[Bigjake]

Alright. I'll first state that extent of my higher power rifle experience ends with the 22-250 rnd. i've shot larger, but with no real "experience" with anything larger. i am looking to get a bigger gun, but i'm unsure what to go with. i think i have it narrowed down to 30-30, 30-06, or .308. what are the diferences between these rnds? which one is biggest, which is good for what, that sort of thing. any help you guys could offer on this perdicament would be great, thanks! :cool:

[Jaywalker]

Wow, an open-ended question like that, and I have it all to myself. That'll end quickly.

The 30-30 is a "deer rifle," and works well for that. It's usually found in lever action rifles, and is effective and reasonably accurate. (Deer-sized game to 175-200 yards. Accuracy in the two inches at 100 yards realm.) People who buy them aren't normally looking for tack-drivers, though, and aren't interested in flat-shooting, high velocity, long-range rifles. It's been a deer in the woods cartridge for 100 years, and serves that purpose well.

The 30-06 is a long step up, in cartrige range, potentially accuracy, recoil, muzzle blast, and game-getting effectiveness. IIRC, it's the most-sold rifle caliber. It used to be the standard "one rifle" that you could use for varmints, deer, and elk, though it's become common recently to read that it's underpowered for big mammals . (I guess they've started growing armor that they didn't have for the last 100 years.)

The .308 is a half-step (100 feet per second or so) back from the 30-06, except possibly in accuracy and cost. It tends to be more used when targets in 30 calibers are to be considered. Large mammals wouldn't be able to tell the difference. We can tell the difference, though, when we look for cheaper ammo to shoot. There's a lot of surplus .308 around, and not so much 30-06 anymore.

Jaywalker

[Mike Irwin]

All three are .30 calibers, meaning that they all shoot bullets nominally of .308 caliber.

That said, however, they're not all equal.

The .30-30 is traditionally a lever action cartridge, Winchester 94, Marlin whatever, and normally comes only with flat or round nosed bullets because of the tubular magazines found on most lever actions.

It's also the least powerful of the three, having the smallest case capacity and being chambered in lever actions, which are traditionally not as strong as bolt action designs.

The .30-30 is good for shots out to about 150 yards or so on whitetailed deer to black bear sized game. Anything over that and you're beginning to push its limitations.

The .308 and the .30-06 are fairly close balistically. The .30-06 can handle heavier bullets better, up to 250-gr. in some specialized loadings.

In the most common loadings, though, the .308 and .30-06 are virtual twins. Both will take elk sized game easily.

The .30-06's larger case capacity can give it a ballistic edge using slow powders for some types of hunting.

The biggest difference between the two is that the .308's case is a half-inch shorter than the .30-06, meaning that you can get it in rifles with actions that are shorter and a bit lighter and compact.

[Bigjake]

wow, i knew i could count on you guys for sound advice! thanks!

i think i've written off the 30-30 for the moment, want that little extra giddy-up that the other 2 seem to pack. what would ya'll recomend that won't hurt the pocket book too much for .308? i'm more into a bolt action, but i'm open to anything. i like the look of an m-14, but price seems high.

[Jaywalker]

Bigjake,

There aren't any really bad choices in a bolt .308., if you stay with the big names, and all are around the same prices. Browning A-Bolt II, Remington 700 and 7, Winchester/USRAC 70, Savage, Ruger 77. The CZ 550 is well thought of, and is relatively inexpensive to buy. Sako is good, but more expensive. There are others, too.

Since there aren't any really bad choices in these brands, you'd be well advised to just look at them each in a store and try thowing them up to your shoulder a few times. I thought a CZ would be ideal, until I tried one on. The stock was much too long for me and would have cost money to have re-sized. Some of them you just like more than others, so don't overlook that component. Personally, I think that's more important than any technical discussion of advantages and disadvantages, but YMMV.

I'm treading on thin ice here, but if you're new to heavier caliber rifle shooting, I'd suggest matching weight with caliber in order to minimize recoil discomfort. I own a six-pound .270, and as much as I like the rifle, from time to time I admit that that was a mistake. Shooting it off a bench is uncomfortable.

Jaywalker

[Brian Williams]

While you are at it look at the 7mm-08, a 308 necked down .082" to .284 or 7mm. Also look at the Savage mod 10, cheap but fairly accurate.

I really like my Win Compact Classic in 7mm-08.

[Bigjake]

jaywalker-

i'm very partial to the winchester mod 70, thats what my 250 is in. i plan on checking one of those out eventualy. i saw some sort of m70 variant chambered for .375 h&h that was sweet, but a liiiiitle bit much gun for targets and varmits. how about that CZ? was it just the feel? i don't really have any foriegn (sp) guns aside from my beretta, and i only picked that up after shooting it. hows the quality? action feel nice? those are big issues for me. while not made of money, i'll be holding out for the better weapon. i plan to make a trip down to our semi local gun store next weekend, maybe i will luck out and they will have one.


perfessr-
never shot 7mm, but heard of it. i'm assuming the 7mm-08 is a wildcat rnd?? if so, i'd really rather steer clear of those, ammo availability is a big factor in this purchase.

[dbshabo]

I just bought a Savage 10FP-LE2B in .308. I bought some Aussie '70's surplus from the Sportsmans Guide to do the break-in thing. I put a Leupold VXIII 4.5-14x50mm M1 Long Range Tactical scope on it with Badger rings and a Ken Farrell base. I also added a Harris bipod. Outta the box with the surplus ammo it was printing MOA at 200 yds once I got the scope tweaked in.

The new AccuTrigger is SWEET. I'm gonna set it about 1/2 pound lighter and this rig is good to go. This particular model comes with a McMillan A2 tactical stock. For the $$ I don't think you can do better. I paid $718.00 before tax. A Remmy 700 will cost you that without the McMillan stock. And there is no comparison as far as the triggers are concerned. I also seriously considerd the CZ Varmint Laminated. It lacks a recoil lug and free floated barrel which the Savage comes with. The CZ is ~ $150 cheaper however. I had a hard time finding anyone with an opinion on the CZ, good or bad. Plus the CZ has a proprietary rail system that severely limits your base and ring choices.

Can't wait to put some match grade ammo thru this thing. I think this rig and I are gonna become good bud's.

Shabo

[Mike Irwin]

No, the 7mm-08 is a factory round, has been for about 15 years now, I think.

Good ballistics, recoil isn't too heavy.

[Brian Williams]

Twas a wildcat but I find plenty at Wally world and other well known gun establishments, cause it is a great caliber for sillouette shooting.

It is a commercially loaded round and there are lots of reloading parts to roll your own.

[Art Eatman]

My 7mm-08 is in a rifle of total weight of 6-1/4 pounds. Dunno why, but the recoil at the bench rest is not at all onerous. The factory load is a 140-grain bullet at about 2,900, which compares quite fabvorably to the 150-grain bullets of the .308 and '06.

But, if you don't reload, the .308 is the best way to go for ammo cost for extended plinking and practice.

Art

[Bigjake]

didn't know that about the 7mm-08. i picked up a 20 rnd box or remington 7mm and another of .308 at a garage sale for 1$ a pop, figured even if i never got the gun, you can't beat them prices! 7mm-08 sounds like a nasty rnd for whacking coyotes.


dbshabo - sounds like a sweet setup. my cousin bought a savage in .308 a while back, but then when and got maried so i have yet to shoot it. sounds similar to yours.

But, if you don't reload, the .308 is the best way to go for ammo cost for extended plinking and practice.

art said it. thats my main draw to the rnd. i like to shoot as much as i can, but it aint cheap much past .22 .

[Jaywalker]

Caliber questions aside, if I were comfortable with the M70, I'd stay with it, since I'd be accustomed to the stock and the location of the safety.

Seeing a deer (or other) to shoot at is stress, and under stress, I'd look for the safety lever where it's always been on my other rifles. (Speaks a man who has attempted to take off the non-existent "tang safety" of my Winchester Super-X1 thinking it was my Ruger M77 or my Beretta 686. It's not there, of course, it's at the front of the trigger guard. I wached a big buck bound away fumbling for it, though, and I didn't even have to clean buckshot residue out of the barrel.)

Jaywalker

[cookie]

As others have stated, if you're comfortable with the Model 70, stick with it. The new CRPF model is supposed to be (close to) a return to the touted Pre-64 design, and would probably make a very nice choice.

[Jaywalker]

Bigjake,

Sorry, I just realized I ignored your question.

No, my CZ 550 issue wasn't just the stock length, but that was most of it. Around here, the only place I know to have the stock cut and a recoil pad installed costs $140, so that is a significant issue, and reduces the advantage of the rifle's cheaper cost. It would be a lot cheaper to fix a heavy trigger than a stock length problem.

In addition to that, it was a bit heavy, heavier than the catalog indicated. It's advertised as 7.3 - 7.5 pounds, but I weighed it at the store at 8 pounds 3 ounces, I think (I posted a bunch of actual weights recently).

Since there are others that fit me so much better, I just kind of kissed it off. It's not bad, it's just that I'd be buying into mandatory alterations, and life's too short to muck with disadvantages just to get a Mauser 98 action. YMMV.

Jaywalker

[Bigjake]

ah, that would make sense then. i'm still going to have a look see around to see if anybody within an hour carries em though, i'm curious. CZ seems to be comming out with more and more nice stuff, so i'm going to at least look and try to be open minded .. (yeah right, its about certain i'll get a winchester, but its worth the thought) thanks again ya'll, i appriciate it.

[RandyB]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2e.rifle_cartridges.htm

Decent web site on the calibers and what they can and can't do.

I personally own a .308, but if I had it to do over again I'd opt for the '06. I originally picked the .308 for the cheaper cost of ammunition, but would rather have had a better choice of ammo.