[AUTIGER04]

I have a buddy that wants a S&W 9mm Sigma. Are they any good and what should he expect to pay for a new one? Do they accept Hi Cap Mags?

ps
Nope its not me Im getting a GLOCK.:D

[George Hill]

Avoid the Sigma.

Avoid the Sigma at all costs.

If the Sigma is the last automatic in the gun case... then buy a revolver.

[10-Ring]

Even S&W makes a better poly gun than the Sigma! GEt the SW99 instead ;)

[Flashpoint]

Why the Sigma?
:confused:

[Ala Dan]

Can you say "Funky" ?

They tried to copy the Glock, but failed miserably!:( :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Gordon]

Well guys , thru a trade I wound up with 10 Sigmas; 9mm & 5 .40's. I sold them off at $300 each with 2 high caps each. I kept 1 each 9mm and 40. It makes the perfect truck(or console) gun. Damned if the 40 isnt VERY accurate (3" at 15 yards ALLTHETIME) and has NEVER jammed or choked or malfed in 1000+ rds of HP! Have had a few malfs in 9mm in a couple thousand rounds and sights are too low (hits way high) . See my for sale add for high caps for $50 each(plug). Hard trigger but useable . Best $300 buy around IMHO!:)

[BlackJack]

I would buy and use a Sigma without any reservations if I needed an inexpensive pistol. I have owned four different Sigmas at one time or another so I have a lot of experience with them. Also both of my kids have Sigmas and rely on them.

The grip is ergonomically designed and is a better fit for me than the Glock or almost any other pistol. The gun is safe and easy to use and is easily as reliable and accurate as any competitors, especially given the price.

That having been said, I have encountered at one time or another all the problems you hear people whining about. I have had light primer strikes in my first Sigma (a pre-VE) and had S&W fix the problem. I have had occassional failures to feed or eject (jams) which were corrected by the use the newer 10rd magazines or hi-caps. But all of these problems and more I've had in Glocks, SIGs, and a host of other pistol brands. And all of these problems can be addressed and corrected.

It never fails to amaze me that people will badmouth the Sigma but praise to the heavens their $700 SIG, Glock or 1911 which can have the same problems the Sigma can have, not to mention how readily they reject the testimony of Sigma shooters who like their pistols and have never had problems with them.

Bottom line is, if you've got $300, you can get a reliable accurate pistol that will meet basic needs. It is called the Sigma.

[MJRW]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I had a Sigma that jammed more then Shmuckers.

If the Sigma is the cure, its better to die of the disease.

If Sigmas were falling from the sky like rain drops, the safest place to be would be outside since they would never hit anything they should.

If Santa Clause came down the chimney with a sack full of Sigmas for me, I'd take the coal and tell him to never come back.

Given the choice between a Sigma and Twinkie for self-defense, I will take the Twinkie. Perhaps the bad guy will be distracted by the golden sponge cake and creamy filling.

I would have used the Sigma as a paper weight, but I value the paper too much.

Anyone that tells you they have a functioning Sigma either works for S&W or has mistaken their Glock for a Sigma.

[ront]

I owned a Sigma in 40S&W for a while. I never had a bit of trouble with it at all. I have heard a lot of talk about them though. I would look for a Steyr if you can. It will probably cost a bit less. I like the way it fits my hand just as well as the Sigma and it seems to be a great gun. I like mine. I have the S40.

Ron

[Flashpoint]

If he is looking at it for the ergomomics then he might want to look at the Steyr. I can say they do have a better trigger then the Sigma. I have a friend who has a Sigma in .40. When he first go it he had a lot of FTE, but it was fixed with a new spring. They are not the best guns in the world, but there is nothing really wrong with them as far as I can tell.

[Black Snowman]

But MJRW how do you REALLY feel? Let it out man. It's not safe to bottle up like that ;)

Personally no experiance with Sigmas so I can't say one way or the other.

[rblack]

I have had 3 Sigmas, and still have one. They have worked just as well as my Glocks, and have been just as accurate when you get used to the trigger as with any gun. For the price I think they are a deal.........

[dsgrntldPW]

I had an early Sigma and let it get away, to my regret. Great ergonomics (much better than my Glocks), reliable, handled well and good accuracy out to about 15 yards. Good price. But I succumbed to all the trash talk and just knew that any day my Sigma would turn into a pile of goo before my very eyes. Sold it and put the money towards another Glock, which I was never happy with. I may yet get another one in 9mm, as at the last show I saw new factory 17 rd. mags going for around $60. As stated earlier it would be a fine car or house gun. And shops around here seem to still have Sigmas reasonably priced.

[scottsw1]

I had a Sigma .40. It had the stainless slide and the black lower, I loved the look of the pistol, but couldn't shoot it worth a hoot due to the trigger.

I bought the Sigma really cheap, but eventually traded it off to buy a Springfield XD. I like the XD a lot more than the Sigma, and the XD is easier to shoot. Scott

[SouthpawShootr]

I have a Sigma in .357 Sig. As I understand it, not many of these were made. I've fired it, but it's pretty much a safe queen for the timebeing. No reflection on the gun, I'm just not that much in love with the cartridge. I did have some problem with the magazine release early on. I sent it back to S&W and never had a problem after that. They fixed the mag catch and sent the gun back within 10 days. So yes, I would buy one (if I needed one) and, after extensive firing without any problem, I would trust my life with it. I won't buy anymore Sigmas because I have an abundance of Glocks in just about every caliber offered and I'm not in polymer mode anymore.

[BowStreetRunner]

ive shot two and they are ok
if it was my money i would try out a steyr...they look so cool and are in the same price range
thats my .02
BSR

[railroader]

Look for an XD9. Good ergnomics, good trigger and cheap 15 round mags(XD40 mags). I have only shot one sigma for comparison and the XD trigger is way better. Mark

[denfoote]

From what I've been able to read, Sigmas are hit and miss. If you get a good one, great. If you get a bad one, then you are screwed!! Ofttimes the bad ones cannot be fixed!! :eek: I, for one, am not willing to plop down my hard earned money on a bet with those odds!! I don't go to Vegas either!!! :D

[DigMe]

From what I've been able to read, Sigmas are hit and miss. If you get a good one, great. If you get a bad one, then you are screwed!! Ofttimes the bad ones cannot be fixed!! I, for one, am not willing to plop down my hard earned money on a bet with those odds!! I don't go to Vegas either!!!

ALL guns are hit and miss. Some miss more and some hit more. There isn't one model out there that has never had some defective ones. The good news is that the company usually rectifies the situation. In the case of Smith and Wesson they will rectify it VERY quickly. I had a problem with my Sigma .40 when I initially bought it several years back. I sent it in and had it back all within a week and it has functioned flawlessly since. It could use a good trigger job though!

brad cook

[Okiecruffler]

The only Sigma I've ever owned was the little .380. Possibly the mushiest trigger I've ever had the displeasure of pulling. Wouldn't feed anything but hardball, and sometimes not even that. Was so bad I decided to carry a Grendel instead.:what: Those of you who have had a good experience with them, more power to you, but I wouldn't take one on a bet.

[CZ52GUY]

Ruger P95 or P89
CZ-75B or 85B
Springfield XD

or

2 Makarovs in 9x18

CZ52'

[Russ]

I shot a .40 Sigma that some guy at the range let me use after I let him shoot my Kahr MK40. It wasn't bad at all. I have heard nothing but bad things about them on this board but my limited experience with one was surprising. I don't really like Tupperware guns so I won't get one but I'm not sure they are all as rotten as most say.

[denfoote]

ALL guns are hit and miss.

Brad,
Never had a Glock fail right out of the box like I have heard Sigmas do!!!!! :neener:

Never had a Ruger screw up either.

Funny, my new Springfield 1911-A1 sent rounds down range right out of the box!!

Point is. I have never read the kind of horror stories about any other gun, things like jamming with a live round in the chamber!!!! You know, every day gun problems!! :rolleyes: There are also the cases I have read where the problem could not be fixed by S&W!! :uhoh:

Not me!! I'll pass!! :evil:

[ront]

Isin't Brad saying that there are lemons from time to time with all guns. I would also bet if S&W can't fix it, they would replace it. Again, I had a Sigma and it worked perfectly.

Ron

[fmjcafe]

I`ve got a little SW380 and am happy with it. Mushy trigger? Ok, I`ll give you that but it ate everything I ever put in it and for what it is, accuracy is acceptable. Pocket pistol, tackle box gun, works for me.

[BowStreetRunner]

thats it, lets put this debate to rest!
the richest of us will buy 20 sigmas and shoot them till they die and then we can have statistical evidence of their quality!
i am definitely not the richest so someone else will have to do it!
BSR

[Jason Demond]

It depends who you ask.

I have 2 Sigma’s a 9VE and a 40VE. I have fired over nine thousand rounds in each of the guns with out much of a problem. I have used the 40VE for CCW; I also picked up a few hicaps for it. The trigger was a little gritty, but it’s ok now. The Sigma seems to carry around a bad rep. I think it's because of the bugs in the first generation of Sigma’s and from the people who think Glocks are the next best thing to sliced bread. I know that Glock took S&W to court over the design of the Sigma and S&W lost. I know one guy that told me my gun was a piece of crap, I asked him if he ever shot one and he told me no. He never even handled one before, he was only going by what someone told him.



The trigger spring on the 40VE broke at the 9000 round mark, it's back in action now though.:)

[DigMe]

Never had a Glock fail right out of the box like I have heard Sigmas do!!!!!

Never had a Ruger screw up either.

Funny, my new Springfield 1911-A1 sent rounds down range right out of the box!!



denfoote,

Your argument would hold merit had I said "ALL denfoote's guns are hit and miss."

The fact that you've never had problems with those guns is pointless here. Fact is there are plenty of people that HAVE had problems with guns from all those manufacturers as well as many other highly respected manufacturers (Kimber, Springfield, Sig, HK, etc...). That is truth. It happens.

brad cook

[Abominable No-Man]

I've had a couple of Sigmas in the past. Both of them worked pretty good-
no FTF's, FTE's, ate pretty much anything I put in the mag. Got rid of both of them, although in hindsight I wish I hadn't, or at least kept one.

Anyway, Sigmas seem to have a bad rep, maybe from the first generation of them, although one of mine was a 1st Gen, and it worked great.

They feel and point a WHOLE lot better than the Glocks (and no, I don't work for S&W....). Glocks feel weird and have a sucky trigger- Sigmas feel really good and have a sucky trigger. Both work, take your pick.

ANM

[mrapathy2000]

get a steyr they are bit smaller, much better quality. trigger is nice on steyr and it has safety and lock built in so no damage from external lock. sigma trigger is bit funky.

if you can get the sigma below $250 then it might be worth it as long as its not a old used gun. check the slide to frame fit if its poor get something else. another advantage of steyr better frame to slide fit. steyr is availible in 9mm,40S&W,357sig medium sized frame. availible in subcompact .40S&W and 9mm though 9mm subcompacts are rare and pricey. rest of them are $300-$400 which beats $600 price they started out with in 1999.

[denfoote]

Brad,
Actually, I did have problems with a gun!! A Hi-Point 9mm Compact. It was so bad that it is now buried somewhere in the vast Sonoran desert!! About 4' down!! :D

[duncan]

Should you ever get a Sigma?

Hell no.

WHY?

I must admit and confess. I owned one of the second generation, new and improved Sigma 40SW V series guns years ago. I really liked the grip and its erogonomics. SW got it right on the ergonomics.

But it experienced mutliple FTE, FTE, FTLB, FTS. Broken firing pin, messed up factory magazines, and it would not reliably feed FMJ. Forget JHP and that is after the SW certified gunsmith polished the feed ramp for me and completely "rebuilding" it per the factory.

They had five others in the shop too. From different manufacture dates.

Junk.

I used to be an investigator for Boeing in Seattle. More than 200 uniformed security officer had multiple versions of the Sigma line. And their armorers could not keep up with the repairs. Many officers could not qualify on the range due to the high level of failures. SW rebuilt and upgraded all of them twice and they still are big problems.

Is 200 plus bad Sigmas that are given light shooting duty but still jamming and failing to efect or slide not locking back or bad firing pins, enough evidence for you.

I saw them at the range "trying" to qualify with those pathetic guns. Even the range employees were laughing.

If you want the fugly gun with probably the WORST reliability reputation on the Net, tell your "friend" to buy it.

Why just not buy a used Glock, Sig, HK USP, Springfield XD, CZ, BHP, EAA Witness, and so on. Lots of great feedback on these guns.

I think your friend needs to save up his money and not make the mistake I made years ago. They gave me my money back and I bought a Glock.

If money is tight, the EAA Witness polymer line is a good value and they are good guns.

[duncan]

BTW - I shoot regularly at the Seattle Police Range and over the years, I've NEVER seen any city, county, state, or federal LEA that issued Sigma's to their officers.

Maybe they have two contracts with some poor rural 5-cop agencies but you won't see LAPD, NYPD Boston, Las Vegas, or the Dallas police packing them.

Funny many agencies still pack the SW revolvers. Wonder why? Because they make the finest revolvers. I have several.

But as to autoloaders, I can recommend the SW 3919. That is a fine gun. And the 10mm 1006 and 1076 are great too. But stay away from the . . .

STIGMA!

You'll get more rib shots than Evander Holerfield!

[BeLikeTrey]

The sigma sw9f was my first pistol. Originally, I bought it for the wrong reasons. Capacity Capacity Capacity Capacity! The sights aren't too good on it, shoots low. But those can be changed. As I understand, the sigma sometimes tosses the front sight on the 40 cal. Last but not least, reloaded rounds tend to get lodged in the chamber (works fine on all factory loads though). possibly reloader error.

Now the good news, 17+1 is nice to have. people sell the high caps all day long at 50$ a pop. It shoots very reliably with the factory loads I have put in it. Pachmyer slip on grips make it even more ergonimical. The only failures I have had are when limp wristing it or with reloads. I trust it to carry if that helps.

The pistol is going to have it's supporters and it's detractors. This sounds alot like the numerous M16 discussions. And will end the same. You do what you feel is best. For the money the pistol is sound IMHO. As with
ANY weapon there are pluses and minuses.

If it helps you... A large police agency here, used to carry them. The front sight was the only complaint from them.