300 Wby Vs 30-378 Wby...differences justified by the cost??


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saturno_v
January 26, 2009, 12:19 PM
From the own Weatherby web site, the loads for the 2 cartridges, with the same bullet weight, are within 200-500 ft/lb of muzzle energy of difference (both over 4000 ft/lb), depending on bullet type

Trajectory at 500 yards (for 200 yards zero) is not significantly different either, within 1-4 inches max depending on load.

Retained energy at the same 500 yards is within 200-300 ft/lb of difference (both in the 2000 ft/lb range or more)

I did check on the MidwayUSA web site and a box of 300 Wby can be had as little as $40 or so (around $70-75 for the Weatherby brand)

The 30-378 is $125 a box (made only by Weatherby)

I know, both are a reloading proposition, still.....

Rifles for the 30-378 are fewer and more expensive

My question is.....there is anything in practice that a 30-378 can do that the 300 can't?? Performance differences are justified by the jumping cost??
Is the 30-378 little more than a technical showcase, a bragging right for the brand??

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feets
January 26, 2009, 12:30 PM
The 30-378 is a good range penis.
It's hard enough justifying any of the 300 magnums.
I selected a Sendero 300 WinMag over 308 because I wanted a flatter trajectory at 800 yards and beyond.
This gun has never been hunting. It's a target rifle and that's all it'll ever do.

If you need more power than an 30-06 for hunting, step up to a mid-size bore like the 375.
If you're going to hit long range targets, you can do fine with a 308, 30-06, and 300WM.

Very few scenarios in the hunting and shooting world call for the various 30 caliber magnums. In most cases, it's lack of knowledge or wanting to be the biggest boy on the block. Recoil is usually impressive and keeps people from shooting often.

Reloading has cost me dearly too. The 300 WM takes nearly 50% more powder than the 308. The 1800+ rounds I've put through my 300 would have bought me 2900+ rounds of 308 when you consider the cost of powder, brass, and factory loads fired (not too many).

MMCSRET
January 26, 2009, 06:08 PM
When the 30-378 first was standardized and in production several people started playing and found that full potential was realized when a fluted, 34" heavy barrel was installed. Food for thought!!!!!

saturno_v
January 26, 2009, 06:12 PM
34"????????????????????? :what::what::eek::eek:

What kind of speed you can get and such antenna pole??

gvnwst
January 26, 2009, 06:18 PM
What do y9ou want to do with the rifle? If you NEED the extra range and power, (pretty much the only use for such a large 30 is a match rifle, where the 34" bbl wouldn't matter) for what you want to use it for? If not, i would stick with the win mag, it will do anything you will need. If not, the .338 WM....

tube_ee
January 26, 2009, 06:57 PM
You need a bigger gun, not a faster .30 caliber.

Move up to the .35s, or better yet, (for ammo availability if nothing else), the .375 H&H.

I mean, really... is there anything that one would do with a rifle that couldn't be done well and ethically with a .22-250, a .30-06, and a .375 H&H?

I've also wondered about the .338s... is there enough difference there to justify them, or would one be better served by going to the .35s or beyond? In other words, is the .30 / .338 situation like the .270 / .30...if you've got one, you don't need the other?

Not that "need" is a relevant factor in rifle purchasing decisions...

--Shannon

jmr40
January 26, 2009, 07:03 PM
I agree with the others, 30-06 is about as big as you need in a 30 cal. With todays premium bullets a smaller caliber rifle will shoot about as flat as the magnums. While they may not have the energy of the 30 magnums, they kill just as dead.

redneck2
January 26, 2009, 08:01 PM
I have a friend that had a .30-378. You will not shoot it (more than once) without a muzzle brake. Projected barrel life is +/- 1,000 rounds. Muzzle blast was horrid.

The 30-378 is a good range penis.
Pretty much sums it up. If you want to impress your other nerd friends that talk about guns and ballistics but never really shoot, get one. If you're really actually going to use it, get a .308 or maybe better yet, a .260.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 26, 2009, 08:11 PM
The 30-378 is a good range penis.

You need a bigger gun, not a faster .30 caliber.

Move up to the .35s, or better yet, (for ammo availability if nothing else), the .375 H&H.

I mean, really... is there anything that one would do with a rifle that couldn't be done well and ethically with a .22-250, a .30-06, and a .375 H&H?

Yep and Yep. I'll add that if you're needing to go longer range, something in 6.5mm, 6.8mm, or 7mm will do it BETTER, cheaper and with less recoil and less barrel wear. If you need to go beyond a magnum 7mm for distance, it's time to step up to .338 lapua, .338 RUM, or .50 BMG, or .416 Barrett.

goldie
January 26, 2009, 08:58 PM
so does this mean there is no need for a 30 cal magnum ? i always thought the 300 weatherby was the best balanced 30 cal mag, & was quite popular?

pmeisel
January 26, 2009, 09:53 PM
What's wrong with bragging rights?

Any number of cartridges were created to be the biggest, or fastest, or most powerful, or some other superlative. It's part of our nature to experiment with advances.

Acera
January 26, 2009, 09:56 PM
Have you considered the .340 Weatherby? That is enough gun for just about anything.

redneck2
January 27, 2009, 06:44 AM
What's wrong with bragging rights?
Because we're the ones that are the victims of your incessant babbling. While you think you're impressing us with your knowledge and skill, your behavior is actually incredibly boorish. We always hope the glazed look on our eyes and the blood running from our deafened ears is a sign for you to quit, but it never seems to work.

Our only hope is that some new victim comes along and also shares in the joy of your sparkling conversation. It's their turn in the barrel, and we can hopefully silently sneak off to finally pursue the quiet and peace we so desperately desire.

If God were in fact merciful, he would have installed an "off" switch on some of the idiots I have endured. At least a little talking play doll can be silenced, and they typically have much more intelligent things to share.

Lloyd Smale
January 27, 2009, 07:22 AM
redneck i dont know if you have had another problem with this guy on another post but what he said is about true. I own may big bore handguns and rifles. I enjoy shooting them and even hunting with them. I sometimes get people that will critisize me for using say a 500 linebaugh to kill a deer but i enjoy it and im taking an animal cleanly so why not? If a guy says that buying a 300 mag is an overkill and you should use a 3006 then another guy can say a 3006 is to powerful and you should use a 308 then another says thats to much use a 3030. Bottom line is deer arent hard to kill and about any gun with someone behind it that can shoot it will take deer. Braggin rights? Not me. Most of the time i shoot its by myself and no ones there to brag too. But pemievel has a point. It is fun to master a gun that most people are to afraid to pull the trigger on. It gives me a sense of accomplishment and it takes alot of work to really master a big gun. What i hate more then a guy bragging he can do it is a guy that is afraid of it telling me that im nuts for doing it and saying it because he cant.

JimmAr
January 27, 2009, 08:02 AM
Why buy a weatherby cartridge? Why? Its so expensive.. and there are alternatives that are point of fact identical or similar ballistic wise that are 1/4 of the price brass ect..Wsm? Rum.. either way..

30-378 and 300wby,300 rum all barrel burners.. what a waste of good wholesome cash.. then again its yours not mine, I just expect people not to be foolish when you can get a hot loaded 300wm in almost the same ball park w/o the extra 15-22+gr's of powder down the same .308 dia hole..and it is because of these such things your barrel life is longer.. which also in the end is a money saver...

I can only imagine the people that own these cartridges have a Tim the tool man taylor nostalgic outlook on their firearms they show no potential value in killing power or accuracy that hasn't been offered already..

deacon8
January 27, 2009, 08:14 AM
Easy now. I have been hounded recently on a .50 BMG thread here recently. They were talking about using it for deer and elk...I argued that it was ridiculous for that. They argued, "why not." Based on their arguments, the 30-378 is actually on the small side for the deer species in North America. So come on fellas, why not?

TAB
January 27, 2009, 08:45 AM
I'd like to point out that Nosler also loads for most of the weatherby chamberings, including the 30-378.

Price is tipicaly a little more then the weatherby ammo. Norma is the only one currently making brass for them.

redneck2
January 27, 2009, 12:35 PM
redneck i dont know if you have had another problem with this guy on another post but what he said is about true
My reply was to
What's wrong with bragging rights?

You can buy and use whatever you want. Your dime, your dance. Just don't expect me to enjoy your endless stories of prowess and heroics.

I worked in a gun shop off and on for a couple of years. You'd see the same string of guys that had to have the latest, biggest, baddest whatever available. Then, each time they'd come in, it was the continual drone of "I do this", or "my gun can do that"

Six months later they'd trade it in, unfired. I suspect reality set in when they figured out that every pull of the trigger was pretty much equivalent to the kick from a mule. I've fired one of the older Weatherbys with the humpback stock. Smacks you in the jaw with every shot. Never much frequented bars as I could never see that as fun. Why would I pay for it?

Once you figure out that it takes the best part of a $20 bill to shoot a 5-shot group, the shine fades rather quickly. If you buy the horse, you've gotta feed it.

ctgmi
January 27, 2009, 12:44 PM
When the 30-378 first was standardized and in production several people started playing and found that full potential was realized when a fluted, 34" heavy barrel was installed. Food for thought!!!!!

Father inlaw had one and he also was finding out that the barrel needs to be at least 29" cartridge to produce the listed ballistics for this round. As stated above if the barrel lasts 1000 rounds you could count yourself lucky.

saturno_v
January 27, 2009, 01:57 PM
Six months later they'd trade it in, unfired. I suspect reality set in when they figured out that every pull of the trigger was pretty much equivalent to the kick from a mule. I've fired one of the older Weatherbys with the humpback stock. Smacks you in the jaw with every shot. Never much frequented bars as I could never see that as fun. Why would I pay for it?


I may add....if what you are looking for is just a recoil punch, with $79 get one of the short Mosin and fire it with no recoil pad...a mule kick on the cheap :evil: :p:D

An other cheap alternative is to fire 3" Brenneke Black magic out of your shotgun....:D

redneck2
January 27, 2009, 06:11 PM
I've shot enough Hornady SST's and Remington Copper Solids out of my 870 to know that pain hurts.

ChromeLibrarian
January 27, 2009, 06:26 PM
I currently own a 300WM. I used to own a 300Wby (sold it for economic reasons). The recoil of the 300WM is not bad to me. The recoil of a 300Wby is noticeably more than the 300WM. I can't imagine what the recoil of the 30-378 is like.

Do I, personally, think the expense is worth it?

No.

On the other hand, I can't see investing in a 300WBY over a 300WM. I can't think of anything in the continental US that would be too much for a 300WM, and it's overkill for quite a few things.

jester_s1
January 27, 2009, 07:50 PM
I just hate all the macho talk that convinces new shooters that they need a cannon to hunt with. There is a place for the 300 and 338 magnums- long shots on Elk and Caribou. Anything smaller and a .270 is on the upper end of the power spectrum as far as actual need goes.

p85
January 27, 2009, 08:50 PM
I own both the 30-378 and Remington model 7400 in 30-06. Why? The 30-06 will kill any game I intend to hunt. I own the 30-378 because it was my dads before he passed away. Fun to shoot, expensive to feed but, it was my dads.Wouldn't part with either one.

ChromeLibrarian
January 27, 2009, 08:51 PM
I own the 30-378 because it was my dads before he passed away.

As good a reason as any.

Strongbad
January 27, 2009, 09:31 PM
Man do I feel like the minority. I had a 30-378 and loved it. Only thing I didn't like was the muzzle brake. Just too much blast for me. As a result, I fixed it. I had it rebarreled to 338-378 and left the brake off.

I didn't get it for bragging rights. I got it because I wanted it. I don't need any more reason than that. Does it kick like hell? You bet. For me, mastering the recoil was part of the challenge. As for being the noisiest cannon at the range, unfortunately, yes it is. That's what they made earplugs for. Beyond that, I know what I'm putting the other shooters through, have respect for those folks, and try to be conscious of that at all times.

Yes, the ammo is expensive, but if you know that going into the deal, then it's something you're prepared for. If you can't afford to feed it, then go with something else. FWIW, handloading for them isn't all that bad, but "bad" is relative.

I don't know, I guess I'm just surprised by all of the negativity. Everything de-evolves into a "is it necessary" discussion these days. Who gives a crap. If we were only kept the cartridges that were necessary, we'd all be shooting 45-70's, 30-30's, 375 H&H's etc. If the gentlemen is interested in the two cartridges then good for him. To each his own. As to the original quesiton, saturno v, you've pretty much got it figured out. The 300 Wby is good, the 30/378 is just a hair better (speaking in performance terms). Then you've got the aforementioned tradeoffs. Anyway, sorry for the rant gentlemen. :(

pmeisel
January 27, 2009, 09:45 PM
If we were only kept the cartridges that were necessary, we'd all be shooting 45-70's, 30-30's, 375 H&H's etc.

Right. And we should save money on manufacturing automobiles by restricting models, only Dodge pickups and Studebaker larks allowed.

win71
January 27, 2009, 10:02 PM
300 Wby Vs 30-378 Wby...differences justified by the cost??
Out of those choices I'd stay with the 300 Wby.
Unless you start reloading I doubt most people would want to spend enough money to burn either barrel out. Off the bench the 300 is less than comfortable to shoot much and if the 30-378 is anything remotely close to the 300 RUM I shoot it will be a whole lot worse than uncomfortable.

jester_s1
January 27, 2009, 10:29 PM
I guess I'm just different than the recoil lovers. I see guns as filling a need. I look at the distance I need to shoot and find the tool that can do it the most efficiently. For any game smaller than elk, the .270 is effective at a greater distance than the vast majority of hunters are competent at.

rundm
January 27, 2009, 10:38 PM
I have one of the accumarks in the 30-378. It is expensive to feed but I do not shoot it that much. I reload my cases that I got for it some time back. Takes alot of powder to get it down range and muzzle blast with the brake on is unreal. Unfortunatly, shooting without the brake is something you do not want to do. Friend of mine did it once and would not shoot it again. It was kind of funny though because he was talking about there was nothing harder kicking then the guns he was used to. He lit it off and it about came out of his hands at the bench rest. I do not shoot more then 5 rounds at a time because the concussion from the blast will give you a headache pretty quick. Anyways, if it is what you want, don't let anybody talk you out of it. It is one of the most beautiful rifles out there besides maybe the lazor mark. RG

saturno_v
January 27, 2009, 11:11 PM
I see only the Lazzeroni cartridges reaching higher speed and energy in .30 cal
And actually their published ammo price is cheaper than the 30-378, but their rifles are quite more pricey than Weatherby...

Strongbad
January 28, 2009, 12:08 AM
[QUOI see only the Lazzeroni cartridges reaching higher speed and energy in .30 cal
And actually their published ammo price is cheaper than the 30-378, but their rifles are quite more pricey than Weatherby...TE][/QUOTE]

And the numbers are total crap because they're done out of a longer barrel than the Wby, and at a higher altitude. In short, you can make anything look good on paper, but in real life they don't stand up. :)

ShadyScott999
January 28, 2009, 12:19 AM
I shot pretty much every Wby from 270 -460 a few years back. I was about 35. I am 6'3 230 not recoil sensative at all...until. The first gun I ever shot in my life that made me say Holy %^$# over a bench was Wby 30-378. The 460 is just not reasonable for sholuder fire.

To give you an idea, I coinsidered a couple hundred 300 win mag and maybe 75-100 338's a fun day at the range.

But what the heck, get both. I would if I could.

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