Performance of Lapua Scenar bullets on game?


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 25, 2009, 03:48 PM
Any experience? Any anecdotes? Any armchair theorizing?

Specifically, with respect to whitetails/blacktails/mulies/small hogs/goats/sheep/antelope-sized game, what do you think about each of the following, as far as the air-pocket-tipped scenar being an adequate or good bullets for this use on such game from a .260 remington with an 18" bbl:

1. 6.5mm 100 scenar, neck shot or clean vitals shot?
2. 6.5mm 100 scenar, vitals shot, breaking ribs only?
3. 6.5mm 100 scenar, vitals shot, breaking shoulder blade or thick bone upon entry?

4. 6.5mm 108 scenar, neck shot or clean vitals shot?
5. 6.5mm 108 scenar, vitals shot, breaking ribs only?
6. 6.5mm 108 scenar, vitals shot, breaking shoulder blade or thick bone upon entry?

7. 6.5mm 123 scenar, neck shot or clean vitals shot?
8. 6.5mm 123 scenar, vitals shot, breaking ribs only?
9. 6.5mm 123 scenar, vitals shot, breaking shoulder blade or thick bone upon entry?

10. 6.5mm 139 scenar, neck shot or clean vitals shot?
11. 6.5mm 139 scenar, vitals shot, breaking ribs only?
12. 6.5mm 139 scenar, vitals shot, breaking shoulder blade or thick bone upon entry?

If you could, please address each of the 12, with an answer of POOR, POOR-FAIR, FAIR, FAIR-GOOD, GOOD, GOOD-EXCELLENT, or EXCELLENT performance being likely, in your opinion. I do NOT like to track! Thanks.

Contemplating trying the 108s or 123s on whitetails and small hogs mainly, and taking neck shots where presented under 100 yards, and vitals shots past that out to 300+. If you were gonna try this, would you run with the 108s or 123s?

http://www.lapua.com/information/products/components/

Seems like with the air pocket, they're gonna be really explosive, which is great for varmints, but what about larger but thin-skinned game - are they gonna penetrate, retain weight, & expand enough?

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interlock
January 25, 2009, 08:59 PM
Looking at the scenars design and the deep hollow point i thend to agree that the expansion would be very fast when the lighter bullet is pushed fast. I think that with a 139 gr heavier bullet pushed at the more moderate velocities that will be produced by your 18 inch barrel the scenar would work pretty well. I would be really interested to see what the results of some expansion tests are. The heavier bullets will have a better sectional density so should penetrate deeper. at a more steady velocity they should not fragment and so will conversley penetrate even better than a lighter one.

i remember reading that a vld bullet designed for target use was now being marketed for use on game.

interlock

gvnwst
January 25, 2009, 09:49 PM
Well, this is not exactly what you want, but only in .308" diameters:
http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3907739&postcount=235
http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3908342&postcount=241

Seems to me to work pretty well....

Personally (with no experiance of my own, but i have talked to a bunch of people who have) i would be fine with pretty much all of the above 12, with concerns around numbers 3 and 6.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 26, 2009, 10:28 AM
Thanks guys. The same question can be asked of the Sierra Matchking which has a similar construction. The 6.5s are offered in 107, 120, 123, 140, and 142 in the Match King.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 26, 2009, 12:55 PM
gvnst, that looks like pretty darned good performance. :eek:

I think I'm gonna work up two loads for the new .260: For varmints and small deer, the 95 gr Hornady V-Max, pushed to around 2950 fps (already have a box of these), and for everything else - all-purpose target shooting & medium game hunting, the 123 gr lapua scenar, pushed to around 2750 fps. These will be moderate+/under max loads.

Gonna try IMR 4831 first with the 123s, and try IMR 4320 first with the 95s. Anything else you recommend?

Here's a few links:

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.260remington.html

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=260%20Remington&Weight=All&type=Rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.clcweb.net/Loading/safeload/data/260_Remington/260_remington.htm

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bullets&brandID=1&displayAll=1

http://www.lapua.com/information/products/components/

gvnwst
January 26, 2009, 01:20 PM
i remember reading that a vld bullet designed for target use was now being marketed for use on game.


I think that is the Berger line, they said on their site something like that. On that note (not trying to hijack here Dr. Tad, sorry if i do) has anyone tried the bergers on game?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 26, 2009, 02:23 PM
Here are some threads I found on using Scenars, Sierra MKs, and Berger VLDs on game:

http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14393

http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6402

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-214417.html

http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2356

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2573475/page/1

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=478607

https://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231994

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199393

As you can see, it's an oft-asked question.

The comments on the Sierra match king are pretty consistent that it's a no-go due to it often acting as an FMJ bullet, tunneling right through with no expansion, even though it does sometimes expand or tumble and work well.

~z
January 26, 2009, 02:26 PM
I have not used the Scenars but have used Berger and SMKs quite effectively on deer size critters. Remember, these are not designed as “huntin bullets” these are target bullets. At the comparatively short distances you are talking about I believe you would be better served with a “huntin bullet”; something with controlled expansion. The target bullets seem (in my experience) to work well at lower impact velocities (associated with longer ranges). If you will be hunting inside 4-500yds, there are PLENTY of quality bullets.

~z

Big Bill
January 26, 2009, 10:48 PM
gvnwst - where did those Jack Rabbits come from in your first post?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 27, 2009, 03:21 AM
Hornady A-Max is another target bullet in the same category - initial research tends to suggest that the A-max performance on game is good / superior to the Sierra MK. The A-Max 120 has a BC of .465 and is much cheaper than Berger, Lapua, or Sierra.

interlock
January 27, 2009, 07:18 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/BobbyTomek/020berger-text-LOWREZ.jpg


this picture showing the fragmented bullet would be a worry for me. It is clearly apparent that the hunting bullets are far better than the vld for hunting. I (personally) think that a bullet that fragments or sheds a jacket as a failiure. However, it would work - if delivered at more moderate velocities as Dr tad is looking at.

I do not agree with the use of a vmax bullet on small deer. maybe a bullet with similar characteristics and poi could be found for use on smaller deer. Or just use the same bullet as for big deer. Then when you are zeroed, you can dial in the required difference for the varminting bullet and return the scope to the other settings when returning to deer hunting. it is no loss using a bigger bullet for smaller species. the bullet will still expand at a similar rate whether it is going through 10 inches or 3 feet of deer. there is no varying degrees of dead.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 27, 2009, 10:22 AM
Well I would use neck shots ONLY for the V-Max. Seems like it would work fantastically in that limited use, but I could be wrong. In fact, that fragmented Berger would be ideal for a neck shot, but not a vitals shot. So it all just depends on shot selection/method of hunting, I guess. Thanks for the excellent info, interlock!

gvnwst
February 3, 2009, 04:31 PM
gvnwst - where did those Jack Rabbits come from in your first post?


I don't know what "jack rabbits" are, but if you mean the links, a old thread here....

jerkface11
February 4, 2009, 02:06 AM
What there aren't enough hunting bullets in .284 diameter for you?

interlock
February 4, 2009, 03:46 AM
i am using sierra 120gr prohunter in 7mm. it is a good bullet.

cliffy
February 4, 2009, 03:59 AM
Lapua Jackets are thin and weak, perfect for target shooting. As a HUNTING bullet, I find them too fragile. Nosler Partition jackets are stiff and sturdy, as are Swift Scirocco II jackets. Target fare is not Hunting fare. Crimping a jacket tells the story regarding hunting suitability, so crimp then pull the bullet and look at the jacket. Some jackets are difficult to crush; these are hunting bullets! cliffy

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 10, 2009, 02:02 PM
If you guys haven't seen this, it's worth looking at - many bullet reviews:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/bullet_review.asp

Ecoleman24
December 7, 2009, 12:21 AM
My father is a hunter and has been so for many years. I was trying to chose something for him for the holidays and the information in this post assisted me greatly. Thanks to all.


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