Whats the best lie you had a gun seller tell you

The M stands for marketing. They basically took every marketable feature about the gun, and made up a spiffy name that starts with M.
http://the-m-factor.com/html/design.html
http://the-m-factor.com/html/technology.html
etc. etc.

I've had a couple pulled on me before I knew better.

The first guy tried to sell me a Winchester '94 beat to death then drug behind a truck on a cross country trip. Said it was a great beginners rifle! Only for $450!



Next was the guy that sold me my EAA Witness :banghead: If I had known what the springs were supposed to look like, I would have known that this LNIB gun probably had well over 20K rounds through it. :what: :banghead: (Again I was young(er) and that was my first handgun)



Last was this dealer at the gun show I got my Saiga .308 at. I couldn't decide whether I wanted the .308 or the .223 from another vendor. The guy with the .308 wanted $400 but the guy that had the .223 wanted $700 and change. When I asked him why his was so much more expensive, he went "Oh less of these were imported in the US so they're worth a lot more." BTW, at the time the .223 and 7.62x39 saigas were about 3x as prominent as the .308 models. I got a steal there! :D

the best lie i have heard...'this won't hurt very much'.......

I heard a sales man one time trying to convince a customer that a Springfield Armory GI 1911 was both double and single action. I disagreed and he went out of his mind on me. I made him "prove" it and when he couldn't he got yelled at for not checking the gun before pulling the trigger and lost me and the other guy as a customer.

Thank you Atblis!

Gun shop owner tried to sell me an AR15 about 10 years ago. Pretty good price. "It'll shoot nickel groups at 500 yards." I told him I didn't need that one because since I only had access to a hundred yard range it's be too hard to measure the groups.

I went to my first gunshow figuring I'd be sure to find that little "something" that would catch my eye and maybe even be affordable. I may even find another mag for my .45 Witness. And I did! The guy says it's brand new, never been loaded and is a real deal at $65. Cant find 'em cheaper than that anywhere. I said, "it's sure got a lot of powder residue to be a new mag." and that kind of stumped him. I went home and bought a new one on the net for $25 plus shipping. I LOVE modern technology!


Ps- there wasn't any powder residue on my new mag. Should I be upset? LOL

Not really a lie, but sort of funny... Guy at Dick's was talking to me and my buddy about shotgun ammo, and he says "I would use buckshot for home defense. Get you some 00, and line up the bad guy with your bedroom, and no more bad guy, and no more nagging from the wife, if you know what I mean." I lol'd, bought the buckshot from him, went home, and thanked my parents for having a good relationship.

And there's a shop near me with great staff. Honestly, some of the nicest guys around. But their WASR-10/63's are $600. M91/30's are $120. 870 is around $400 for the HD Express model. I just can't bring myself to support their long gun sales. Decent pistol and ok ammo prices, though.

This thread all but proves the study I heard about several years ago.

They did a study to show that some folks are so dumb they do not even know how dumb they are. Also, the more a person brags and acts like a know-it-all, the less likely they are to know anything.

They took a bunch of college kids and gave them all a math test. The test had problems ranging from simple arithmetic to advanced calculus. They interviewed each student when they finished the test. Basically they asked them how they think they did.

Some students bragged about how easy the test was. Some students felt confident about their efforts, but could recall a few math problems they had some doubts about.

Any way, they then scored the tests and compared the results with the interviews. The students that bragged the most did the poorest. The confident, yet with some doubt students did much better. In other words, the dummies didn't know how dumb they were and overly compensated for their shortfalls by bragging.

I am positive that this princilple applies to many folks in the gun business.

One told me that a Taurus Ultralite was just as good as the equivalent S&W.

Target Sports in Royal Oak, MI ?

Your wife is going to love your having this. If she doesn't, you'll get your money back.

This guy was a friend, but it still sort of bothered me because it might mean other customers believed it. He worked at a shop, and firmly believed that, to cut a shotgun down to under 18", all it would require is a $5 tax stamp, and that you could apply for and get the stamp AFTER doing so.

I had another guy try to sell me a Nagant revolver for $170, when they were $69 from J&G, and told me it was "well worth it," and he could get more.

I bought a broken shotgun from a pawn shop after being told that it worked perfectly and I could bring it back if there were any issues. I brought it back and they refused to do anything, even to give a partial refund. It wouldn't even load shells, but I wouldn't have known that unless I brought snap caps into the shop, and that was my first 12ga purchase so I wouldn't have had a reason to own them.

I had a shop guy tell me that my Remington 1900 is worth less than $150 in any condition, because they're mainly "owned by farmers who don't have anything else."

I check out a lot of shops and consider buying and selling often (not as easy as with other hobbies, such as buying and selling music gear, which I do constantly), so I'm sure there are more, but those come to mind.


I think the issue is two-fold. I've noticed that with the firearm interest comes a lot of fairly outdated practices and mindsets. A lot of the guys that are still around are of the older generation, and are often very set in their ways, irritable, treat younger people as lessers, and approach selling used firearms like used cars. It's worked for them before, so they continue to do so. I've probably met more crotchity, angry gun shop owners than friendly ones, and I'd say I'm a pretty friendly customer.

The second issue is that I'm younger, I am small, slim, and I have a fairly passive, entirely intimidating tone with strangers. With this older generation of people who think they can fool the lesser experienced, I think they try their hardest to pull beginner's tricks on me. A year or two ago, it might have worked better, but buying and selling a lot, and thanks for forums like this, I think I'm decently informed on the topics I have interest in (revolvers and shotguns, I know very little about autos and rifles), and I've had a number of people lie to me to my face, whether it's from their intention to trick me into a sale or just out of their own ignorance. But you also can't tell those people they're wrong, especially when you're younger and built like a kid.

One day i was in Fred Myer's sporting goods section. I over heard a young (teen age) clerk telling another young male that he really needed to buy a Glock 19 9mm. He said it was the best hand gun ever, made for bear protection.:eek:

I was in a small gun store and just was browsing the case. I guess the guy behind the counter thought I was eyeballing the Hi Point, which I wasn't but the firearm that was close to it.

"Everyone needs one of these for home defense, they are very affordable". No thanks I said, I already have something for HD. ;)

just the other day i heard a gun store employee talking to a young woman that was in the store. she was looking for a round that she could put in a 44 mag for close range protection while in the local outdoors. (northern cal, so we have some black bear and mountain lion). the gun store empoyee proceeded to tell her that a hollow point round would likely get caught up un the animals fur and not do any damage, and that she should use full metal jackets only. lol

didn't read all the replpies but if it's a repeat sorry. Was at a gun show during the AWB and heard a dealer tell a customer that he couldn't put a pre ban hi cap in his post ban Ruger P89.

just the other day i heard a gun store employee talking to a young woman that was in the store. she was looking for a round that she could put in a 44 mag for close range protection while in the local outdoors. (northern cal, so we have some black bear and mountain lion). the gun store empoyee proceeded to tell her that a hollow point round would likely get caught up un the animals fur and not do any damage, and that she should use full metal jackets only. lol
He is correct in part in that a deeper penetrating bullet will do damage to internal organs much better then a hollow point will...Remember we're not talking a 150 to 200 pound man with a heart three/four inches beneath the skin but a deeply muscled, massive, 300 to 500 even 600 pound black bear with a heart much deeper within and protected with a thick shoulder (scapula) bone and dense musculature.

Hollow point are designed to expand their energy instantly and many bears have been wounded with them because they haven't made it passed the first layer of fat and muscle...The reason for so many bullet companies being formed was to combat this one item--Controlled expansion.

Maybe a JHP or some of the Keith style bullets would be the best compromise...FMJ may get the depth but looses out in the expansion department...Old adage "The bigger the hole the faster the death'...Then again it also depends a lot on her loads...Speculation here only, but being a woman she MAY, quite probably have reduced loads in her .44 Rem mag which will be more then adequate for mountain lion--being so soft skinned, slight framed animals but may have to step it up a notch for big black bears or for sure a good, deep, expanding bullet.

One day i was in Fred Myer's sporting goods section. I over heard a young (teen age) clerk telling another young male that he really needed to buy a Glock 19 9mm. He said it was the best hand gun ever, made for bear protection.:eek:
I don't see a problem with that statement on face value since any modern .380/9mm semi auto with fourteen plus rounds in the clip (magazines to you Yanks) will be just as effective against black bears as any five/six shot .44/11mm will be and against grizzly both will work but shot placement and of course bullet type is the major issue with any of the smaller calibres.
It wouldn't be my first choice but if I can only afford to own one handgun it isn't a bad way to go--they have fabulous reputations with lots of the world's military and police...I'd rather choose the Model G20 or G29 in 10mm (which is quite comparable to a .41 Rem mag that I shoot exclusively)...Maybe the G37, G38 or G39 is .45 GAP or the G21, G30 or G36 in .45 ACP would be better choices for the customer.

just the other day i heard a gun store employee talking to a young woman that was in the store. she was looking for a round that she could put in a 44 mag for close range protection while in the local outdoors. (northern cal, so we have some black bear and mountain lion). the gun store empoyee proceeded to tell her that a hollow point round would likely get caught up un the animals fur and not do any damage, and that she should use full metal jackets only. lol

he was right. although a hardcast bullet would be better than fmj. penetration is your friend when it comes to big animals.

hardcast>FMJ>hollowpoint when dealing with bears and and other thickskinned animals with internal organs protected by a thick layer of fat.

One told me that a Taurus Ultralite was just as good as the equivalent S&W.
At what?
putting holes in paper or bad guys, then yes it would be equvilant.
comparing manufacturing techniques then S&W might have a slight edge.
comparing costs then the Taurus wins out.
My Charter Arms does the same thing for less money--does that make it a "poorer" weapon?

Sorry, but I'll give this one to the store clerk.

At gun shows, selling a lot of M-1 Garands at $900 is comical, all by itself.

Many came from the CMP, were Service Grade ($595 or less: if bought years ago) and not only could have had parts replaced since the CMP's evaluation, but have different stocks.

I once walked into a local store asking if they carried CZ products. Was specifically trying to find a PCR. The guy behind the counter said "No, but I have some Taurus guns over here, they're just as good if not better than CZ."

What could I do but laugh and then turn around and walk out.

with as many Taurus guns that are out there...I refuse to believe that they don't make a good gun. I do not own a Taurus right now, but I have in the past and I will again in the near future. Every company makes a lemon once in awhile. I think much of the Taurus bashing comes from second or third hand information and internet complaining.

once walked into a local store asking if they carried CZ products.

Asked that same question. The clerk pulled me aside and showed me the only two cz pistols in the store.

In a hushed voice he said: "Only real gun guys know about CZ's...guys that really shoot."

with as many Taurus guns that are out there...I refuse to believe that they don't make a good gun.
I agree, Taurus makes a pretty good revolvers (particularly for the value-conscious consumer), and produces good copies of other designs (Beretta 92 & Colt 1911), though their own pistol designs leave quite a bit to be desired IMO (I would call them mediocre at best, but it's still more than likely to go *bang*).

:)

the clip (magazines to you Yanks

A clip feeds a magazine, a magazine feeds a gun.

Fivetwoseven I think the image you were looking for was http://www.reoiv.com/images/random/clipmag.jpg

This doesn't qualify as a lie just stupid.

Im looking at a stag model 3, so I decided to asked about transfer fees or if they stock them at a few local gun shops... Went to the closest, never really liked them since they told me my Glock could feed .45 gap because it was made for Glocks.... Yea... Anyway I inquired about the fee, prepared for the worst, upper side of 50$ maybe... nope, 20%!

Needless to say, I went 1 mile down the road to another shop, offered me 50 under msrp and no fee. I know where I won't be going back to.

A clip feeds a magazine, a magazine feeds a gun.
When the American Shooting Teams came over to England prior to 1900 they mixed up the nomenclature with what the British Forces were using to feed the Lee Enfield rifles—the stripper clips fed the magazine which was removable but for cleaning only—no “Tommy” took extra magazine with them just stripper clips and spare rounds.

Really, then why did John Moses Browning call them clips in the first semi auto designs presented to the US and Belgium firms…Check the patent papers.

You 100% absolutely correct--a clip feeds a magazine which is the storage place in the internal working of a rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Just because the USA calls them magazines doesn't mean the rest of the world does although unfortunately too many countries are switching over to your terms since they are using your M16 rifles and parts lists.

So, I'm at a rifle range shooting and the guy a couple of lanes down keeps getting failure to extract with a M1 rifle. I always carry a cleaning rod, and let him knock out the stuck case a few times until he gives up. Very broad NY accent, quite an unforgettable gentleman.
Fast forward a few months and there is the same guy selling some Colonel's personal M1. In his broad NY accent and very loudly telling stories about this very rifle. Used in VietNam, Korea, and as issued in the WWII. With a 1954 HRA barrel? He does not remember me so I ask him for a closer inspection, and the name of the colonel, chat a bit about if the original owner was a colonel in WWII. Answered yes Green Berets can only advance to colonel? Anyway on inspection I recognize the rifle and the same chipped weak springed extractor. So I ask how it works and was told perfectly as the colonel rarely had to shoot at the enemy. Told that this rifle is all original and as issued in WWII.
I do know that M1s got a refurb, refit and overhaul many times. And I didn't call him on it.

And I didn't call him on it.You should have called him on it.

Maybe so duns, but if you know what your buying...
Never buy a story unless the seller can provide provenance. And in a few minutes some one else would be at the table listening to the same "story".

The best lie that I have ever been taken with was at the last gunshow that I attended, at which I purchased a Henry .22 lever action. I was told that it wasn't shot much. I purchased for $200 and took my new treasure home. It jammed every other round and when I took it apart, I found that the loading block was made of plastic and looked as if a beaver had gnawed it. I ordered parts from henry arms and fixed said issue.
I try to be as honest as possible when dealing with anyone on anything, and to be flat out lied to just makes me loose a little more faith in humankind. I wouldn't lose my integrity over a dollar, but there are some that have no problems doing so. Thanks for letting me rant.
pinstripe

I was looking at an old Italian army rifle, and the seller said "It's never been fired, and only dropped once." :)

Heard one today at a pawn shop in Missouri.

"Yeah you won't find the PF9 cheaper than that."

The price tag said $350.

I was looking at an old Italian army rifle, and the seller said "It's never been fired, and only dropped once."

I thought that was more of a French rifle thing...

When the American Shooting Teams came over to England prior to 1900 they mixed up the nomenclature with what the British Forces were using to feed the Lee Enfield rifles—the stripper clips fed the magazine which was removable but for cleaning only—no “Tommy” took extra magazine with them just stripper clips and spare rounds.

Really, then why did John Moses Browning call them clips in the first semi auto designs presented to the US and Belgium firms…Check the patent papers.

You 100% absolutely correct--a clip feeds a magazine which is the storage place in the internal working of a rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Just because the USA calls them magazines doesn't mean the rest of the world does although unfortunately too many countries are switching over to your terms since they are using your M16 rifles and parts lists.

I just looked at Browning's patent papers. He refers to magazines as a "cartridge magazine or holder".

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. A magazine is the part of the firearm that holds cartridge, and from which they are fed one at a time into the chamber of the firearm. Magazines can be detachable, like on many modern semi-automatic firearms, or magazines can be integral, like on the Lee Enfield, many modern bolt-actions, many modern shotguns, lever-actions, etc.

Are you saying that in Britain and Canada a detachable magazine is (validly and traditionally) called a clip?

Not a seller, but I know a guy with a General Motors M1 Garand, and he has a GI issue .223 sniper AR that saw service in 'Nam.

I got a new one for you guys, for my Astra A-90, the plastic grip panels cracked, took it into the shop and requested some grip panels be made for replacement (only replacement I found was on GB and they were wood too, but I didn't want to pay $110 plus shipping for the things), plus I'm getting a better deal (or so I thought).

The lie, you ask? Said they'd be done in a month tops. That was back in late-March, early-April. It's been around seven months now, and STILL haven't gotten the grips or the frame back!

Well today, at the gun show, a guy told me: "A semiautomatic shotgun isn't the best for Home Defense. You want a pump for that, because if you rack the slide, he's gonna think twice about doing whatever it is he's doing." I racked the pump several times. Nobody stained their pants.

Only thing the guy is gonna hear is the safety coming off my 1100.

Well today, at the gun show, a guy told me: "A semiautomatic shotgun isn't the best for Home Defense. You want a pump for that, because if you rack the slide, he's gonna think twice about doing whatever it is he's doing." I racked the pump several times. Nobody stained their pants.
Yeah you hear someone break in so you rack your shotgun expecting to hear them run but they heard you and also racked theirs.

Shoot
lots of lies
but either I'm gullible or most of the places I frequent aren't so bad
worse one I hear was 'no there's not a matching bayonet' for a MN right out of the shipping crate, a slap to the back of the head (for letting a mismatched bayonet walk out the door) by his boss and 3 minutes later, I had my matching bayonet.

"In Israel the desert eagles in the military have tripods and are crew served weapons"

A friend of mine bought a Taurus pt92. I said oh that's a beretta copy right? He says no. It is a beretta. The guy at the gun show told me Taurus bought all the beretta machines and moved them to brazil. So it really is a beretta. Oh ok... Could of sworn I heard the same story about stoeger and moving the machines to turkey.

Ledge,

As far as I understand it, that is exactly what Taurus and Stoeger did. The difference is not in the physical size and shape of the individual components, but the metallurgy of the components.

Edit: And as it happens, I don't really know if I like the feel of the Stoeger 8045. It feels different from my Beretta. Without field stripping it, I couldn't say, but I am guessing there is a different finish and/or metallurgical compound used. After posting the first one, I had to run some errands so I drove by a LGS to handle one. YMMV

Ledge,

As far as I understand it, that is exactly what Taurus and Stoeger did. The difference is not in the physical size and shape of the individual components, but the metallurgy of the components.+1; with respect to the PT-92, it is the older (and IMO better) design of the Beretta 92 with the safety on the frame (rather than it's current location on the slide).

:)

You want a pump for that, because if you rack the slide, he's gonna think twice about doing whatever it is he's doing.

Plus he knows that you escalated this situation to life or death, and he knows where you are. It's a bad myth that increases your chance of getting shot by providing the "enemy" with valuable intelligence on your intentions, position and armament.

The only way I want the bad guy to know I am there is in that last small fraction of a second when he perceives the muzzle flash.

that a norinco ar is just as good as a COLT , I had a very hard time keeping a straight face

As far as I understand it, that is exactly what Taurus and Stoeger did. The difference is not in the physical size and shape of the individual components, but the metallurgy of the components.

It's still a copy. It's not like gun companies need to have specific machines to make a line of guns. I bet every gun factory in the world has about 99% of the same equipment. Let alone if they bought used equipment had it removed and then shipped across the globe would be a waste. Benelli puts out stoeger shotguns. I haven't seen anything in writing to confirm Taurus or Stoeger are making beretta guns on beretta equipment.

Gun mfr copy each other all the time. Look at keltec and ruger. They didn't need to buy keltec equipment to do it. I think it's urban legend until I see it in writing. I think I may have seen something regarding stoeger and beretta. Definitely not Taurus though.

I stand corrected. I just read this from Taurususa website. Do'h!

Beretta had won a huge contract in 1974 to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use Brazilian labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao Paulo. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally "lock, stock and barrel," to Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force. Taurus was in the pistol business, and immediately sought to improve on the Beretta design, resulting in the popular and acclaimed Taurus PT-92 and PT-99 9mm pistols.

Ledgehammer
BOTH the Stoeger line and the original Taurus line are Beretta equipment, set up by Beretta.

THEY are built on Beretta's machine, by Beretta trained tech.....
so they are a BIT more than copies, unless you consider license built mere knock offs

That's like saying all AR's are just copies of armalite.

"Plastic is better than steel."

They may have been telling the truth.
Last Feburary, a customer asked me to order him a Walther P38 from Southern Ohio Gun (not exactly a small outfit). He wanted the P38 with certain markings and grips. I called four times a day for two solid weeks, sent several emails and to this day I've never received a response from SOG. I understand how busy some internet suppliers get, but this was ridiculous.
I pick up ammo there regularly, not big by any means.

That Cutts Compensator on that Model 12 is FACTORY and INCREASES the value of the gun!

"That there is a Chinese 75 round drum"

"What you want for it?"

"80 bucks"

"Sold."

(It was a rare Norinco 100 round backloader!)

But he lied to me.

A friend of mine bought a Taurus pt92. I said oh that's a beretta copy right? He says no. It is a beretta. The guy at the gun show told me Taurus bought all the beretta machines and moved them to brazil. So it really is a beretta. Oh ok... Could of sworn I heard the same story about stoeger and moving the machines to turkey.

Yeah, they're clones.

But I'll tell you one thing. Those PT92's are GOOD friggin' clones.

Wear one at the office. :)

(Although I always get that "nickle plated sissy pistol" line in my head whenever I holster it, you know, from "US Marshals")

I walked into a gun store and was just browsing around and he tried to convince me that CZ made the best bolt action rifle on the planet. I am not disputing his claim that is his opinion. Where the lie started was when he said . CZ bolts are machined so tight that you have to have special oil for them one drop of standard rem oil on the bolt and it will create to much friction and the bolt will not open. Then he tried to sell me some of the brand oil that would allow the bolt to open. .......


My CZ bolt gun works just fine with any type of oil. I didnt argue with him or say anything ...I just let his stupidity entertain me for a while.

Stoeger are making beretta guns on beretta equipment.

Stoeger is owned by Benelli, and Benelli is owned by Beretta...so yeah Stoeger is technically making beretta guns on beretta equipment

Don't worry, this Remington 700 was made WAY after they had the problem with their safeties, and this has the new, safer version. Last gun I will ever buy from DAM ROAD GUN SHOP, WISCONSIN.

Stoeger is owned by Benelli, and Benelli is owned by Beretta...so yeah Stoeger is technically making beretta guns on beretta equipment


Beretta actually sent the original Cougar machines to Stoeger. So, it really is made on an actual Beretta machine.

I'll jump. When I first moved to Florida, I knew almost nothing about guns, coming from NYC and all. So I decided to go into a gun store and ask them what's good for a beginner like me. And the dude told me that the best gun for a beginner was a Luger, which he just happened to have and of course tried to unload on me.

Eddie Ed

its funny......every time i look at a gun......i always ask them "so what kind of accuracy have people been getting out of these?"....

......its not because i dont already know........its because i have fun seeing what they tell me it is......


and every time....without fail.......the guns always shoot " far better than i am ever going to shoot"....or "these things are dead on"........i even got that response on a 2" snub nose revolver....

now either the salesmen have absolutely no confidence in my shooting ability.....or every gun they sell is match quality......

Plus he knows that you escalated this situation to life or death, and he knows where you are. It's a bad myth that increases your chance of getting shot by providing the "enemy" with valuable intelligence on your intentions, position and armament.

The only way I want the bad guy to know I am there is in that last small fraction of a second when he perceives the muzzle flash.
Is there any evidence that racking a shotgun has resulted in the Bad Guys shooting a Good Guy, ever? I'm not even looking for a citation, just someone willing to stake their honor on remembering having actually read about an actual incident.

Is there any evidence ever, that muzzle flash inside a US home has drawn fire from bad guys?

I was at the Dallas market hall show with my nib 4 screw S&W m29 looking for a display case for it. The same puny old man that always hits you up at the front when you come in says, "Hey, what do you have?". I tell him "just an old S&W". He says "Since it's so old, I'll give you $250". Now every time I go by his table, I tell the customers around it to be aware of the shyster.

This thread is awsome. Thought I'd add in one time I heard about. I was in Wal-Mart looking at ammo when a couple was called back to the gun counter. The woman was buying a shotgun for her husband and both had come in and filled the paper work just to be covered. It looked like they had been wondering around a while waiting for something to come through. Any way the sales man said "I can't sell you this gun. Your too enthusiastic about it." I was trying not to laugh when she said this. The couple got pissed and just walked out at that point.

Now, I'm not faulting anybody for refusing to sell a gun but I'm sorry, your telling me when a dad brings his kid in to buy a gun the kid isn't enthusiastic about it?

Jeesh, I'm excited about pretty much every gun I buy...Heck, the other day I ended up flipping a coin in the gunshop to figure out whether to get an eotech or a CZ75...was pretty excited about both!

that a SF Range Officer is as good as a Wilson Combat :banghead:

"There's no such thing as a Glock 30SF.... condescending chuckle.....The SF is the 36 Slim Frame."

"Never buy a Glock from (competitor gun store) because they swap out the parts of the new ones with the police trades"

Awesome thread. I've read several things about the B&S around here, and my experience with them was eye-opening as well. As in bugging out at the prices. I guess they're aptly named.

I see no need to step in there again.

I also have not read all the posts so sorry if this was mentioned...

Not related to actual firearms but I have personally been witness to a lot of wrong and miss-information being given out by a few different firearm stores and their employee's pertaining to Wisconsin’s new CCW Law.

Stuff like incorrect number of hours required for training, where and where not it would be legal to concel carry, wrong information on requirements neede to apply / obtain the license. As a member of a WI Carry group and having had some input throughout the process of getting the law passed, I actually do know the "facts" regarding the new law fairly well. As such, when customers were given wrong information (that could have ended up with them in jail or spending more money than necessary for training), I was happy to correct any miss-information and prove my assertions by referencing actual state statute numbers,

To be clear, I am in favor of getting the most (non-mandated) training one can afford, but when an employee says more training is "mandated" than really is, and there are training posters all over the store recomending "their classes", then I have a problem with that...

Outdoorsman1

That is kinda what I like about shows. Just listening to all the BS that rolls out so easy is amazing. Laughing at people. I guess that you could call me a people watcher. I like to watch people and their facial expressions and everything else. I went to a show this past weekend with a buddy of mine and we spotted us a group of elite 'mall snipers'. They were extremely tactical and would only look at tactical things. They were a hoot to watch and listen to. One really done all the talking, schooling the others.

Awesome,

kenken

otcconan - "Check out the Mossberg, action's sweet as silk. Then notice that the trapdoor to the magazine is missing."

Huh? I don't understand. I can't recall ever seeing a Mossy 500 series with a trapdoor under the action. AFAIK the Mossy's don't come with that feature.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Am I missing something?

They dont come with a trap door. Id say he was talking aboutthe elevator.


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I was in a Gander Mtn one day looking at .380's. The guy had the LCP and TCP out. He told me the Ruger didn't have a last round hold open (which I think is right, correct me if I'm wrong). Then he said the Taurus is nice because it does have one, but it doesn't have a slide release, so you have to rack it. He had put in an empty mag and demonstrated the hold open. I pointed to the button on the side and said, "So what's that?" He said he didn't know, pushed it, and like magic the slide released. He gave me some lame excuse about handling too many guns that day, I thanked him and left.
Later I heard the same guy talking to a guy getting a .22 for his kid. Clerk said, "Get the Ruger, it's the.only really reliable semi .22. The Marlins aren't very reliable."
I almost went up and called his BS right to his face, but decided to mind my own business. Kinda wish I had.

Ranger officer/salesman
"steel cased ammo ruins your gun! They scratch up the chamber and pretty much destorys the inside after couple thousands of rounds, here buy these overpriced 45acp FMJ ammo for the range, what are you shooting by the way?"

I told him no thanks, pulled out 200 rounds of Wolf 45acp and a almost new Dan Wesson Cbob then shot them all at that range

Gander Mountain 4 years ago.... "What's the difference between this XD9 for $429 and this one over here for $499?" Answer: "That one comes with free XD gear."



Same store a few months prior. Price went up $60 on a Ruger SS6 from Friday to Monday. Asked why..... "All guns now come with free gunsmithing and cleaning for the first year."

This happened years ago, just as the ban on hi-cap mags in California was looming... I went into a store that used to get a lot of my business, and was looking at a 915 Smith (wanted a cheap and reliable pistol for use out at the ranch)... He pulled one out of the box, and it had a single 10 round mag, not the pair of 15's that come with the pistol. I asked what the deal was, he tried to tell me that the 15 round mags (yeah, the ones the gun shipped with) were an extra for that pistol at $125 each... he would be happy to sell me an extra 10 round mag for $75... I asked Mr Used Car Salesman why the box for the firearm had spaces for both mags, he gave me some song and dance about how S&W expected you to buy a spare mag for the firearm...

Mind you, I think the MSRP on that firearm was all of $300 or less. :fire:

Needless to say, they not only didn't make the sale, they actually asked why a "smart girl like me couldn't see what a great deal that was"... :barf:

Gander Mountain 4 years ago.... "What's the difference between this XD9 for $429 and this one over here for $499?" Answer: "That one comes with free XD gear."



Same store a few months prior. Price went up $60 on a Ruger SS6 from Friday to Monday. Asked why..... "All guns now come with free gunsmithing and cleaning for the first year."
Not entirely impossible as they do sell an "essentials" kit. that doesn't come with the junk holster and mag carrier,

Not entirely impossible as they do sell an "essentials" kit. that doesn't come with the junk holster and mag carrier,

The point is "free" XD gear....for $70 more

What a great time for this to get revived! Had knee surgery yesterday and read every post(1088 to be exact). At least I was already wasting my time stuck in bed.

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I heard too many "XXXX is the best" and "XXXX is crap" comments about various guns one day and I've stopped being nice about it ever since. I just call them on their BS now.

I wonder what psychological thing is going on that so many people seem compelled to believe that there is only one brand or model that's the best in any given category. They're always searching for a zenith that doesn't exist.

I wonder what psychological thing is going on that so many people seem compelled to believe that there is only one brand or model that's the best in any given category. They're always searching for a zenith that doesn't exist.

I don't know about the psychological aspect, but I believe that the phenom that you are referring to is a direct result of very effective marketing. I've noticed that when ever someone buys anything, (not just guns) then that was the best choice to make, and if anyone else made a different selection, then they were just plain wrong.

The current firearms market is full of guns that are very similar. For example Glock sells a lot more pistols in the US than Styer. But the Styers (in my view) are a little better in every aspect. But just wait and watch the reaction to this post. Emotion will win every time nowadays.

I just read every single post!! This thread is amazing! not in a good way.. I have been lucky and gotten great deals on my firearms and dealt with very nice people.

However here in AZ at a lgs they had 9mm for $20 and .45acp for $35 a box of 50!!!:what: I laughed my way out the door.

Did you all know that Gen 4 glock 23's are only available to law enforcement? I had a local pawn shop owner try to tell me that. Good thing I didn't buy the one he was trying to sell me. I would hate to have the ATF show up on my doorstep.... (sarcasm)

Stoeger is owned by Benelli, and Benelli is owned by Beretta...so yeah Stoeger is technically making beretta guns on beretta equipment

That is true.

ME: looking at a Rem 700 that looked pretty custom to me.
FFL: told me it was from the factory "new in the box"
ME: can see the box?
FFL: I don't have it the guy who traded it in didn't bring the box.
ME: ?!?!?!?!?........ Bless your heart and Have a nice day.

I guess I don't get out as much as everyone else or I hang out at good shops. Of course I've got Bud's Gun Shop 20 minutes one way and Gilberts Gun Shop 20 minutes the other. I've had nothing but great experiences at both and it's hard to beat the prices at either!

Not a lie but did get swept four or five times at the local Sportsmen's Warehouse by the salesman. He was fired within minutes. Seems he had several complaints for doing this. To make it worse he never checked the guns when he pulled them from the case. Just swept you a few times and handed them over.

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I walked into Gunnies to check out their selection of concealable 1911's (of which they had none) and got to looking at a light weight full size Kimber. Priced at $919.

Me "Not, what I'm really looking for, but what can you do on the price if I do buy this right now?"

Dealer "Nothing".

Me "You can't come down to $900 flat?"

Dealer "Nope, Kimber is raising the price on the 2011 models so we can't budge on the price"

Me "This is a 2010 model?"

Dealer "Yes"

Me "So you can't deal on a 2010 model because Kimber's increasing their price for 2011?"

Dealer "Yes"



I just set the 1911 back on the counter and walked away.

FWIW, 15 minutes later I was buying a Colt 1991A1 Commander on consignment at another LGS, for much cheaper than that Kimber was. Their loss.

D94R I walked into Gunnies to check out their selection of concealable 1911's (of which they had none) and got to looking at a light weight full size Kimber. Priced at $919.
Me "Not, what I'm really looking for, but what can you do on the price if I do buy this right now?"
Dealer "Nothing".
Me "You can't come down to $900 flat?"
Dealer "Nope, Kimber is raising the price on the 2011 models so we can't budge on the price"
Me "This is a 2010 model?"
Dealer "Yes"
Me "So you can't deal on a 2010 model because Kimber's increasing their price for 2011?"
Dealer "Yes"

The quickest way to go out of business is selling an item for less than its replacement cost.

Guns aren't like cars. There isn't a 2010 model, 2011 model etc.

What he was trying to tell you was the Kimber price increase effective in 2011 would keep him from selling his current Kimbers for less than their marked price.

Retailers (in any business, not just guns) need to know their replacement cost before they price their current stock.

Selling his Kimber for less than his replacement cost= going out of business sale in the future.

***And where exactly was he lying?:scrutiny:

laser grips are like used tires; why don't you just install them on the gun for us and it'll sweeten the deal for everyone.

-dealer told me to sell my sig for $400 and to throw in the crimson trace grips b/c they weren't worth anything. I'll show him :D if I can sell the suckers.....
I had someone offer me 300 for my Beretta Tomcat w/ Crimson Trace because that's what they were going for at Bud's. He said he was sure I didn't know that Bud's had them so low. I'm also sure I told him it had the crimson trace on it.

I had another person offer to buy my MG CMJ bullets for the same price he was paying for lead bullets.

"That's a great little deer gun: extremely accurate and when you're done you just fold it up and throw it behind the seat" -- about a Mini-14 with a folding 'paratroop' stock.

The third part about folding it up, while technically true, wasn't exactly sound advice for how to treat a firearm in my book, but it was the first two remarks that got me. First, you can't hunt deer with a .223 in VA (nothing anything under a .25 cal bore, IIRC) and second, it was indeed accurate -- if you call 5" groups at 35 yards accurate.

First, you can't hunt deer with a .223 in VA (nothing anything under a .25 cal bore, IIRC).23 or bigger, but yeah, .223 is not legal.

rromeo - just wait till they come out with a .230 AR or something idiotic like that so people can use the absolute minimum to hunt deer with.

The quickest way to go out of business is selling an item for less than its replacement cost.

Guns aren't like cars. There isn't a 2010 model, 2011 model etc.

What he was trying to tell you was the Kimber price increase effective in 2011 would keep him from selling his current Kimbers for less than their marked price.

Retailers (in any business, not just guns) need to know their replacement cost before they price their current stock.

Selling his Kimber for less than his replacement cost= going out of business sale in the future.

***And where exactly was he lying?

His cost was already covered for him to have that gun in person for me to hold. I wasn't offering to order from a catalog.

If he couldn't cover his cost, then he's already on his way out of business if he has to rely on the next year model priced higher to recoup his cost from the year before. If $19 will put him out of business, that's not my fault.

And who said anything about cars? That's a poor example. But like all goods, prices are negotiable. He didn't want to, so he lost more than a sale.



Sorry, point me to the "LGS didn't lie but didn't care enough to even try to win a sale and customer" thread, Chief.

I'll bite.
Walked into a Gander Mountain in Green Bay looking to check out the feel of a Kimber Ultra. I own a few Kimbers, but never a carry size.
The guy in the gun section walked over and asked what I was looking for. I explained my curiosity with the ultras. He proceeds to spend 5 full minutes trying to talk me out of CCW in general. When he finally took a breath I picked up the gun, pointed it down, and dropped the slide uttering the line "this ain't my first barbecue". He was speechless.

How does an anti CCW person end up in gun sales?

Bought an LCR instead. An Ultra seemed a little gratuitous for a bug anyway.

Had a local guy today in a shop try to tell me that regular .22 bullets were more accurate at 100 yards than sub sonics. Its more of an outdoor shop anyway, so I wasn't expecting much when I went in there only looking for ammo.

LOL, apparently negotiating prices is a no-no now a days and what the FFL says is what goes. Right Mr FFL? Capitalism doesn't apply to the consumer too?

Take a more extreme example to see if it makes sense:

Lets say a dealer paid $100 for a Luger P08 many decades ago - for whatever reason nobody noticed in the display cases and it wasn't marked. A customer comes in and offers him $200 for it. Should he take it? After all, he'd be doubled his money right?

Of course he shouldn't make the sale. It doesn't make good business sense. Its below what the item could be sold for, and its below the replacement cost for the item.

Or consider the flip side: lets say during the Obama scare the guy paid $1500 for a generic AR-15. Thats long over. That rifle now goes for $600. Should he still try to charge $1700 because of what he paid for it, or should be price according to the replacement cost? Realistically he's going to have to price it based on what replacements cost.

Gas stations do the exact same thing. They don't set their prices by how much they paid for the item - they price their stock on how much it'll cost to get more. As a matter of face you'll see this done for virtually every business that works on maintaining sustained stock of items.

Not that I'm saying you were wrong to offer him a reduced price. I'm just saying that his response was completely reasonable.

....Every time I found a collectible Winchester at a wily old dealer, there was "some guy from New York who was driving over to buy it at that very moment...but It's first come, first serve.."

....Every time I found a collectible Winchester at a wily old dealer, there was "some guy from New York who was driving over to buy it at that very moment...but It's first come, first serve.."

And that's why they call them wily old dealers. ;)

A gun dealer tells me that I will not be happy with a .357 Sig because
an autoloader will not reliably feed a bottleneck cartridge. So as not
to be left out of the liars club I said "I wasn't aware a .357 Sig was a
bottleneck cartridge.".LOL.

I just deleted thirty eight posts because they either failed to be topical to the thread or failed the THR attitude test.

Let's try to keep from getting the thread completely locked, OK?

Thanks Rbernie.

1. "S&W Sigma is every bit as good as Glock, it's a direct copy but much cheaper. You'd be essentially buying the same gun." (what about trigger pull ?)

2. "The gun you're looking for won't sell for less than $700 anywhere. I can have it ordered for $620+tax, though, just to get a new customer". CZ75B, internet price from a reputable vendor well below $500. This was a highly recommended small local store, too. Ended up buying a Glock anyway because most everyone was out of stock on CZs.

3. "You need this Walther PPK. Bersa's are notoriously unreliable and break easily. You have to constantly clean them to keep them working. Walthers don't require nearly as much maintenance". Actually back then I was unprepared enough and almost got the PPK, but luckily postponed the decision by another year.

I just deleted thirty eight posts because they either failed to be topical to the thread or failed the THR attitude test.

Maybe you should drink less coffee?

In a fit of madness was comtemplating trading my Combat Commander off. It is one of those ones that were released with the 80BSxxxxxx serial numbers. The gunshop owner had a shop hanger onger look at the gun and prophetically state that even though there was NO firing pin block, it was a series 80 gun and as such wasn't worth that much to them.

I am glad for me as the values on those old Commanders keep going up (especially for ones in pristine shape).

See as the deal fell apart, he was stuck with the rifle he ordered in.

I subsequently found out he got in trouble for not collecting sales tax and was shut down.

I guess it is especially bad to lie to the tax man.

I wrote a post on here sometime last year about my friend and I going to a gunshow. I went with him because he didn't know too much about guns. He was 18 and was looking to buy a handgun from a private seller. While we were there he spotted a gun he liked, and I then asked the seller if he was a private seller or FFL dealer. The man stated that he was an FFL dealer. When I said "Oh okay, never mind, thank you." and started to walk away the man said "What do you have against purchasing from an FFL dealer?". I then explained the situation about my buddy not being old enough to purchase from a licensed dealer. The dealer then started saying stuff in a very rude tone like "Oh, he can't buy a handgun from anybody, not even a private seller. You have to be 21 to own a handgun, there are no exceptions.". After going back and forth with this incredibly incompetent and rude man, who would not even listen to what I had to say, I noticed that he had the "FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership" book for sale on his table. I told him to "look up the law in that book", and walked away. I was too frustrated to listen to anything else he had to say.

Now I know why the 3 day wait period was put into place! :D

I was at the local range shooting some silver bear (steel case .223).

The manager said I can only shoot brass ammo because steel case ammo was bad (he failed to elaborate at all, I know steel aint great for your gun but what does this guy care?). He tried to sell me pmc bronze for $15 a box of 20, I already paid an outrageous fee (non refundable) to use to the range so like a sucker I bought a box. When my time was up I began policing my brass and this guy had the nerve to tell me I cannot take home the brass: from the ammo I paid for because it could be hazardous to reload and since there was other mixed brass on the ground it was range property and dangerous and blah blah blah blah blah.

Needless to say I grabbed as much brass as I could, told the guy he was full of sh*t, and never went back.

I'm sure he was making mad money from all that "dangerous" brass all over the ground... I don't get why some people just have to be asses.

Let's call him "Eberhard." AR parts -- hands me a cheap, thin, stamped, clearly made off-angle Disconnector. I ask to see others. They're all the same he says over and over. When I insist he humor me he digs out another from a different part of the tool chest: it is thicker, hardened, and accurately machined. "Since they're all the same I'll take this one," and I turned and left. Alchy POS -- and I know him. Check that: KNEW him!

This guy at a gun show on Sunday tried to sell me a PPs-43 sling as a sling for a Mosin M44. Not too crazy a lie, I guess, but he kept insisting even after I pointed out the proper sling on his table and told him why the PPs sling wouldn't fit.

Not really a lie, but some of the worst opinion/advice I got years ago (around 1996?) from a dealer was that those "Russkie Makarov" pistols were plain junk, not accurate, just not worth dealing with (and at the price back then of around $125). And, being a younger man, new to collecting firearms, I actually listened.

Now, 15-16 years later, I've finally been been by the Makarov bug.

I was at a gun show when a friend pointed out a wakizashi (short samurai sword) blade on one of the tables.

The seller had taken coarse-grit sandpaper (or a grinder) to the entire blade, including the tang (which should never be polished or cleaned in any way even if there is no signature), leaving none of the original surface. :cuss:

I told my friend I wasn't interested as the ruined blade would be almost impossible to get properly polished and even if it were possible, the cost would likely be far more than the blade was worth anyway. (This was decades ago when the only qualified sword polishers were in Japan and the Japanese laws were stricter on importation of blades. The process takes weeks for a master craftsman and costs like it.)

The seller said, "Oh, I have a buddy who can buff it right up good as new!" :banghead:

I said sadly, "No, that blade is ruined and worthless."

He then said, "Well, would you take it for free?"

Not taking the bait, I answered, "No. It would just irritate me to have something so ruined and worthless that I can't get fixed."

I had a dealer offer me $250 for a NIB S&W M29 no dash four screw. He said since it was so old, it wasn't worth as much. He didn't even crack a smile when he said it. Quite the poker face.

A guy at a pawn show told me yesterday that the trigger lock had to be installed on the gun before it could leave the store. I told him i had never heard that before and asked if it was a special law just for pawn shops. He said, No, every FFL is required by law. Since when says I..... It's been in place at lease 2 years.......:scrutiny:

newbuckeye A guy at a pawn show told me yesterday that the trigger lock had to be installed on the gun before it could leave the store. I told him i had never heard that before and asked if it was a special law just for pawn shops. He said, No, every FFL is required by law. Since when says I..... It's been in place at lease 2 years.......
He's nearly correct.
Child Safety Lock Act of 2005 has been in effect since April 2006:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/042106-openletter-ffl-child-safety-locks.html
The law doesn't require the lock or secure storage device to be installed, but provided.

He's nearly correct.
Child Safety Lock Act of 2005 has been in effect since April 2006:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/042106-openletter-ffl-child-safety-locks.html
The law doesn't require the lock or secure storage device to be installed, but provided.

He said it had to be LOCKED IN PLACE ON THE TRIGGER or he would void the sale. I know they have to be PROVIDED.

When I was gun-shopping, a gun seller looked at me and pointed me over to a pink .22 pistol (I'm a woman), he said, "this is what ALL women should carry." I laughed, and bought a 9mm somewhere else instead.

Biggest lie I ever told a DEALER was 'thanks but I don't need any more rifles.' HAHA boy was I young and naive. Nowadays there's not much I don't look at and think 'boy I could really use one of those.' :)

Was at a gunshow this weekend with the ladyfriend. Vendor had a number of M1 Garands for sale, and a number of the new plastic cases that they ship in for sale as well (good price $20 each). Two of the guns were well above average in appearance and were marked over $1,200. Herself wanted to look at the nicer one and asked how his compare to CMP Garands, specifically the "Special" grade she has been looking at. His reply was that the CMP guns were all used parts, and did not have new barrels. She asked again about the rebuilt ones that had new stocks, etc. Again he said that none of them had new barrels, and because his did they were far superior. She looked at me, grunted, and walked off. It was obvious that the guy was extremely familiar with the CMP, and was trying to profit off using them as his supplier. She was well aware that the $995 guns that are in the "Special" grade all have new finishes, new stocks and new barrels, but wanted to see if the guy was being honest with her. (He would have had a sale on both the cases if he had been truthful with us.)

*Auctioneer holds up No1mkIII* "British Lee-Enfield, real nice shape. It's got that Mauser action on it. Deer season's coming up; make a great deer rifle."

-The rifle in question was badly bubba'd, the bore was blocked with rust, and the action was so rusty it wouldn't close.

Another auction, I had several people tell me that a nicely sporterized No4mk2 was "broken" because the bolt wouldn't turn.

-The cocking piece was at half-cock.

"only safe way to carry a 1911 is hammer down" saying this about the gun on his hip
"claiming a 22 romanian trainer was a surplus USMC scout sniper precision target training rifle"

also had a guy at academy that when I asked for the tika rifle, he handed me a remington 870, saying to me they "all looked the same"

That the bent barrel on my 03-A3 Springfield wasn't bent.

Wow VERY entertaining and funny thread. What I find even funnier is some of the poster's who think they are "calling out" a gun shop on something they believe is wrong are actually the one's who are wrong on the specific story. C'mon guys, do your homework before you try to bash on someone else. :)

Not sure if it was lie or just ignorance, but:

Went to some local gun stores last year when one of my friends started looking for a rifle. In one of the stores i saw a thumbhole stock and a POSP scope peeking at me from the back of a shelf, and asked about it.
"It's a Dragunov," he says.
"A REAL Dragunov?" I ask.
"Yep. 1200 bucks," He replies.
Smells fishy, so i ask to handle it. He hands it to me, and i see it's actually a PSL variant, clearly marked Romak-3. I point this out to him, tell him a Dragunov uses a whole different action, and would be worth several thousand dollars more. He states he didn't know that. Tell him 1200 is a LITTLE much for a PSL, ask if he'd go down to 950. He offers 1150. I thank him for his time.

Didn't really want the rifle, my buddy REALLY did, but had no idea what it's value was, and i figured i'd try to help him out. Lol.