[RippinSVT]

Ok fellas, I may be just a bit off my game today, but I was wondering, do the Lee Carbide die sets (9mm) come with a factory taper-crimp die? I ordered a set yesterday which contains 3 dies, a carbide resizing die, a bullet seating die, and a powder through expanding die. Now, I am pretty new to reloading, but are any of those a Lee code-word for a taper crimp die, or do I need to buy one separately. It seems to me that they would include them, since a taper crimp is apparently essential on 9mm's. Please excuse my naivety, I'm having a real brain-fart here. Thanks!

[RippinSVT]

Also, I plan to use Missouri Bullet Company's 125 LRN over 3.7gr's of Bulleye with a CCI primer. Does this sound like a nice light target load for my Sig?

[Blind Bat]

The three die sets do not contain the factory crimp die (aka FCD). The Lee "Deluxe" pistol die sets contain the additional Factory Crimp Die.

With the set you purchased, you will use the bullet seater die to apply a taper crimp. The factory crimp die is really a second resizer die it doesn't apply a traditional taper crimp.

[Walkalong]

The 3 die set will taper crimp just fine. The FCD die does taper crimp as well. It is not another resize die. It is designed to only size rounds that are over sized so they will chamber. It should only just barely kiss an occasional round if all is well. It is totally unnecessary unless you are loading cheap bullets which may have some that are oversized, or are seating bullets crooked. Then the FCD die will ensure they will chamber. As long as you are using good quality, properly sized bullets, and are not seating them sideways, the FCD die is a waste of time and could do more damage than good.

Personally, I like to crimp in a seperate step with a crimp only die, but it is not absolutely necessary. You can seat and crimp in the same operation, setting it up just takes a bit more care.

[RippinSVT]

Thank you for the info, so then can I adjust this bullet seater die to apply X amount of crimp, or is it preset at say, .377? Would you recommend buying the FCD additionally? I am using LRN bullets for the record.

[RippinSVT]

Thanks for the info Walkalong, that is extremely helpful. I guess I'll save my $20 on the FCD unless I really need it if/when the bullets I am usings are loose in the case. Thanks a ton guys!

[jfh]

The Lee 3-die set includes a #3 die--the combined seater-crimper--that produces a taper crimp or a modified roll crimp. If the die body is set "high", it will do the taper crimp. If it is set lower, then the crimp gradually becomes Lee's modified roll crimp--which, instead of rolling the edge smoothly in a continuous radius, "bends in" as well.

(Someone may well show up with a link of pictures showing this; I don't have either the pictures or a link.)

If you plan on using the Lee 3-die setup, then start with mounting the die body high, and just incrementally lower it until it provides the taper crimp. While you are doing this setup, have the seater stem screwed out--and as you think you hit the proper (taper) crimp, then start bringing the stem down to seat the bullet to the correct LOA.

It will take some repeat trials to do this, as the two settings interact. That is, as you bring the stem in after (supposedly) getting the taper right, you may find your bullets getting shaved, so adjustments to the taper will be needed. Plan on building numerous "dummy" rounds (no primer, no powder) to get the taper crimp and LOA set up right and confirm they chamber readily in your pistol chamber.

Needless to say, run your rounds through the resizer-decapper (#1) and get the PTED die setup to bell and provide the minimal amount of flare for seating the bullet.

If you go to a 4-die paradigm, then you can use either the Lee taper crimp die or the FCD die in station four. That makes for easier adjustment of the crimp and the LOA.

Lee considers their Taper Crimp die now unnecessary, as they tweaked the seater-crimper back in the eighties. I would agree with this, generally. The Lee FCD die, OTOH, does allow for more precise tweaking of the crimp, with the typical advantage of post-sizing your rounds--i.e., reliable chambering if your LOA and feed are set up for your pistol. (It also can induce other problems, but generally, it's a good die to build semi-auto fodder.

I'll forgo commenting on your recipe--I've not reloaded 9mmP for some time.

Any other questions, ask away.

Jim H.

[rcmodel]

unless I really need it if/when the bullets I am usings are loose in the case. If the bullets are loose in the case, you have problems bigger then what a crimp die will fix.

Bullet tension in the case is completely controlled by how much the fired case is resized, and how much the expander opens it back up again.

With the tapered 9mm case, you have to screw the sizing die down against the shell holder to get complete neck sizing several thousandths under bullet size.

Then when you expand it, you should still have a .002" - .003" smaller case neck then the bullet. The small amount of case mouth bell allows you to get the bullet started.

All a taper crimp does is straighten out the case mouth bell the expander put in it. The finished taper crimp should just kiss the bullet without squeezing into it.

If you attempt to use the crimp to make up for a loose case neck, all you are doing is squeezing the case & bullet undersize.
Then, the hard brass case springs back more then the soft lead in the bullet, and you end up with a damaged bullet that is still loose.

rc

[RustyFN]

Since you bought the three die set I would try it to see how you like it, you can always buy the FCD. Put an empty case in the shell holder and run it all the way up. Then screw the seating die in until you feel it touch the case. Lower the case out of the die and screw in another half turn and that should be very little crimp. The farther you screw the die in the more crimp. Case tension will hold the bullet in place not the crimp. You need very little crimp for 9mm. I use the FCD for every caliber I load for including lead bullets because I like to seat and crimp separate. Be careful not to use too much crimp or you will start shaving lead off the bullets.
Rusty

[The Bushmaster]

Lee three dies sets in semi-auto calibers are tapper crimp as per response from Lee...

A crimp is not needed on 9mm X 19. Just remove any belling remaining. If you crimp at all, just kiss the bullet

[RippinSVT]

Thanks for all the help guys! I'm used to loading JHP's in my .357 loads, and I put a pretty good amount of crimp in those (with an FCD) and the accuracy out of my revolvers is markedly better. I have never loaded for 9mm, and although I don't think it is some profound difference over other pistol cartridges, I have been told by numerous sources that it can be tricky. I appreciate all the help!

[The Bushmaster]

The only trick in reloading 9mm X 19 is keeping your fingers out of the way of the press when you pull the handle.

[rfwobbly]

I really love my Lee 9mm FCD and have used it now with several different die sets. If you can afford it and your press has 4 positions, the FCD will definitely make things easier and better. Easier since you're not trying to do everything at one station, so adjustment is greatly simplified. Better because the Lee TCD puts a great crimp on 9's that easily adjustable in .001" increments.

I highly recommend this die.