Video game gun thread closed? Why?


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Golden Hound
January 27, 2009, 01:51 AM
If we can talk about guns in movies (as people do, all the time) then we should be able to talk about guns in video games. Maybe this is a generational thing but most people under 25 have spent just as much time playing video games as they have watching movies. It's a valid form of entertainment and it's also a powerful cultural force that can't be discounted. In fact it's been suggested that the number of "Evil Black Rifle" owners is strongly influenced by popular video games like Counter-Strike and Call Of Duty. When you take this into consideration there's no reason the thread should be closed - the closing of it was just as arbitrary as the banning of certain guns based on cosmetic features and not others, and just as illogical.

The reason for the thread being closed was given:

We discuss real firearms here. There are videogame forums where this would be on topic, it's not on topic here.

By this same token, threads about guns in literature should be closed (because they're not about "real" guns, just fake guns on a piece of paper) and threads about guns on film and TV should be closed (because they're not about "real" guns, just images of guns depicted on a screen.)

What is so horrible about talking about guns in video games that you really needed to lock that thread? Or was it that video games are not a "mature" enough thing to discuss, and you thought that it somehow reflected poorly on the forum to be talking about such a "childish" pursuit?

The forum is called "General Gun Discussions." General Gun Discussions. There's already a specific thread for handguns and a specific thread for rifles. And a specific thread for shotguns, and a specific thread for hunting and a specific thread for target shooting. Anything else that is related to guns would seem to fall under the "general" gun discussion category. That includes a thread about guns in video games.

The guns being discussed in that thread ARE, in fact, "real" guns and many of us have experience using all of them. Forbidding such a thread from existing is really over-the-top moderation.

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Maelstrom
January 27, 2009, 02:13 AM
The argument appears valid.

JimmAr
January 27, 2009, 09:47 AM
Theres not been a popular pc multiplayer online shooter with real time ballistics yet.. the last I remember of such a thing.. was the original delta force..

ITILT
January 27, 2009, 10:03 AM
" over-the-top moderation. "


I concur!!!

rbernie
January 27, 2009, 10:52 AM
Y'all know the drill - PM the moderators in question. It's not Thursday yet.

Golden Hound
January 27, 2009, 11:34 AM
Yet another form of needless self-censorship. This Technical Support forum exists for a reason, and I will use it to discuss what I believe should be a public matter and not an exchange between myself and one moderator.

I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the overzealous thread closings here but I am confident that some compromise can be reached, with a well-reasoned discussion, which is what I am trying to do here.

On the surface, this forum and online community of ours is about firearms. On a deeper level, it is about logic, reason and common sense. All of which are factors here. If we can't talk something out logically amongst ourselves, what hope do we have against the antis?

greenr18
January 27, 2009, 12:00 PM
as soon as it was locked i was upset because i was thinking about how movie gun threads arent locked as well...

geolemer
January 27, 2009, 12:26 PM
I don't know who picks the moderators many of them seem to know less about guns then the rest of us and many have no respect for free speech.

Justin
January 27, 2009, 01:17 PM
GH, why do you have such an obsession with posting threads about guns in fictional contexts?

I'll be quite frank with you:

That stuff bores any serious shooter to absolute tears. Why? Because people who are actually interested in shooting are out pulling triggers at a range.

They're practicing, competing, hunting, plinking and experimenting.

They aren't constantly sitting at home playing COD5 on the XBox 360 or obsessing over the firearms carried by Mark Wahlberg in Max Payne.

Movies, tv, video games, and books are all well and good, but frankly when I read your posts it seems quite clear to me that you have no interest in differentiating between what is important (actual range time) vs. what is superfluous (watching a movie and picking technical nits.)

If you really wish to discuss firearms in such a heavily entertainment-based context, perhaps you should seek out discussions on entertainment-related forums rather than trying to shoehorn discussions about fiction into a forum where the majority of the membership are interested in technical and real-world discussions.

Golden Hound
January 27, 2009, 01:37 PM
GH, why do you have such an obsession with posting threads about guns in fictional contexts?

I'll be quite frank with you:

That stuff bores any serious shooter to absolute tears. Why? Because people who are actually interested in shooting are out pulling triggers at a range.

They're practicing, competing, hunting, plinking and experimenting.

They aren't constantly sitting at home playing COD5 on the XBox 360 or obsessing over the firearms carried by Mark Wahlberg in Max Payne.


Can you list the number of threads that I have actually POSTED - i.e. started myself - that are about guns in fictional contexts? Trust me, they are far outweighed by my threads about guns in real contexts. I don't have an obsession with it - I don't know where you're getting that.

I don't think I have ever posted, or even posted IN, a thread about the guns in video games or in Max Payne. I've posted some things about historical firearms in historical movies, because I'm a history buff. (Those tend to be based on real events, so I wouldn't call it fictional at all. Such as "Defiance" - that movie was based on real events. Your characterization of it as "fictional" is completely out of line.)

I am as serious a shooter as the average person here. (Obviously there are those who are much more experienced than I, and I happily defer to them when it comes to technical matters.) But - unbelievably - I have a life outside of guns! I have other interests! Movies! Art! Literature! History! Music! Bodybuilding! I'm sure everyone else here has the same deal - we're not all just a bunch of robots who are programmed to only think about guns all the time and nothing else. So I try to incoroporate my other interests, sometimes, into discussions here on this board. Because I can't just cut my brain in half and say "this is the gun half, and this is the half for everything else." That's not how it works.

For the record I DO NOT PLAY A LOT OF VIDEO GAMES. I spend much more time doing other more productive things (although that doesn't mean I'm too pretentious to enjoy playing video games SOMETIMES.) The reason I objected to the closing of that thread is exactly what I've stated, several times: video games are important in introducing new shooters to our sport. Lots of younger people get interested in guns through the video games they play.

What is so wrong about acknowledging that and integrating it into our forum here?

Honestly your mentality here is the FUDD mentality, just in a different package.

As I said in the other thread: I can only speak for myself here but I 1. Bombard my Facebook account with pro-gun articles and news stories, which reach hundreds of people because I have more than 700 friends on Facebook, 2. send pro-RKBA letters to the editor of the local paper every month, 3. give money to the NRA and 4. write in to various other news outlets when I see an anti-gun story. That is a lot of pro-2A activism for a 22 year old (who also has a life outside of guns, believe it or not, including many other hobbies) so whatever else you want to say, you can't accuse ME of not being active enough. I am trying to reach YOUNG PEOPLE my own age to support our cause (which is the ONLY way it will survive.) And if this is going to happen, you can't avoid talking about movies and video games.

Golden Hound
January 27, 2009, 01:46 PM
That stuff bores any serious shooter to absolute tears. Why? Because people who are actually interested in shooting are out pulling triggers at a range.


And...if it was the summer and I wasn't attending my final year of college, I'd BE at the range. But, it's January, it's 14 degrees outside, I'm taking 5 classes and the range I go to is an hour away (and it's not open every day of the week during the winter.) I'm sorry I can't spend my days idly pulling triggers at the range, although I will when I have some time off.

Gunnerpalace
January 27, 2009, 02:24 PM
That stuff bores any serious shooter to absolute tears.

Does not bore me, I welcome a break every once and a while.

Caliban
January 27, 2009, 02:30 PM
Because people who are actually interested in shooting are out pulling triggers at a range.

this just seems silly. surely a lot of people here are like me, and read thr at work. going to the range instead of sitting at my desk is not an option.

guns in movies are just as fictional as guns in video games, if not more so.

Golden Hound
January 27, 2009, 02:50 PM
A big part of the new demographic getting into firearms ownership - possibly the majority of it - is highly influenced by PC and video games. The people who are denying the importance of these potential allies to our cause are the same kind of people who said that the television would never become popular, that the car would never become popular, that the computer would never become popular...hell, they were probably the same people who were saying that the GUN would never replace the bow and arrow. It's a mentality of narrowmindedness and lack of foresight, combined (I think) with a lot of pretentious disdain for the "young folks" and their dang-blasted video-game contraptions.

I think you'd have to be pretty blind to see how influential video games have become. I know a lot of people who've gotten guns (especially ARs and AKs) because they thought they were cool in this or that video game - that's one more person on our side, which we desperately need.

greenr18
January 27, 2009, 03:11 PM
Last time I checked Dirty Harry was a giant commercial for S&W M29s and McQ was a giant commercial for MAC10s... sales to the public... how many people own AR15s because they had them in the service or AKs because they couldn't take home one as a trophy, how many people have Garands because they have an interest in WW2 and grew up with war movies and stories told by relatives about the war... who cares where your interest in firearms comes from, saying one can't be a serious pro-gun enthusiast because they researched guns from a videogame or movie and then became interested in owning a particular firearm... seriously who cares so long as people are getting into the RKBAs and are being responsible and safe. I feel some generation based confusion and tension here... the older folks seem to think it's alright to be interested in a firearm if it's seen in a movie but take it less seriously if it was from a videogame... I really don't know why. Maybe it's because they are less experienced and in the know so to speak about videogames in general, maybe they fear it gives gun owners a bad name because of the "violent videogame debate" who knows, but last time I checked there was also a "violent movie debate" that was just as hot a topic as videogames at one time, but again so long as people understand safe handling and responsibility with guns i don't see the problem, in fact it seems like just another legit way to get people into shooting

Funderb
January 27, 2009, 03:15 PM
Well, I don't know about you guys, but no one makes me read threads about movies, they happen every so often, and for good reason, humor.

I also don't THR at the range, Justin, your point isn't nice, nor is it valid.

Justin
January 27, 2009, 03:25 PM
this just seems silly. surely a lot of people here are like me, and read thr at work. going to the range instead of sitting at my desk is not an option.

As am I. The point I was laboring to make is that THR is geared towards discussions based on actual experiences from our membership, rather than talking about whatever the latest video game/movie/book is.

I think you'd have to be pretty blind to see how influential video games have become. I know a lot of people who've gotten guns (especially ARs and AKs) because they thought they were cool in this or that video game - that's one more person on our side, which we desperately need.

Ok, first off, you can stop talking to me like I'm some grizzled old jerk sitting in a shack in the woods who barely approves of the concept of running water.

At one point in my life, I was an avid video game player with a specific interest in FPS's. I was evidently good enough that I was offered a spot with more than one clan. While I'm no longer an avid game player, I do keep touch with the topic by playing games occasionally* and skimming some of the more well known blogs that deal with tech and video game issues.

As someone who isn't the straw man you want him to be, I'm well aware of the fact that many Gen-X and Gen-Y shooters are coming to firearms ownership via the video game gateway.

But THR exists to move people beyond that gate. I think it's fantastic that a lot of new shooters are taking the leap from playing games to buying the actual thing, but we're not here to dwell on that. Once the new person has made that transition, they have much to learn about their new found civil right, including everything from ammo selection to basic field stripping and cleaning. At that point, continuing to talk about video games becomes more of a hindrance than a help.


*I don't have a current system, owing to the fact that I've been putting together my ideal setup for Multigun.

Justin
January 27, 2009, 03:28 PM
I also don't THR at the range, Justin, your point isn't nice, nor is it valid.

To reiterate my point, we're far more interested in firsthand experiential reports than we are in rehashing what Hollywood or other mass-media outlets want to tell us.

I don't know if I can put it any more simply than that. I find it more than a little bit sad that so many people here want to talk about guns, but seem to have no interest in actually learning about them through firsthand experience or from others who've been there and done that.

greenr18
January 27, 2009, 03:48 PM
Why can't we have varying topics here on THR? I don't see how we can't manage having a few entertainment based threads now and then, it doesn't hurt anybody

Art Eatman
January 27, 2009, 03:48 PM
1. The moderating here won't change in style.

2. Gun-game garbage will be closed.

3. If folks don't like that aspect of THR, they are very much free to find a website that caters to such.

As far as moderator knowledge, I don't claim to be the Great Guru. However, I've done the IPSC thing, I've handloaded for centerfire since 1950 and I've eaten a helluva lot of deer meat. Twenty-some years of gunshow tables, and a fair amount of minor gunsmithing.

And there are a bunch of moderators who know more than I do. I imagine there are a number of members who do, as well.

But we have a bunch of folks who are newbies to the world of real guns, and we cater to them.

Art

Justin
January 27, 2009, 04:19 PM
Why can't we have varying topics here on THR? I don't see how we can't manage having a few entertainment based threads now and then, it doesn't hurt anybody

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the occasional fun thread. However, if one gets left open, then the next time an off-topic entertainment thread is closed there are complaints of the mods being unfair.

JShirley
January 27, 2009, 04:26 PM
Asked. Answered.

John

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