[yotesmoker]

Just how hot a round can the new 357 vaqueros handle safely>

[Master Blaster]

Any SAAMI spec round.

Uncle Chesters recipe for fillin' the case up with bullseye and scrapin off the excess, is not recommended.

[jjohnson]

Right. SAAMI spec is as far as you should go - Rugers and Contenders can take a LOT, but what's the point of going past the limit on a .357? Top end
loads for .357 aren't really wimpy - and if you're shooting at something that needs more than a .357 will deliver, maybe you should be looking at 44Mag or something more up to the job.

[Glockman17366]

I know Ruger limits the .45 Colt to standard pressures but I've not seen or heard any such warning on the .357 models.
I looked at both the .357 and .45 New Vaqueros. The metal between the cylinder bores on the .45 model isn't so thick, but the .357 cylinders look damned robust. Just a visual estimate, but proportionally, the .357 New Vaquero looks pretty close to the Blackhawk .45 cylinders.

BTW, I went for a 5½" New Vaquero in .357 (as a mate for my 1894C). I've had a .45 Blackhawk convertable for quite a while.

I'll welcome correction or clarification

[Lovesbeer99]

Don't confuse the Ruger Super Redhawk with all other Rugers. Stay within published limits. It could be dangerous for you, your gun, and anyone near by otherwise.

[goodtime]

Buffalo Bore, makers of HOT LOADED ammo, say this about their 357 loads:

"Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver—this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don’t phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo."

I have no experience with their 357, and I don't know how loads shooting a 180 grain bullet at 1375 f/s from a 4" bbl, or 125 grains at 1603 from the same length, can be fired "in any all steel revolver." But, Buffalo Bore is a reputable manufacturer.
I would not attempt to reload my own to meet these figures, though. Anyone ever try their 357?

[Master Blaster]

I know Ruger limits the .45 Colt to standard pressures but I've not seen or heard any such warning on the .357 models.


Then I guess you haven't read the manual that came with your gun. You know that paper thingie the manufactutrer includes in the box. It says it real clear in that there silly manual.

[batmann]

I have not used BB in .357, but I have shoot Double Tap 158 gr in my 50TH Anniversary'Flat Top' which the same frame size as the new Vaquero's. It is a stout load for sure, but very close to BB.
Ruger's should hold up to any sane factory load.

[Glockman17366]

Then I guess you haven't read the manual that came with your gun. You know that paper thingie the manufactutrer includes in the box. It says it real clear in that there silly manual.

Actually, I did read the manual. In fact, I reviewed it just before I wrote that post.
What page was the warning on? The only ammo warning I saw that would apply was on page 14 and read as follows:

WE SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE
OR INJURY WHATSOEVER OCCURRING IN CONNECTION WITH, OR
AS THE RESULT OF, THE USE IN RUGER REVOLVERS OF FAULTY, OR
NONSTANDARD, OR “REMANUFACTURED” OR HANDLOADED
(RELOADED) AMMUNITION, OR OF CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN
THOSE FOR WHICH THE FIREARM WAS ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED.

In this warning, it applies to all reloaded ammunition, not just the "Ruger loads". I'm looking for the one that states not to use hot loads in the Vaqueros.I've read plenty (but not in the Ruger manual) that discuss the hot .45 Colt loads, but none that specified .357 Magnum. All of these warnings were in reveiws of the New Vaquero, BTW...not anything official from Ruger.

BTW, keep your sarcasm to yourself in the future, if you please.

[1911Tuner]

The New Vaquero is essentially built on the old model Blackhawk frame, with different sights is and amply strong for any SAAMI standard ammo for the caliber. The same goes for the .45 Caliber New Vaqueros.

Note that the New Vaqueros are NOT to be used with any handloading data intended for the New Model Blackhawk in .45 Colt, which is a much more robust revolver than the New Models. Note that the New Vaqueros aren't offered in .41 or .44 Magnum caliber.

The original Vaqueros are as strong and durable as the New Model Blackhawks, and were available in the aforementioned magnum calibers.

The original Vaquero has been discontinued in favor of the New Vaquero, though I can't imagine why...unless it's because the demand for smaller, lighter 1873 SAA sized guns aimed at the CAS shooters eclipsed it...and demand for the original "big" Vaqueros wasn't great enough to compete with the adjustable sighted Blackhawks.

[BlkHawk73]

My thoughts on this...if you feel you need to go above SAAMI specs for a cartridge, simply go to a more powerful chambering to begin with. Sooo...rather than hot rodding a .357 mag, go with a .357 max. Rather than hot rodding a .45 LC go with a .454, etc, etc. Not rocket science.

[Glockman17366]

The question I had concerned only the .357 Magnum and if RUGER specifies using the "Ruger only" loads.
So far, we have quite a bit of opinion (no doubt, from folks more knowledgeable then I am), but I just want to see an official RUGER statement.
'

[Beagle-zebub]

Is there even such thing as a "Ruger only" .357 magnum load?

[Stinger]

Is there even such thing as a "Ruger only" .357 magnum load?

Not that I've seen...

[tango2echo]

Well,...I found out. I was loading some 125gr XTP's with W296 to the limits. Showed no signs of pressure until the cylinder blew into a bunch of little pieces. Nothing hurt but my pride. Gun was repaired at the factory for a very reasonable price. (This was in a 6" GP100 Ruger at only ever-so-slightly over spec)

T2E

[1911Tuner]

The question I had concerned only the .357 Magnum and if RUGER specifies using the "Ruger only" loads.
So far, we have quite a bit of opinion (no doubt, from folks more knowledgeable then I am), but I just want to see an official RUGER statement.


Again...

The New Vaquero is essentially built on the old model Blackhawk frame, with different sights is and amply strong for any SAAMI standard ammo for the caliber. The same goes for the .45 Caliber New Vaqueros.

And to clarify...

"Ruger Only" loads only apply to the New Model Blackhawk revolvers in .45 Colt caliber. There is no "Ruger Only" data in any of the manuals for the .357 Blackhawks OR the New Vaqueros. The New Vaquero is safe with any SAAMI standard pressure ammunition. It has to be. Otherwise, Ruger would be open to no end of civil litigation when their guns started coming unwrapped.

However, if you insist on assembling proof-level ammunition on a regular basis...all bets are off.

[Glockman17366]

Thanks for all the responses!
I don't reload (yet...planning to do it for .45 Colt).
I had read quite a few articles about the New Vaquero before I bought mine so I knew about the history of the gun's size and design. Most of the articles had promolgated the limitations on the hotter loads on .45 Colt guns, but I'd never seen anything "official" concerning the .357 guns. These articles included one in a Ruger catalogue, BTW.
So, my question was more a matter of curiousity at this point.

[Beagle-zebub]

My understanding is that reloading manuals aren't going to give you a .357 magnum load that will blow up a New Vaquero. (Not to say that you shouldn't work your loads up.) So those full-house H110, L'il Gun, and 2400 loads are fair game.

[Master Blaster]

There is a difference between .357 and .45 colt.

.357 is a high pressure round already, top loads run around 40,000 PSI .
.45 colt standard loads run around 14,000 psi. The ruger super blackhawk and the older standard blackhawks in .45 colt, are the same frame and cylinder used for the .44 magnum guns, apparently the heat treatment is also the same.

Ruger only loads for those .45 Colt guns run around 40,000 PSI, which is the same as the loads for .44 magnum + or - a few thousand PSI.

So you are loading a .44 magnum level .45 colt round for a gun that is designed for that pressure level, The .357 magnum round is already at that pressure level so what would a Ruger only .357 magnum round run at? 60,000 psi???? How much additional powder would this require? How quickly would you exceed the safe pressure level by adding more powder, a small addition could yield a dramatic pressure spike. Something to keep in mind.

[1911Tuner]

A wise man once said: (Can't recall what his name was)

"There's nothing that you can do with a handload that hasn't already been done, and the pressure required to drive a 150 grain bullet to 3,000 fps in 20 inches of rifled barrel is more than sufficient to blow your eyes through the back of your head."

:)

[EnsignJimmy]

.45 colt standard loads run around 14,000 psi. The ruger super blackhawk and the older standard blackhawks in .45 colt, are the same frame and cylinder used for the .44 magnum guns, apparently the heat treatment is also the same.

Indeed. The .45 Colt's SAAMI spec pressure level was established in deference to all those old pre-WW1 smokeless-framed Colts out there, and should be rigorously observed in Colt SAA-pattern guns (especially cheap Italian clones,) given the paper-thin cylinder walls and thin topstraps. Rugers can be loaded hotter because they've got thick cylinders, beefy topstraps, and modern alloys with modern heat-treatment processes. Same with other guns built on .44 Magnum frames, using .44 Magnum heat treatment.

The .357 Magnum was designed for guns with 20th century steels and 20th century heat treatment. As a result, nearly all .357 Magnum guns (save some of those ultralight Space Age snubbies) have the same max pressure level, and use the same reloading data.

Ruger only loads for those .45 Colt guns run around 40,000 PSI, which is the same as the loads for .44 magnum + or - a few thousand PSI.

Incorrect. As a rule-of-thumb, Ruger-only .45 Colt loads should never exceed 80% of the pressure level for the .44 Magnum. Alloys may be the same, heat-treatment may be the same, but frames and cylinders are also the same size. Meaning that the .45 Colt cylinder will have less metal to contain the pressure, since the holes drilled into it are bigger.

[Gryffydd]

Incorrect. As a rule-of-thumb, Ruger-only .45 Colt loads should never exceed 80% of the pressure level for the .44 Magnum. Alloys may be the same, heat-treatment may be the same, but frames and cylinders are also the same size. Meaning that the .45 Colt cylinder will have less metal to contain the pressure, since the holes drilled into it are bigger.

This is exactly correct. I think the number I saw on Linebaugh's site was 83%. While you never want to get your pressure close to .44 Mag levels in a .45 Colt, you can use pretty much the same recipes (this is NOT an across the board statement--there are exceptions). The same charge/bullet weight will generate less pressure in the .45 Colt. Supposedly the case volume is 11% greater on the .45 Colt. Does that mean 11% less pressure? I have no idea on that one. But looking at load data for Ruger Only loads and comparing it to .44mag load data you'll see that they're fairly close.

[goodtime]

The term, "Ruger Only Loads" was coined by parties other than Ruger. Ruger wouldn't expose themselves to liability by vouching for any firearm being used above SAAMI specs. Ruger stamps their revolvers with the respective cartridge chambering, and that's it; no further promises on any of their guns. It is just a well known fact that some of their revolvers are built extra strong, so they can take loadings exceeding SAAMI specs. But, as far as Ruger is concerned, it's consumer beware, and all of their guns are guaranteed up to SAAMI limits, but not further.

[Cocked & Locked]

I'll stick with my Old Model Vaquero .45 Colt...hand loads either mild or or on the warm side. :cool:

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/352654691.jpg

[Glockman17366]

Nice gun...
I wanted the New Vaquero because of it's size (and, as posted erlier...mte for the 1894C)

[AgentOrange]

let me ask you,
where does everyone get there info on using hotter loads in the 45lc vaquero?

i just went thru the manual on the new model vaquero cover to cover, and unless i missed something i dont see ANYTHING in the manual that states there are any ammunition lmitations on the new model vaquero 45lc.

in addition, i contacted a buddy of mine who owns a gun shop and owns 2 ruger vaquero 45lc stainless. asked him what his opinion was n the subject, and he told me he regularly fires hotter than factory handloads in his and has never had a problem. he also told me he spoke to ruger and the tech there told him that the vaquero will handle virtually everything on the market. the onlt thing they said that he should be cautious of is shooting the 300gr +P loads . everything else they said would be acceptable.

i would also imagine that if there were problems with them int hat department or there were restrictions from the factory on ammo that you culd shoot theu them that there would be something the guns factory manual stating NOT to fire hotter loads in it as there is some sort of risk.

nothing personal guys, but i cant see any problems wit the hotter loads thru the NM vaquero if the FACTORY doesnt see any problems with them.

[1911Tuner]

i just went thru the manual on the new model vaquero cover to cover, and unless i missed something i dont see ANYTHING in the manual that states there are any ammunition lmitations on the new model vaquero 45lc.

Nor is there anything in the Blackhawk manuals that advocates or promotes the practice of shooting hot-rod stuff in the large-framed New Model Blackhawks. Ruger has never given the stamp of approval on any of the "Ruger Only" data found in the reloading manuals. Ever.

The New Vaquero is built on Ruger's medium frame, like the original Blackhawk. Not only is the cylinder wall thickness a factor, but the frame's topstrap comes into the equation as well. You can hot load the ammo for a New Vaquero if you wish, but you'll pay the price with a loose and possibly dangerous revolver in a short time. Remember that the large number of wrecked Model 19s...from a steady diet of full pressure .357 ammo...was directly responsible for Smith & Wesson's decision to market the L Frame line.

[Old Fuff]

Some years ago I discussed the "Ruger & Thompson Center only" .45 loads offered in some loading handbooks with Bill Ruger Sr. They outraged him, as a number of revolvers had been returned to the factory with expanded chambers, with a few that were literally blown up. He called this "revolver abuse," and pointed out that the gun owners almost always expected to have the guns fixed under warrantee.

Those that are bound and determined to shoot .45 Colt overloads would be far better off if they bought a revolver chambered in .454 Casull or .460 S&W. You can load the .454 with a 300 grain bullet, and safely drive it up to 1500+ FPS. If that doesn't ring your bell go look at a S&W X-frame.

[1911Tuner]

Fuff..I've often said...If you don't believe that a Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk can be blown up...you just haven't been trying hard enough.

:D

[TheVirginian]

Yeah, it's not a good idea to expect any gun to outperform its engineered specifications. The caliber is stamped on the barrel as not everyone has a manual with them...

SAAMI specs the rounds and Ruger chambers them for those rounds. OK, it's fair to say that a heavier walled gun might last longer than a lighter walled gun when using the SAAMI ammo but when you start writing your own specs, you are taking matters into your own hands. Or worse, blowing matter back into your face and hands. Stick to factory ammo or factory spec loads. It's not cool to be disfigured.
-Bill

[1911Tuner]

SAAMI specs the rounds and Ruger chambers them for those rounds.

To be fair...and play the devil's advocate just a bit...

The SAAMI pressure limits on the .45 Colt cartridge were set with the fact that there are still quite a few old 1873 Colts floating around...revolvers that were designed around black powder pressures, and revolvers of unknown history and mechanical condition...so the cartridge is necessarily loaded a bit light. The .44 Special is another cartridge that isn't loaded to its potential and for the same reasons.

The Vaqueros and even the modern Colts have better steels, and will hold up a little better than the 1st Generation Colts, even when they were new.

The loading manuals that show "Ruger Only" data are a little more...adventurous...than what would be wise and prudent in a Colt or a New Vaquero, and they even push the envelope for the big Blackhawks. The pressures for some of that data is well into .44 Magnum territory.

There's an old axiom that would seem to fit:

"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

And there's a couple of new ones as well:

"There's nothing that you can prove with a handload that hasn't already been proven."

And: (Paraphrased)

"The pressure required to drive a 250-grain bullet to 1200 fps in 6 inches of barrel is more than enough to blow your eyeballs through the back of your head."

Be well. Be careful. Above all...Don't be stupid. You can't run down to the parts store and get new fingers and eyes.

[AgentOrange]

ok gents,



i just spent the better part of an hour n the phone with rugers newport,new hampshire office. i spoke to two different people in length about the new model vaquero 45LC. (cant remeber the guys name, but the lady i spoke to was named tina), and BOTH of them told me that the new model ruger vaquero will handle EVERYTHING ON THE MARKET LOADWISE,INCLUDING ALL +P AND +P+ LOADINGS,AND BUFFALO BORES LOADINGS..

they did mention that they do not reccomend shooting reloads in there guns, BUT on that note, if the new mode vaquero will handle +P+ ammo, i wouldnt think anyone would be reloading over that unless there either asking for punishment or looking to intentionally blow the gun up in there face. i also asked them about the ruger only loads, and they told me again that they dont advocate the use of any reloads in there guns, BUT ANY LOADING that is at or below the industry standard for +P+ ammunition wouldnt effect the gun

so i guess what i am saying is,im not trying to sound like an A hole, before believing anything you read online that someones posted, or i should say instead of asking a technical question online about certain products, maybe its best if you actually call the company that manufactures the product a persons inquiring about and ask them. ive found online that in alot of instances people just repeat what they ave heard or read elsewhere without actually checking into it themselves. as an experienced handloader (ive been reloading for almost 40 years, and havent bought factory ammunition for a gun except for rimfire in over 35 years),i stay on the book and compare various load data before pulling the handle.

and i have to agree with your posting 1911tuner, you CANT go buy new appendages. always better safe than sorry,BUT i would have to go with what ruger is telling me about there product. im sure they wouldnt give anyone inaccurate info as in doing so would surely lead to a large lawsuit if they DID tell someone its OK t use certain ammo and then come t find out its not.


now, if you dont believe what im telling you, the number for rugers NH plant is 603-865-2442. pick "technical" at the menu and when they answer, ask to speak to "tina" about the 45lc new model vaquero.

Cartridge Standard pressure +P pressure Notes
9 x 19 mm 35,000 38,500 10% increase
.38 Special 17,000 18,500 9% increase
.45 ACP 21,000 23,000 9.5% increase
.38 Auto 26,500 36,500 38% increase to make .38 Super
.45 Colt 14,000 25,000 79% increase, Ruger only load


(oh, and by the way, i do have a s&w 500, 8 3/8", and have reloaded for it since day 1, including thr 700gr tyrannosaurus thumpers.....LOL)

[1911Tuner]

Well...All-righty then! Do carry on...and let us know how it works out for ya. :)

[1911Tuner]

Never mind. You did say New Vaquero.

:rolleyes:

[Byron]

I use the Speer #10 for my Blackhawk in 357.and use the middle load data for 296. Using the same data in my Model 27 produces excess pressure making ejection difficult even in minimal loads with 296,but yet will fire and eject factory ammo. My Cimmaron Model P in 357 will shoot the same data as my BH all day.My point is pressures can vary from gun to gun.It's not worth getting hurt or damaging a gun.Byron

[rcmodel]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5496321&postcount=23

rc

[ArmedBear]

Worth noting is that Buffalo Bore's hot .357 loads are in SAAMI spec's; they're not "Ruger-only" or "Contender" loads.

180 grains at 1400 fps is not too shabby! It's about as much as you can expect from .357 anyway. Want more? Carry a bigger gun.:)

You can also make hot loads like these yourself with Lil' Gun, and you'll find that the pressure is WAY below SAAMI maximums -- much lower than most full-house .357 loads.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

[1911Tuner]

Buffalo Bore's hot .357 loads are in SAAMI spec's; they're not "Ruger-only" or "Contender" loads.

There isn't any .357 "Ruger Only" load data to the best of my knowin'. That's .45 Colt data...and it's 80%+ what is obtained with .44 magnum load data. A bit "iffy" even in the Ruger Blackhawk, IMO...and should be approached with all due caution.

Pressure and cylinder wall thickness isn't the only concern. Topstrap stretch makes for excess headspace...and there ain't a lot of wiggle room for headspace with magnum pressures...which are above proof-level with the Ruger Only .45 Colt data. The topstrap simply isn't as heavy on the New Vaqueros. They might stand up to a little of that foolishness...but not much.

I might even tell our new friend about the New Vaquero frame that I sprung and had to straighten in a vise...after firing one round...one round...of what I later found to be a Buffalo Bore 300-grain round. One round did the damage. A cylinder full would have likely taken it beyond repair.

I might tell him that me and Ruger single-actions go back a long ways...plumb back to 1960, when I got my first handgun in the form of a medium framed .357 Blackhawk. (Sure wish I had that one back.)...or about the two Super Blackhawks that I stretched the frames on with handloads so badly...that even Ruger couldn't repair one of'em...and strongly advised me to sharply curtail the use of the other one, and "No more heavy handloads."

I might tell him about the 2 Blackhawks and the Super Blackhawk that I've seen blown up at the hands of idiots who thought they could judge pressure by the way the primer looks...even though there are people who insist that Blackhawks can't be blown up.


I won't tell him, though. :)

[AgentOrange]

do you have pictures of the one your had to fix in the vise?
id like to see that one.

i never said that ANY of these guns couldnt be blown up. my whole point is that the new model ruger vaquero can handle much more than people give it credit for. of course any gun can be blown up by stuffing the cases, or by uneducated knottheads that,like you mentioned think they can "judge pressure" by something like looking the primers over. what i said is that ruger themselves told me that the new model vaquero was designed to withstand without damage any factory ammunitions pressures, up to +P+ pressures. i never said you could go out and stoke them up to s&w 500 levels and expect your gun not to grenade,taking your hand with it.

now this evening i called a friend of mine over who also owns a 45lc new model vaquero in blue. i explained the discussion to him, and we decided to give it a test. so we went out to the shop and threw some loads together with 230gr sierra hollowpoints that were stoked up.. we went out back (i am all of 2 minutes from my own 4mi by 5 mi high desert shooting range) and both shot 6 rounds thru our guns (mine being a 5 1/2" stainless) and while the cases were hard to remove from the cylinder, the guns both held up with no problems, no stretching, no problems whatsoever.

now, as i said, im not disputing the fact that you can blow them up,you can blow any gun up, im disputing the fact that most things you read online that people post say that you shouldnt run anything but cowboy loads thru the new model vaquero, and thats just not the truth. the truth is according to ruger that you can shoot anything and everything thru the new model vaquero up to +P+ pressures. there are alot of variables no matter which way you look at it. ive been reloading 35+ years ,was a gun dealer and gunsmith for over 17 years, and ive seen my share of KB's in about every type of gun, including blackhawks,super blackhawks, and even old model vaqueros. all im saying is i would much rather trust what RUGER, the firearms manufacture says rather than someones internet forums post. at least that way if omething did happen to go wrong, the gun blew up,etc they would be liable for any problems. thats why whe i do speak to someone like that i take names,times,etc to fall back on

the way i see it is people can believe what they want, ill stick with what not 1 but 2 people at the manufacture tell me.

[1911Tuner]

my whole point is that the new model ruger vaquero can handle much more than people give it credit for.

Not arguin' that. I know they're stronger than one might suspect. I also know enough about gun design and metllurgy to recognize that the New Vaquero is for all practical purposes, the same dimensions as the 1873 Colt...which isn't proofed for anything stiffer than factory standard .45 Colt ammunition.

Neither is the New Vaquero. SAAMI spec .45 Colt ammunition is in the neighborhood of 15,000 CUP. The guns are proofed at 25% higher than standard...which places it at somewhere around 19,500 CUP...or about 21,000 PSI. The "Ruger Only" data is well above that. Some of it hits 28,000 PSI or more.

The "Ruger Only" data in loading manuals is meant for Blackhawks, and the larger original Vaqueros...which were essentially just Blackhawks with Cowboy Bob sights. The Blackhawks will take it. The New Vaqueros and the Colts and the Cimarrons and USFA clones won't.


If you go feedin' a New Vaquero .45 a steady diet of that stuff, you're gonna break it in short order...and even if you don't break it...you'll sure as hell bend it. Ask me how I know...

[AgentOrange]

i do agree with you there. i would imagine that if you fired only the stout stuff, you would eventually end up with a twisted paperweight. the loads we were shooting yesterday if you go by the book were around 30,000 cup. i wouldnt want to shoot them on a daily basis. generally what i do is load up lower pressure stuff to practice with, and then if im wearing it out hunting, ill slip the stouter stuff in.

[Matt-J2]

Who said only 'cowboy' loads?

So far as I've always heard, it's been standard pressure only stuff. Which is not synonymous with cowboy loads. Also note that there is no standard at all for +P+. I didn't even know anybody made .45 Colt ammo in +P+.

Anyhow, for what it's worth(gold, IMO), Buffalo Bore specifically states that it's .45 Colt +P ammo is NOT for the New Vaqueros.

[1911Tuner]

Anyhow, for what it's worth(gold, IMO), Buffalo Bore specifically states that it's .45 Colt +P ammo is NOT for the New Vaqueros.

From someone who has been shooting...and greatly enjoying...a pair of New Vaqueros with 9 grains of Unique and 250-grain cast bullets, I can state flatly that anything much over that level in these light, medium-framed revolvers wouldn't be very enjoyable, to say the least. For the biggest majority of my shootng, I drop that charge a half-grain. I can shoot more ammo in a session, and the gun doesn't get beat up as much.

With 9 grains, my chronograph insists that the fat boolit is clocking a tick over 900 fps from the 4 and 5/8ths inch barrels. From 5.5-inch revolvers, a thousand fps wouldn't be too far out of reach. If I had need or a desire for more whoomp from the .45 Colt cartridge...my old, tired wrists would demand the heavier Blackhawk or an original Vaquero.

Increasing velocity serves mainly to flatten trajectory. If you can't deck your hog at 25-50 yards with 250/950...you probably can't do it with 250/1250 either.

[AgentOrange]

i have to agree with you. anything much over 900 in the NMV is pretty much overkill for everyday plinking. thats why as i said before, what i do is load up the lighter ooads for plinkin', and throw the heavier ones in if im going to be prowling around in the woods.

matt-
as far as the cowboy load comments, just do a little reading and research on the issue online, youll soon see what im talking about.

[1911Tuner]

as far as the cowboy load comments, just do a little reading and research on the issue online, youll soon see what im talking about.

"Cowboy" loads aren't a secret. We have an active CAS league at the range that I belong to, and while it's a lot of fun to watch'em...you can shoot the ammo and dang near run out and catch the bullet before it hits the target.

Agent...In all good conscience, I have to maintain that the New Vaqueros are proofed for SAAMI standard .45 Colt ammo. Ruger has always had a rep for marketing brute strong single action revolvers...but that rep was made with the New Model Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, and the original large-framed Vaqueros. I would venture a guess that the New Vaqueros are a bit stronger than the Colts and Italian clones...but not by a lot. They still have that light topstrap...and that's where a lot of the trouble comes from. John Linebaugh warned about the stretching that occurs there, and what the end result is. I'll try to find the article and do a cut/paste.


With the NV that I inadvertently fired a Buffalo Bore load in...the grip frame was sprung, and the headspace increased by .001 inch...with only one round. (I always measure and record the headspace in any new or used gun that I buy before I touch off the first shot.)

If you want a heavy caliber revolver for woods knockin' I suggest a Blackhawk or an old, heavy Vaquero.
If you want to push the envelope with a single action, with the least chance of disaster...I recommend the .41 Magnum Blackhawk, which is a bit stronger than the Super Blackhawk due to the thicker cylinder walls.

[AgentOrange]

personally, in all of my years reloading, while i do understand that some guys have to do it, i never could get into pushing the envelope so to speak. i like to k now what my guns can handle, but i ve always preferred finding a nice accurate mid range load and stickin with it.

ill tell you, seeing as were on the subject of ruger pistols, i got a great deal awhile back. our local grocery store had a handwritten ad on the bulletin board outside. this guy had one of the heritage arms 22/22 mags for sale new in the box with extras for 140 bucks, so i thought id give him a call and go check it out. when i got there he went to pull it out, and pulled out a brand new black pistol box and put it next to the gn on the table. well, i thought the box went with the 22, so i went to open it up, and inside was a nice pre-warning (i think rugers site said 1975) 4 5/8" ruger new model blackhawk 357. well, of course i was instantly more interested in the ruger than the 22, so i asked him if it was for sale.he said yes, and that it had some exras with it, for $350 bucks. premo shape i might add with the exception of the usual finish wear thru on the aluminum parts.needless to say, i couldnt get the money out of my pocket fast enough ( even though i am no longer an active dealer, i still have my FFL...lol). so i pay for the gun, and the guy opens this cabinet up in his shop and starts pulling stuff out.

for $350 bucks i got the following
1.the pistol of course which is a pre-warning ruger blackhawk 357 magnum 4 5/8"

2. a cowboy (hollywood style) holster and belt ( nice holster rig, but it doesnt fit me as it is for someone thats like a 32-34 waist)

3. 2 sets of RCBS reloading dies with shell holders,one for 38 special and one for 357 magnum ( i guess he didnt realize you can reload both with one set of dies)

4. over 500 rounds (FIVE HUNDRED ROUNDS) of 357 magnum ammunition,most of it new winchester factory hollowpoints and soft nose

5. 450 rounds ( FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY ROUNDS) of 38 special ammo ,most of it factory winchester FMJ and wads

6. 3 new boxs of speer 110gr hollowpoint bullets,unopened,2 new boxes of 148gr wadcutters.

7. 200 rounds of new 38 special brass

8. 50 rounds of new nickel plated 357 magnum brass.

9. a new plastic pistol box.

the ammo by itself adds up darn near to what i paid for the whole
package....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/johnsguns/ruger.jpg


well, as you can probably imagine, in 17 years of having a gunshop, i owned alot of 357 magnums.i took this gun out and shot it behind my place right after i bought it, and i have to say, this gun is probably the most accurate 357 magnum ive ever owned. at 20 yards, it hit point of aim with a variety of 357 loads and had no problems shooting a 2 1/2" to 3" group freehand. of course the 38s wouldnt shoot as well , but they were still very accurate. needless to say for a 357 magnum, i was pretty darn impressed.

the picture is from right after i bought it.since then, i bought a new ejector rod housing ( the other one had a shiny aluminum holster end on it ).

i am trying to decide though what to do.i bought the gun as a shooter, and while it doesnt have alot of wear on the finish, i like my guns to look nice so i was going tobuy a new grip frame for it, but i found out that ruger no longer produces the blackhawk aluminum grip frame.i could go with a blued steel one or a brass one , or i can send the gun ba ck to ruger and for $100 they will refinish it factory new.decisions decisions!

opinions?

[1911Tuner]

If it was mine, I wouldn't touch it. I never refinish. Guns that have the telltale bruises from honest use are much more appealing to me than unsoiled doves and pampered safe queens that too often serve as conversation pieces at Saturday afternoon cookouts and Super Bowl Sunday.

That Blackhawk is a working gun, by design and intent. It should look like a working gun.

I recently aquired a 4 and 5/8ths .41and a New Model Super Blackhawk, also the short barrelled model...and I'm not the least bit careful with the finish on either one. No deliberate abuse...but no kid gloves, either.

Just MHO.

[AgentOrange]

yea, ill probably leave it just as it is. it doesnt look bad now, and as you said, there workhorses, and thats what i got it for is to use.