[nachosgrande]

Been thinking about a BUG lately and was wondering which would you choose and why?

[skoro]

I've owned two Kel-Tecs; a PF-9 and a P-32. Both have been flawless in operation. They are what they are - cheap, lightweight, compact carry guns. Use them within their limitations and they'll serve well.

I haven't owned a Taurus, although friends and family have. They tend to be hot or cold in quality. Get a good one and you'll be pleased. Get a bad one and you'll forever curse Taurus. You won't have trouble finding Taurus bashers if you use the search feature.

[hadmanysons]

I had a P11 and sold it FOR a Taurus PT-111. I hated my keltec. It had a monster of a trigger pull, it barely fit in my hand which means it would almost fly out of my hand every shot and it would jam every 6 or 7 rounds.

My PT-111 is like trading a chevy cavalier for a lexus. Never had a problem, fits betters, blah blah blah. Better. HOWEVER, I have heard horror stories about Taurus customer service so I hope that I never have a problem (cause Taurus does have a lifetime warranty). I have heard great things about Kel-Tec customer service.

Hope that helps.

[Guitargod1985]

You know what's funny? Most people rave about how great the Kel-Tecs are and how crappy a Taurus product is, but my experience is just the opposite. I have owned both a Kel-Tec P-11 and a Taurus 605.

The Keltec P-11 was the most unreliable POS firearm I have ever encountered. That and the magazine sounded like a baby rattle when fully loaded. My ejector broke on the first box of Winchester White Box. I called Kel-Tec and received a replacement. After shooting several dozen more rounds (on the second range trip after replacement of ejector), the extractor broke. I ended up selling the damn thing at a tremendous (got <20% what I paid) loss.

The Taurus 605, on the other hand, was a dream come true. It weighs in at 26 oz, a little heavy for a snub, but certainly no heavier than a Ruger Sp101. With a good holster, you will barely even notice it's there. Then again, I was at this point accustomed to carrying an HK USPc. The weight helps soak up the recoil of full power .357 magnum loads quite well. I did find that it tended to shoot a bit low with lighter loads, but it was spot on with the 158 grainers that I used for carry.

[CoRoMo]

I don't have experience with the Taurus, but do with the P11. I carry it everyday/everywhere. It has been 100% reliable. Mine doesn't rattle like the above poster's did. Mine hasn't broke after many hundreds of rounds. I've heard great things about KT customer service too, so if mine ever has a hitch, I'm keeping it and letting them do their thang.

hth

[bikerdoc]

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/bikerdoc1948/IM000793-1.jpg

Dont know a thing about Kel-tec, but my 605 3inch has been fantastic

[thunder173]

Carry a Keltec P-11 every day,...almost,...and a P3AT when I can't carry the P-11. Have well over a thousand rounds through both. They aren't range guns, as they are meant for one purpose only. Cheap? Yes. Reliable? Mine have been. Have I had better? Yup. But if I ever do have to use it for it's intended purpose, where it's gonna be up close and personal,....I won't feel quite so put out handing it to the investigating officer as evidence afterwards,...and likely never see it again....as I would something of "better quality" and much higher cost. It goes bang,...and I actually like that awful trigger pull,....you have to INTEND to shoot it,...and under stress,...I doubt that awful trigger pull is going to matter much. I did get the 12 round mags for it,..and that pretty much eliminated the so called "baby rattle" effect,...that btw,...I have experieinced with several higher quality firearms that use double stack mags.

[prescobd]

I think it would depend on what you are backing up. If you are backing up a S&W 9mm (59 or 59 series) I would go with the P11 as the S&W magazines can be used in the P11.

Likewise, if you are backing up another .38/.357 revolver I would use the 605.

[nachosgrande]

Thanks guys, seems like I'm not going to get a unanimous decision. Does anyone know which will conceal better (thinking ankle holster)?

[littlelefty]

I would think that the flatness of the autoloader would generally conceal better. That statement is intentionally vague because it'll depend on your body build, holster type (I know, you said ankle carry), etc.

I also admit that my opinion is biased because I carry a P11 IWB when I don't carry the 1911.

My wife wants a small revolver though because she's more comfortable with them over autoloaders. That too may a factor for you.

How's that for a non-decision?:D

[danh427]

I can't comment on the P3AT, but do own a Taurus 605.

It has been very reliable and I enjoy the pistol. But as far as a bug, it is not exactly light! Around 25 ounces. I would be a bit more inclined to carry my 851 Ultra Lite at about 17 ounces for a bug. Not a 357, but still rated for 38 +P.

[orionengnr]

None of the above.

[GatorDoc]

I have had my P-11 for almost two years now; I normally carry a SigSauer P220R and had found myself considering not carrying in some situations do the size and difficulty concealing it under some circumstances, such as in beach attire, formal attire, etc. I decided a smaller gun is better than no gun so I went shopping and ended up with the P-11, mainly on the recommendation of a friend who is a Michigan State Trooper.

I have had zero reliability issues with MY P-11 since I bought it and find myself carrying it more and more often due to the size and comfort compared to the full size P220R. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my 220 and it’s still my pistol of choice, but I have to dress to carry it. With the P-11 in a Galco Stow-n-Go IWB Holster (http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=3239&GunID=315) I have found I can conceal it under just about anything. Even under a fitted polo shirt it tucks nicely in the small of my back with no printing whatsoever. The only minor issue with this is that when concealing it under a t-shirt or polo I feel the need to wear an undershirt to keep the gun from irritating my skin, as well as to minimize my oils and sweat attacking the finish of the gun. A very minor inconvenience and a small price to pay in my opinion.

It shoots surprisingly well out to 15 yards or so with accuracy dropping off significantly at longer ranges. I expected this when I bought it, with a 3" barrel and the price of the gun I am more than happy with how it shoots. I have put close to 1000 rounds through mine; the only malfunctions I have had were during the break in period while I was getting used to the gun. I have mainly shot various brands of target loads in different bullet weights, all with similar results. My carry load is Hornady 147gr TAP; I have put several boxes of this through the P-11 with no problems.

The trigger pull takes some getting used to, to say the least. It is VERY long and stiffer than I am used to; the DA pull of my P220 feels like SA compared to the P-11. A minor quibble and not something that will hinder using it in anger should the need arise, but annoying and difficult to get used to when practicing with it. I find that when I go to the range I have to fire the P-11 first. If I fire the P220 first I get used to it which causes me to anticipate the trigger pull on the P-11 and flinch sometimes until I get used to it.

I have the 10 round magazine and, like the previous posters mentioned, it does rattle when fully loaded. However, the sound is not noticeable to me with the magazine inserted unless I shake the gun vigorously. This makes the "problem" essentially a non-issue for me. The magazine that came with the gun is of surprisingly good quality (Mec-Gar) considering what I paid for the gun. It does come with only one, however, so if you carry a spare you will need to purchase an extra.

The fit and finish of the gun is acceptable for the price point. There are blemishes and cosmetic imperfections to be found on the slide, but nothing that hinders performance or reliability. The finish on the rear of the slide (where it contacts my back while carrying) is starting to wear off in a couple of spots and likes to rust if I do not pay close attention to it. It is relatively minor, but annoying that I have to PM it regularly solely for the purpose of keeping it rust-free. I would have it refinished, but for the price of the gun it just makes more sense to me to invest a little time and elbow grease rather than spend more money on it.

My biggest gripe with the gun is the chintzy plastic sights. Yes, plastic. It shoots just fine and is acceptably accurate with them, but I simply cannot get around the fact that they are plastic. The front is pressed into the slide and has proven to be secure thus far. The rear sight, however, sits in a dovetail and likes to scoot it's self over if I do not pay attention to where it is. Granted, a little dab of superglue holds it in place just fine, but it would be worth paying a few extra dollars to get something that you will not have to worry about from the factory.

Finally, it is quite a small pistol. The grip is fairly thick, due to the double stack magazine, but very short. This helps it conceal very well, but a guy with big hands would probably be uncomfortable holding it. I am by no means a big guy and I hang my pinky off the grip. I suspect a higher-capacity magazine with a grip extension would remedy this, but for me it is not enough of a problem to bother with. When I purchase an extra magazine I may get a high capacity just to experiment with this, but it will be far from then end or the world if that does not work out.

Bottom line: I am happy with my P-11 and do not regret the purchase at all. HOWEVER, if you can afford to spend a bit more I would certainly suggest looking into some other sub-compact pistols. At the time I purchased it the P-11 was all I could afford, but given other circumstances I would have rather spent a bit more and ended up with a pistol that I really liked, as opposed to one that was simply adequate.

For what its worth I intend to look into a Sig P239 to replace the P-11, but I am comfortable and confident carrying the P-11 until that happens, be it next year or five years from now.

[Duke of Doubt]

Neither. Keep looking.

[nachosgrande]

Thanks for all the help. Believe it or not, I've now shot both and still can't decide.

[chupacabrah]

I don't think you can go wrong with either.

The Kel-tec is going to be thinner and lighter.
Operation-wise, depends if you prefer semi-auto or revolver.
and lastly, I think they will both be reliable (regardless of the brand-haters on here), and they also both have lifetime warranty if purchased new.

It is a hard decision. I just recently picked up a P-11, though.

[MCgunner]

I have a P11 and a Taurus M85UL for my revolver. The P11 is my choice. It always works, very accurate, easy to get into action. The trigger is long, but smooth. Just takes some getting used to. It's a proper trigger for a pocket gun and anyone with any ability to shoot DA will do well with it unless they just don't want to. Didn't take me long at all to adapt to it.

The P11 is 14 ounces unloaded, carries up to 13 rounds of +P 9x19, carries a reload in a knife sheath on the belt, and is more compact and easier to pocket than any revolver bigger than a NAA mini. It makes a lot more sense for carry to me than a revolver, though I do get in a revolver mood from time to time.

I've had my P11 now for a dozen years and close to 12K rounds through it with no problems. It shoots to POA, 3.5" at 25 yards off a sand bag rest and can take down 6" plates post haste at that range off hand. Pretty amazing for a pocket auto. I think of it as my little square revolver that loads from the bottom. :D

Gotta add, that little M85 has a superb DA trigger, best on a J frame sized handgun I've ever tried. It's also very accurate and reliable. Just that for carry, the P11 is easier and makes more sense.

[CoRoMo]

I carry THE P11 everywhere/everyday. Highly recommend.
It is an awesome pistol and I plan to own another one.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/p11_01.jpg