Antique gun import from UK?


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Bob88
January 29, 2009, 03:05 PM
Hello, new member, first post.

I have a friend from the UK who has a US Army issue Colt .45 M1911A1 S/N 2296xxx and two clips that he inherited (found in a barn or some such). He tells me that citizens of the UK can no longer own or possess handguns (but he has it just the same). So when I saw him last, he said to me that if we can get the gun over here, I can have it, he would use it (at shooting range) from time to time with me when he is in the US. I have an firearms ID and own two other handguns.

Looked into this and understand that an FFL has to file a ATF Form 6 (or can I get the form and do it on behalf of the intended FFL?).

The gun (we assume) is not worth a lot of $$, but we agree that it would be nice to have and to shoot instead of being kept illegally in the UK. (Edit: Maybe it is worth more than I thought? The serial number looks up as 1945 production, end of WWII) Two FFL's (both of whom I have used for domestic transfers) say that it is not worth the time, trouble and expense. Is this truly the case (and is there part of such a transaction I could do to make it easier for the FFL?). I would like to have the gun imported if it was feasible.

So, I would like to hear people's experience and if there are FFL's who have (and would) do this sort of transaction, I would be grateful to know about them. Also, any opinion of such a guns worth?

Thanks in advance and regards,

Bob

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Pulse
January 29, 2009, 03:14 PM
you would have to do it over the offical channels, wich in turn means that the UK gov will get to know that he has a handgun -> he goes to jail for 5-10 years, will be portrayed as childmurdered in the media and he will have trouble traveling once he is out of jail, especialy in to the USA.

tell him you destroy the gun as fast as he can, its not worth the trouble.

woodybrighton
January 29, 2009, 03:57 PM
being under a 100 years old and not an obslete calibre its as illegal as grandads bring back mp 44 would be in the states assuming it was'nt registered.
I'll check with my mates one is a dealer and the other might as well be a hundred odd rifles all for personal use yeah right:D.
serious old european sporter habit to fund.
But I doubt theres a way round the law.
some people do own handguns still ,very rare e.g. farmer owns a colt python for animal dispatch and a bit of plinking.
there is a machine gun club couple of lewis guns and vickers in the back of an old landrover while .22 olympic target pistols were in an armoured van for safe keeping.:confused:

woodybrighton
January 29, 2009, 04:17 PM
first thing to realise is the brit 'mate' is in possession of an illegal unregistered firearm. now that is serious pokey time. (if its not a de-act)
'I was just going to ask the police if I could export this handgun I found to a mate in the states' will make a very interesting defence plea and I for one would love to hear the judges reply.
so in a word no hell no :eek:

woodybrighton
January 29, 2009, 04:40 PM
if if it was a 1911 could be held on a section 7

possilby a registered firearms dealer could export it for you find one who has a section 5 licence and give them a ring don't turn up with said gun they won't be impressed.
but I'd bin it somewhere deep and wet

Bob88
January 29, 2009, 04:56 PM
"if if it was a 1911 could be held on a section 7"

It is a M1911A1, etc., etc. as described in my original post. It is a 1945 vintage US Army (stamped right on the gun) handgun.

So far, sounds like monkeys flying out of my butt would be more likely than figuring out and realizing a legal transfer into the US.

What's a "section 7"? Guess that is a UK loophole which allows possession of certain firearms?

Can't my buddy simply state that he was returning the property to the US where it came from? ;-) At least there would be a shred of truth in that defense...

woodybrighton
January 29, 2009, 05:04 PM
sorry he might approach a sympathic firearms dealer but a watery grave is probably its best bet:(

much like the argentine para stock FAL my god farther might have given me :uhoh:
section 7 allows handguns to be held at certain armourys but only certain types.

some rugers were allowed to be held due to "ASETHIC REASONS" but not colts or smiths as there ugly :)

armedandsafe
January 29, 2009, 05:20 PM
I;m sending a message to an UK buddy who might have some input.

Pops

EmGeeGeorge
January 29, 2009, 05:25 PM
does he have an ocean worthy sailboat... do you?

Odd Job
January 29, 2009, 05:47 PM
Tell your mate to ditch that 1911 pronto. Unfortunately no good will come from any handling of that pistol. Them's the breaks.

armedandsafe
January 29, 2009, 05:54 PM
Here is the response from my buddy in England.

Pops
The problem here is that the guy with the Colt in the UK is committing a serious offence with a minimum 5 year jail term. It doesn't sound like he is a gang member type, but the law is the law and he is on the wrong side of it. I would stay well clear, I doubt there is anyway he is going to legally send it anywhere. If I were to advise him I would suggest he hand it to the police or a dealer without delay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by armedandsafe
Jump in here...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=424090

Pops

__________________
DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed.

A little silliness can be good for the soul

This from a guy who hangs out with SAS and police agencies to repair guns and shoot full autos.

Pops

Geneseo1911
January 29, 2009, 07:12 PM
This makes me sick. A piece of history and the best advice that can be given is to destroy it. This pistol should be cherished and shot, but socialist feel-gooders have destroyed personal property and self-defense rights.

I know we don't advocate law-breaking on THR, but if it was me, I'd mail it to the US in several small packages with no return address, from the continent if necessary. I wouldn't tell another soul on either side, and I wouldn't leave any paper trail. This noble old weapon deserves better than a watery grave or languishing in some museum as an example of what free men used to be able to enjoy.

woodybrighton
January 30, 2009, 08:07 AM
unfortunatly handguns disappeared because somebody who should have had there licence revoked walked into a primary school and murdered half a dozen kids and there teacher:mad:
This in a country where handgun shooting was a minority sport and the NRA and other lobbyists bent over backwards never to offend anyone.
The majority of the population was solidly behind the ban having had any access to weapons restricted in the 1920s.
not because of crime because the goverment was afraid of the working class being armed:fire:

Bob88
January 30, 2009, 08:13 AM
Gene,

In theory your idea sounds good, but practically speaking: I do not think one could make international shipments anonymously (but it is worth looking into!) and second (if it is like other guns I own) it could not be taken apart sufficiently to no longer make it represent a gun. In this quest I read somewhere that even the frame of a handgun is considered a firearm, and the frame only comes apart so far, the bare frame looks like a gun.

So my summary of posts so far (thanks everyone for your input) is that there is no way to do anything with the piece without taking serious risk, risk that should not be taken lightly. Beyond that, it is just a damn shame that an interesting/nostalgic piece of history must be hidden from the light and is a risk to a person who dares to hold it in that country and further that there is no good way to send it to the place it came from and where it could be held and used legally.

Thanks,

Bob

throdgrain
January 30, 2009, 08:31 AM
Deleted

MagnumDweeb
January 30, 2009, 08:50 AM
A shame really. If I lived in a pseudo-slave state where folks who are worthless live off the doll (as said by friends from England, family in Ireland who are thankfully moving back to a free country) and harass good honest folk, and I had found a gun that had been unfairly put on an illegal list becuase of the 'subject' mindset of a people...that's a hard one. Some folks might try to do the right thing and get pinched by a worthless government stooge. Some might toss it in the ocean, some might disassemble it to oil it up for storage and bury it in separate parts of a property they had access to under foot thick small slabs of concrete and work on figuring out how to make bullets for the gun, even if they are only good for single shots to protect themselves from the possible day the infeebile minded government collapses and gets overrun by hordes of handout self-entitled 'no-snitching' garbage. One should never break the law and I hope I would never have to make that choice.

One should never break the law, and as such I'm glad to live free in the South of the United States.

Bob88
January 30, 2009, 08:59 AM
A shame indeed. Look at the post before yours (which has been deleted). The poor guy thought better (probably more like thought about "big brother") and figured he had better delete what he had posted.

My friend in the UK says he has had a success in regard to this quest today, has good news and to watch here. What could it be? Here's hoping it's something we (he and I) can act on.

Bob

drgrenthum
January 30, 2009, 09:00 AM
"I know we don't advocate law-breaking on THR, but if it was me, I'd mail it to the US in several small packages with no return address, from the continent if necessary. I wouldn't tell another soul on either side, and I wouldn't leave any paper trail. This noble old weapon deserves better than a watery grave or languishing in some museum as an example of what free men used to be able to enjoy."

I second that......Break it down into as many pieces as possible and ship them one at a time.

don134
January 30, 2009, 09:07 AM
I am the guy in the UK with this and i really want to thank Bob for setting this up and all the posts you guys have made.

The great news is i decided to use my contacts in the Police armed unit here (i am ex military and worked on UK emergency service network so thats the link i have with them) and all is now well, with the best possible outcome.

I am on route to hand it into the Armed Response Unit guys. They will register it to me, send it for forensics and if it cleared it becomes mine. Now for the mad bit that is i can't have it. Even thought its mine it must stay in their armoury. The good news is that they have informed me i can have it sent to the states via a dealer, which they are going to help me sort out.

I will update this later on with the final outcome, as of course if this has been involved in crime (very unlikely been wrapped up in a barn in South Wales for 30 years) then obviously i won't get it back straight away.

Regards
Aaron

Bob88
January 30, 2009, 11:26 AM
Well this is an unexpected and great development! Once made whole, the task will then shift to doing an FFL import (ATF Form 6 filing, etc.).

Can anyone recommend an FFL that has done or would be willing to do an import?

woodybrighton
January 30, 2009, 12:28 PM
concrats some twisting of section 7 going on but an intelligent response to a problem.

6_gunner
January 30, 2009, 12:48 PM
Wow! I'm very surprised to hear that there is any legal way to export a handgun from England.

I was going to suggest that you "lose" it in whatever barn it was found in, rather than letting it rust in a watery grave.

Too bad you don't get to keep it, but I'm glad it won't have to be destroyed.

ScottsGT
January 30, 2009, 12:56 PM
Call the US Embassy and tell them that you "found" some US property left over from the war, and you would like a US official to make sure it makes it back to the states. Even if it doesn't go to your friend. Better than at the bottom of a lake or smelter. Maybe there is a Museum you can donate it to?

Fred West
January 30, 2009, 01:55 PM
unfortunatly handguns disappeared because somebody who should have had there licence revoked walked into a primary school and murdered half a dozen kids and there teacher

Actually it was 16 children. There was no way we were going to keep our handguns after that.

Fred.

Bob88
January 30, 2009, 02:21 PM
Well, it is the end of the road for me on this, I found an FFL in Montana that does import of handguns, great, right? Not so great. They told me that the US does not allow import of M1911's due to something about the US having manufactured these weapons, sending them over (to whom we do not know) and not getting paid for them. Why that would be the basis for a non-import restriction I have no idea, but assuming this is true (and a place that specifically does handgun imports would know, right?), it is the end of the road as far as getting this gun into the USA :-(

If for no other reason, historical, anyone have any poop on this aspect of WWII era M1911's?

Regards,

Bob

nbkky71
January 30, 2009, 03:30 PM
Bob88: Did your overseas buddy actually legally inheirit the gun, or property that the gun was found on? If so, there might be some legal recourse for him to legally dispose of the gun through a dealer. Perhaps one of the UK members can speak to firearms inheiritance laws...

I'd take the FFL's story with a grain of salt. He might know what he's talking about, but then again he might be offering his interpretation of a rule. You can always try fill out the ATF Form 6 and see if it gets rejected.

ScottsGT
January 30, 2009, 03:51 PM
No, he's right. the repatration act. I think it was Billy Bob Clinton that passed it. If it was sold to another country, it cannot come back to the US. There are a lot of them floating around in Canada that cannot come back, along with Garands and Carbines. The CMP gets rifles back from countries that had guns on loan from the US Army.

nbkky71
January 30, 2009, 04:03 PM
Ahhh... understood.

However, one might be hard pressed to get an accurate history of the gun in question, hence my suggestion to fill out the Form 6 anyway.

for example: perhaps the original owner had resident alien status, legally purchased the pistol in the US and legally took it back to the UK before their ownership laws changed.

Lots of "what if" scenarios... I too would hate to see a 1911 end up at the bottom of the ocean

don134
January 30, 2009, 04:10 PM
Bob,

I have to laugh at this process, as i have just got the opposite to you in that a UK dealer http://www.normanclark.com, who was recommended to me by the police to deal with shipping to you, gave me a quote of 270 to do this. "No problems".

I will go back to him next week with your findings to see what he says about that. However the story gets even better. Once the weapon has been checked, forensics or whatever, then i get it back! "What the hell!!!" i here you say, yes thats right the police shocked the hell out of me as i was walking out saying just pop over sometime to fill in some forms so you can get it back. So i queried the comment some more and found that if, like me, it has been handed down through family then i can simply apply for heirloom status and thats it, its mine to keep at home, no de-activiation or anything working pistol mine legally in UK. I was very confused so clarified this three times. The police then told me that they have never had a case turned down for heirloom status and lots of people in the UK have pistols at home. He then said what they have done to tackle this is NO ammo what so ever is in the UK i.e. there is no .45 calibre legally anywhere in the UK so even when they let me keep it i couldn't use it as no ammo. Whatever at least its safe and won't be destroyed so this gives us time to figure out what to do next.

Still shocked i am going to get it back to be honest but this means we can slow things down and see what the real deal is with getting it to you. I like the suggestion before someone made about approaching the embassy to see if they can help. Maybe i don't know i am in no rush it is going to take a few weeks for claim and the checks to go through so i just going to dig into the rules and the process for import/export of this or even if as you say due to the type of weapon just insn't possible.

We will get there or i will de-activate and mount in cabinet or something, maybe museum but whatever its not being destroyed that is real great news. A great peice of history and a very good, reliable weapon is saved. I guess we are a rare case Bob thats why there is confusion over what to do and how to do it.

Regards
A

don134
January 30, 2009, 04:22 PM
Another funny is its got "UNITED STATES PROPERTY M1911 A1 US ARMY" so why wouldn't it get let into the US when its your property? Lol, If it was me, I would salute it for duties served as it landed on US soil. I will post again when i find out the form i will fill in to keep it and keep looking for a way to get it to US/Bob. If its turns out to be true that i can't get it to Bob then i will just mount it in my home office, hoping for the day the rules change and it will get to breath cordite again.

thanks for all suggestions so far

Cheers
A

razorback2003
January 30, 2009, 04:57 PM
There is probably a lot of history behind that old 1911 45. I am so glad that the UK police decided not to shred it up and throw it away. Who knows...that handgun may have helped defend the USA and UK. Can the handgun be sent to France or the Channel Islands? I have heard some of the UK Channel Islands it is legal to own handguns. It would be nice to shoot such a neat piece of history and not let it be deactivated for good and just a paperweight.

Bob88
January 30, 2009, 10:40 PM
Hi Aaron,

Up in Vermont this evening for a weekend of skiing. Ask your export man if he files the US ATF Form 6, if yes then fine, stipulate to him that you (we) will be responsible for his fee only if he successfully transfers (given what I was told). L270 is just under $400 US, the person who told me the M1911 was banned only charges $75 (but there was one other place the internet search turns up in Texas that charges $500. Hope fees would not be due on both ends!).

Given both our interest and desire to see this gun "breath" again, if there is a way, we will find it.

I will not bother to renew the one pistol permit I have not executed (renewal buys me 90 more days, something like 05/18/08) since we do not know how much time "the process" might take. I can always apply for a new permit when/if the time comes.

In any case, it is kind of fun, a very intricate story/journey for the real situation on what is what and what can happen!

Cheers my friend,

Bob

Geneseo1911
January 30, 2009, 11:04 PM
Please keep us updated, guys. This is definitely an interesting thread, and I'm anxious to hear the resolution, especially now that it sounds like it will be a happy ending.

Did I mention that I LOVE 1911's?

HeavenlySword
January 31, 2009, 12:10 AM
You don't know... the gun banners are even going after air guns... they might require your pistol to be de-activated 5 years later... and then it might be hard to transfer over here

Plus, how do the cops know its a heirloom? Don't they need records or something?

Odd Job
January 31, 2009, 06:49 AM
I have serious doubts that the 1911 can come back to the OP. If that was an option via heirloom status then all the guys at the shooting club would have done it with their fathers' pistols (there will be more pistols like this and dare I say even pistols not handed in when the ban came about).
The issue is that it isn't an antique. It fires a modern cartridge that is still in production (by the way we can have 45ACP, it just has to be in a firearm of a minimum length which is not semi-auto). If such a thing as a 45ACP lever gun existed or a single shot rifle, we could have that here in the UK.

Bob88
January 31, 2009, 04:00 PM
Oddjob,

The piece is an antique in the US.

Have a look here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm

"Firearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm."

Curio: a rare or unusual thing valued as a collector's item.

As for the round being "modern", have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

"The .45 ACP (11.43x23mm Automatic Colt Pistol), also know as the .45 Auto by C.I.P., is a rimless pistol cartridge designed by John Browning in 1904..."

The round design is 105 years old!

I don't think that the fact that it is still used today makes it a "modern" round.

Regards,

Bob

Odd Job
January 31, 2009, 05:21 PM
Bob, I am looking at this from the UK side, not US. Check this out, page 40 Section 8.5 Note ii, and section 8.6 (c).

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance.pdf?view=Binary

I don't think that the fact that it is still used today makes it a "modern" round.

That's precisely the thing that makes that pistol so 'evil' in their eyes: the fact that ammunition is 'readily available' for it. It doesn't matter when the cartridge was first designed, it matters that the cartridge can be had in quantity in modern production.

Bob88
January 31, 2009, 05:53 PM
Yes, I was thinking of it from the US point of view.

Well, guess there is a few things to be found out. Whether or not the gun can be made legitimate in the UK and then if it can be imported into the US.

For my part, I am going to call the ATF Firearms & Explosives Import Branch and ask them if the M1911 is banned from being imported as the FFL importer I found said.

Aaron will see what happens with the UK police and we will go from there.

Thanks,

Bob

Geneseo1911
January 31, 2009, 07:30 PM
Gentlemen-
I was doing a little reading today concerning the Curio & Relic FFL. In the publication containing the list of exempt "curios" there is some general information about what an "03" FFL (C&R) can do. You can find the document here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/2001index.htm
In it, there is mention of importing C&R eligible firearms (anything 50 yrs or older OR on the list is a C&R). I am no expert (nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but my understanding is that an 03 (or a standard "01", I think) licensee can import guns on the list as long as they were never owned by a military. The caveat to this is that they must be "sporting arms" and handguns must meet a certain criteria to be classified as thus:

Licensed collectors may lawfully import curio or relic firearms other than surplus military firearms, nonsporting firearms,
and NFA weapons. [A surplus military firearm is defined as one that belonged to a regular or irregular military force at
any time. Alteration of the firearm does not change its status. Therefore, a sporting firearm with a surplus military
frame or receiver is a surplus military firearm, because a frame or receiver is classified as a firearm as described in 18
U.S.C. 921(a)(3).] Surplus military firearms are generally prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3).
However, 18 U.S.C. 925(e) authorizes licensed importers (FFL type 08 or 11) to import surplus military rifles,
shotguns, and handguns classified as curios or relics; provided that such handguns are generally recognized as
particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. Nonsporting handguns are those pistols and revolvers
that do not meet size and safety prerequisites, or that do not accrue a qualifying score on ATF Form 4590, "Factoring
Criteria for Weapons." Surplus military firearms classified as curios or relics must be in their original military
configuration to qualify for importation.

This may be the regulation your FFL was thinking of. You'll also note that the "Colt, model 1911 commercial" is specifically on the C&R list if under a certain S/N (under 130000), as are "US pistol model 1911 cal .45" made by the various manufacturers. I'd put my money on that pistol being a curio (and a relic) and importing being quite simple, especially if it's legitimately held in the UK.

Shung
January 31, 2009, 08:24 PM
We will get there or i will and mount in cabinet or something, maybe museum but whatever its not being destroyed that is real great news

DOn't do this.. a de-actived gun is not a gun anymore.. it's worthless, even for a collection..

it's like having a motorless Ferrari.. even if you did not want to drive it, it still sucks knowing half the car is missing..

Afy
February 1, 2009, 09:18 AM
I would get rid of it. ASAP

zoom6zoom
February 1, 2009, 12:50 PM
The piece is an antique in the US.
C&R, not antique - that has a separate definition. An "antique" must have been manufactured prior to 1898.

Bob88
February 1, 2009, 01:21 PM
Afy,

Aaron has already handed it over to his local Armed Response unit, so that part has been accomplished.

To the other poster on antique vs. curio, thanks.

Bob88
March 4, 2009, 10:56 AM
Update on the effort to import the subject M1911A1 back to the US from UK. After much patience and persistence, "the trail" led to the US state department, referred there by the ATF. What the ATF needed was a letter from the state dept. stating that they had no objection to the re-importation of the gun. I GOT THE LETTER!

Now to do a ATF Form 6 transfer using a FFL that does this once the UK authorities are finished with their checks on the gun.

Looks like this gun might make it back to the USA and be able to be used and enjoyed for what it is afterall. Thought you all might like to know how this was going and how it is likely to turn out...: Well!

Regards,

Bob

Geneseo1911
March 4, 2009, 11:08 AM
AWESOME NEWS BOB!

And yes, I do mean to shout!

Glad to hear this political prisoner will be able to make it home.

ScottsGT
March 4, 2009, 11:37 AM
That's news worthy if it all comes to fruition! That is great!

Duke of Doubt
March 4, 2009, 11:46 AM
This story really ought to appear in American Rifleman. "Old Warrior Home Safe." Lots of human interest, collectible firearms interest and gun law and firearms policy interest. Of course, if Holder and Clinton hear about it, they'll ban any further such rescues.

kentucky bucky
March 4, 2009, 03:56 PM
It reminds me of when I visited a friend in Newcastle Upon
Tyne in 1992. He had a really nice 1870's Snider Enfield carbine that he wanted me to have. I brought it home in pieces in my suitcase. I made sure the folks at the X ray machines knew ahead of time what they would see on their screen. I had to convince several bureaucrats in two airports that it was an obsolete weapon and ammo was non existant. (I lied a bit) My buddy kept the butt plate, which had a number on it and the firing pin and mailed it to me at a later date. I had in in my checked luggage, not my carry on. When I arrived in the USA, the customs agent couldn't have cared less about my luggage, I knew then I was home free. The best thing is that 2 years later my English friend came to the states and shot the carbine for the first time in his life. It's one of my favorite guns to this day.

Duke of Doubt
March 4, 2009, 04:07 PM
Considering as how England rapidly is falling under mohammedean control, it's just as well they won't have guns.

Bob88
September 3, 2009, 10:06 AM
Update: Pistol has been cleared by the UK authorities and we are proceeding with the process of legally having it re-imported into the US. I have a letter from the US State Dept. in hand stating that they have no objection to it's re-import. A few hundred $$ in fees and a little more patience and we should be able to complete this (arduous) process!

Regards,

Bob

zombienerd
September 3, 2009, 10:31 AM
That is too cool that you guys were able to do this :)

I can't imagine how much money will be gone into this total, but I've gotta say I'm proud of you guys for even trying.

Hillbillyz
September 3, 2009, 10:38 AM
Two governments working and getting something correct, what are the odds that will ever happen again.

Geneseo1911
September 3, 2009, 12:58 PM
fantastic news, Bob!

We would love to see a pic of the old warhorse; better yet one of you shooting her!

Bob88
November 2, 2009, 01:20 PM
I just wanted to come back and report that after all the effort we made to get this piece from the UK to the USA, it has finally hit a dead end. This because of ridiculous costs for an official to personally transport the weapon from the UK authorities to the airport to be exported to the USA. There seems to be no way around this and the former owner (who surrendered it to authorites) is trying to have it put into a museum instead, anything but having it destroyed.

Guess I can put my state department clearance letter that I worked so hard to get can go in a museum too.

Sorry I don't have better news but thought you all might like to know how it turned out. Not well.

Regards,

Bob

ScottsGT
November 2, 2009, 03:18 PM
This because of ridiculous costs for an official to personally transport the weapon from the UK authorities to the airport to be exported to the USA.

So how much is this ridiculous cost, if you don't mind me asking??

Odd Job
November 2, 2009, 03:36 PM
I am also curious, my guess is 200 - 400

ScottsGT
November 2, 2009, 03:38 PM
I am also curious, my guess is 200 - 400

that's still reasonaable for what the outcome would be. I'd pay it.

Bob88
November 2, 2009, 03:54 PM
I wrote my UK buddy to be sure (or get more detail), his previous email said $1000 US or more. Two official guys, vehicle with lockbox bolted to vehicle, etc...

Sucks.

ScottsGT
November 2, 2009, 04:11 PM
Well, WWII Colts are bringing $1500 plus. Still might be a good investment.

SharpsDressedMan
November 2, 2009, 05:33 PM
Maybe it would have been better to store it for when Britain calls for aid in the form of arms again. It has happened twice already.......

woodybrighton2
November 3, 2009, 07:16 AM
might be worth trying the people on arrse.co.uk the army rumour service have some firearms dealers might no a work around if you ask in the shooting sports section.

Oro
November 3, 2009, 05:40 PM
$1000 US or more. Two official guys, vehicle with lockbox bolted to vehicle, etc...


OMG. You have to be kidding. This is what it takes to move an unloaded firearm in the UK these days?

At this rate, pretty soon, even the POLICE won't be allowed to babysit children. Oh wait, that's already the law:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/sep/28/government-orders-review-babysitting-police

woodybrighton2
November 4, 2009, 06:14 AM
NO you can move long guns around fairly safely.
at the commonwealth games at bisley competitors .22 target pistols were moved around in a special armoured car with armed police as escorts:eek:

meanwhile the machine gun club (they exsist and its legal ) vickers and lewis guns plus ammo were in the back of a ratty landrover:D

BTR
November 4, 2009, 12:49 PM
Woodybrighton2, you have GOT to tell us about the british machine gun club....

Cosmoline
November 4, 2009, 01:09 PM
does he have an ocean worthy sailboat... do you?

LOL that's what I was thinking.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but not surprised.

Maybe you should forget the 1911 and smuggle *HIM* to freedom!

woodybrighton2
November 5, 2009, 04:02 AM
They exist its a few old boys with a couple of vickers and lewis guns.:D
You can legally own machine guns,rpg's, grenade launchers etc in the UK all you need is a part 5 firearms certificate :what:good luck with getting hold of one though:mad:
you've got to have a good reason to own one. "because I want one or its just so kewl won't do:("
how or why the machine gun club survives I don't know keeping a low profile having historical valuable weapons that are not attractive to criminals hardly going to do I drive by with a vickers are you probalby helps.

philuk44
November 6, 2009, 12:31 PM
One of the older members at my club is a firearms dealer and has a section 5 certificate. He tells stories of "back in the day" when he would take the train from London to the ranges at Bisley carrying a sub-machine gun or two and a pile of ammo............ :)

Phil

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