I will have the pistol back this week. I will post a new range report as soon as I can. I guess I'm lucky considering what I have heard OR maybe Taurus customer service is on the rebound?

Stay tuned...

[lawcox]

I too purchased a Taurus Millenium Pro 9mm about a month ago as an off duty gun. After taking it to the range a couple of times, I have had no failures or light firing pin strikes. The sights are a touch low and to the left, but since they are not windage adjustable, that's that. My biggest gripe was that it didn't come with a second magazine, and most of the shops that I've been in only have the magazines for the old PT-111. Those magazines are nice Mec-Gar products, and while they do fit in the Pro, they do not lock the slide back on empty, and they do not come with the correct little finger attachment. I did not purchase one, so I don't know if they would feed properly or not. I have been able to find the new magazines on the net, but have not received one yet. Overall, I think this was an acceptable purchase in terms of a reliable handgun for basic protection, but mine will probably be traded for a Glock. If you are used to shooting Glocks as a primary weapon, the grip angle on the Pro is quite different than the Glock.
The Millenium's striker is not drawn back or "set" until the trigger is pulled, making the trigger a true double action, unlike the Glock trigger system. This is what allowed Bugs to simply pull the trigger again to get a second strike on the primer when he had the light primer strikes.
All this said, I'll probably use the Millenium to teach my girlfriend to shoot.

[10-Ring]

It might be a little quick to jump on the condemnation bandwagon. Let's see what happens after its trip back to Taurus, then condemn it! :evil:

[ARperson]

I bought the PT-111 as my first carry gun. Took it out the range the day I bought it for a field test, so to speak. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. Even had the hubby try. No joy. Took it to a gunsmith, who promptly used one of his wonderful toys to tell us that it had an 11+ lb. trigger!!!!!! :eek: I was fighting the trigger so much that I couldn't keep it on target.

Took it home to clean and ponder what to do with it since it obviously wasn't going to work as a carry gun. Couldn't disassemble it. Barrel jammed in the slide while trying to remove it (weird angular forces couldn't move it one way or the other).

Promptly sold it and replaced it with a Glock 26. The only problem I've had through that was a bullet stuck in the barrel due to a bad reload.

I will NEVER buy another Taurus semi-auto again. Now, having said that, the Glock got to be a little heavy in the purse, so I went looking for something a little lighter. Settled on a .38 snubby ultralite-ish. Since I refuse to buy S&W, I looked at the Taurus M85. Love it!

Don't know what it is, but the Taurus semi-autos seem to be hit or miss. But their revolvers are fabulous, AFAIC. Never heard a bad word about the revolvers.

[COK]

I had an early PT-111 , I liked the size and shape and through about 500 rds never had a problem , but I traded it as I was not impressed with the quality of workmanship, and felt it would not hold up over many years of use. I have shot other Taurus pistols outside of the Millennium line that seem very well made.

[Bugs66]

Ok folks time for the final update!!!

First - this is a Millenium Pro PT-111. I think the quality of workmanship on this line is substantially better than the previous Millenium PT-111.

So I was previously "not happy". Well I am happy to say that I am now happy because I took it out to the range today and put over 250rds through it without one problem whatsoever. Shot Winny, SXT, and Ultramax. Rapid, and slow fire. Very accurate shooter too!

It looks like Taurus took care of the problem I had. I have to say that my experience with their customer service has been great. I got it back in 2 weeks and the problem is fixed, who can ask for more?

So this will be a keeper for me and become my CCW.

Thanks again for all your comments!

Bugs

[Jason Demond]

My regular PT111 (non pro model), had to take a trip back to Taurus for a broken trigger. This was a while back though, and I wasn't mad at Taurus, I was mad at the dealer who sold it to me. Taurus fixed the problem, and I had it (the gun) back within a month. The pistol now has over 1000 rounds through it, without missing a beat. It will even feed an empty case.:D.

I use it for a carry gun. I keep it stoked with 11 124gr Speer Gold Dot's, and CCW it in a Blade-Tech IWB.

[Tslick]

Card in the case says "The Tarus Lifetime Repair Policy". It reads as if Tarus will take care of all repairs within reasonable conditions at no cost.

Anyone have a reason to test this on a recently purchased PT111?

I just purchased a PT 111 PRO and haven't fired the first round yet.

[Babalouie]

How the crap does this post range from Sept. 2003...that's 03 people...to today 2008? :what::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Ben86]

I have advice: Glock

Yes I am biased but with good reason. The only budget brand I would trust would be Ruger. I might give the new Taurus 1911 a chance because it seems they really upscaled their quality level on that one.

With Glock you get a great gun and great customer service. It's well worth the extra $200.

I say fix it then sell it.

Oh, I just noticed the date on this thread. I feel silly....

[kitsapcharly]

I've bough two Taurus autos. The first worked perfectly and still does. The second was the worst possible excuse for a firearm...the same model in a different caliber. It took months to come back from Taurus and only some of the many problems had been seen to. I traded it in on another type of gun.
They both looked alike but the second was a total lemon and Taurus really did not stand by their warranty in any real way. I will never buy another Taurus.
Companys that stand behind their warranties include Bersa, Kel-Tec and Springfield Armory. Others probably do too but these are some Known to. They have good products and stand behind them.

[pdunc]

I own a Taurus Mil Pro 9mm and started having the problem after less than 5 hundred rounds (cleaning in between). Problem grew worse. Did a deep clean. First 10 rounds went through no problem. Got very excited. Next 10 rounds were terrible. Guess I'll send mine off too.

[m2steven]

My Taurus facts: Bought 2, sent 2 back. They both came back fixed and are now great firearms. The semi-auto needed a trigger bar adjustment to fix light strikes.
Parts in my Judge just came unscrewed and well, that isn't very good is it. Anyway, back from the factory it's perfect. Has a VERY good double action trigger and is quite accurate.

I like both guns and both seem to be well designed. I think the folks at the factory are slapping these things together with zero management supervision and testing.

My little 709 is basically a Glock now. And my Judge is the most entertaining gun to shoot I own.

[-v-]

Holy thread necromancy, Batman! 6 year old thread back for more, amazing.

[lgjhn]

Wow!! Whadda thread....:eek:
So my question: Is the new 3rd generation PT111 Pro any better than the earlier models? Have they worked the bugs out of this gun?

[lgjhn]

Well, I guess I can now answer my own questions.
Yes and yes.
I purchased a new third generation PT111 Pro a week ago today. Brought it home, cleaned it, put a Hogue Handall Jr. on it and took it out back and immediately rattled off about 100 of my 115gr RN reloads. Not a hiccup...nada...all went bang when they were supposed to. Yesterday, I took it to the indoor range and put another 250 rounds of mixed type ammo...not a hiccup...just went bang when it was called to do. It ate everything that I fed it. Accuracy was superb for such a small gun and the Heine Straight 8 sights were right on, but they're hard on this old man's eyes. I will likely upgrade to a 3-dot configuration. Overall, I'd say its pretty reliable and accurate. I will likely put another 250 rounds thru it next week before I completely rely on it for ccw.

[jojo200517]

To all the people whining about all the old threads being brought up, that is probably a result of similar people screaming use the freaking search function.

People do that then don't look at the date.

[FenderTK421]

As to the newer Milleniums... I have been shooting a PT145 Pro for the last year. Great gun, never a flaw. People love to bash Taurus, I own 3 and love them.