[Leaky Waders]

Hi,

A friend of mine was looking to purchase a reliable shotgun for home defense and possible duck hunting next season. He really didn't have much experience with various shotgun manufacturer's and actions.

So after looking over a few shotguns on various racks, and some from privately owned people - he decided on an 3 1/2" 870 express.

I dind't want to bias him too much when he was making his decision...but once he made it I told him about the 870 and how well it was made, durable, great for hunting, nice collection of aftermarket accessories etc.

So, today we took it to the range. It's a fancy single shot. One shot and the forearm is frozen and can't be slid backwards. It takes a dowel rod down the barrel (after removal from the forearm) to eject the empty hull. We tried multiple times with various shells - all 2 and 3/4 some low some high brass - still the same result.

The gun will shuck unfired shells all day long. There doesnt seem to be any burr in the chamber or obvious flaw when felt or looked at. It's just weird.

The dealer is going to look at the gun early next week and see what's wrong with it. Any ideas? Anyone every have this happen to them before? I haven't and I've owned a few 870's - both express and wingmaster models.

L.W.

[JImbothefiveth]

I've occasionally had something like this happen to me, where it wouldn't cycle. If I stiopped trying, then tried to cycle again, and tried really hard, it would cycle. It did this mostly with high-recoil rounds like buckshot.

I think it might have just been me, because it didn't happen when other people shot the gun.

Still, it took more effort than if I shot #7 target rounds.

[Snarlingiron]

1. Did you clean it first per the manual?
2. Are you shooting Winchester bulk ammo?

1 speaks for itself. 2 has been reported numerous times on this and other boards. I have experienced it myself. If you are using Winchester, try some Remington or Federal. And lastly, you may have to do the chamber polish with 0000 steel wool, dowel rod, and battery drill.

You were right about the Remington 870, it is an excellent shotgun that will outlast your friends grandkids.

[havoc7usmc]

I had a real strange one with a 870 with similar symptoms. It was the RS shell latch/stop jumping out of the guide groove and blocking the next shell from leaving the mag and stopping the action. The shell stop was actually thinner then it was supposed to be and would stick out far enough that the action bar would not push it back against the receiver and not let the next round enter the breech. Replaced it and it's never failed since....or maybe I fixed something I didn't see?.

Semper Fi.

[JWF III]

Did your friend buy it new or used?

It very well could have not been put together right the last time it was taken down. If the trigger group was removed and replaced wrong, it could have that effect. The action bar can get over (or under-can't remember which without looking) the action release lever. This could cause this sort of problem.

I'm not sure of any technical part names, but I'll try to describe something you/he can check.

On the action bar (bars that slide into the action to work it), the one on the right(?-depends on how you're looking at it) side locks into the disconnector(?-the button that you push to shuck out live shells). It is possible to reinstall the trigger group where those 2 parts are in a bind. When this is done, the action will work all day long holding the button. But when fired the lever(?) in the trigger group that removes pressure from the action bar will not "disconnect".

I know that I didn't do a good job of describing what's (maybe) going on. If you hold the (empty) gun upside down, with the action closed, you can see where I'm talking about. Push the loading gate all the way down and look on the side with the bolt release lever. Push the lever a few times and you'll be able to see the end of it move. The piece of metal, right in front (towards the barrel) of it is the action bar. With the action closed and the hammer cocked, the action bar will be locked by this lever. Push the lever and it'll unlock. Close the bolt back. Dry fire the gun. The lever should be "disconnected" so that you can't move it with your finger, but the action bar should be free to move. Have your friend give this a try. If it locks up after dry firing, then something's not together right.

Report back with any finds, I'll be willing to get my 870 out and look at it to describe it better tomorrow.

Wyman


ETA-I spent too much time typing. havoc7usmc (post #4) is describing the same thing I am trying to describe.

[Leaky Waders]

Answers to some questions...

I'm not sure if he cleaned the gun or not...it looked as if it were clean. It wasn't coated in cosmoline. The barrel and reciever seemed clean. But's its an 870. If there were a little oil in the receiver I don't think that would make much of a difference. In the past, we used these guns for duck hunting because they were cheap and took some mud without causing big problems.

I know that he read the manual.

The shells used were initially the winchester bulk 2 3/4's in like #7. But after taking the barrel off a few times and knocking out the hull we used some federals #6 in low and high brass - no difference.

On the cheap winchester hulls, the extractor looks like it has actually ripped part of the lip of the metal part of the hull off. Didn't see this on the brass based hulls.

The gun is brand new.

[Snarlingiron]

Well, you won't find these things dripping with cosmoline like you sometimes see old military rifles. In fact, the gun will look just fine, just as you describe. However, when you start to clean them you will find your cleaning materials look like they are covered with rust. Remington puts some sort of anti corrosion stuff on these guns, and it is sticky and nasty. It's not like oil at all. More of a tar like substance. I suspect it may actually be some sort of thinned down asphaltum. Not saying it was or wasn't cleaned, just relating my experience with a couple of new 870 Express's.

Some of the new 870's also seem to have a somewhat rough chamber. Sounds like the chamber buff would be the next step. It would be my next step.

The torn shell rim is actually a good sign. It means that the problem is isolated to the chamber. The extractor is obviously doing its job, the shell is just stuck in there really tight.

I wish him good luck, it shouldn't be a difficult problem to remedy.

[Gord]

Snarlingiron got it all on the first response to your OP; try everything he said, and let us know if your buddy still has a problem.

[Gord]

Right, but it's going to do absolutely zero harm to give the gun a good cleaning and polish the chamber a bit, so what is there to disagree with? I never said it would be a guaranteed fix, but it's a good place to start. Once shipping grease and a rough chamber are ruled out, we can move on to the next set of potential culprits if necessary.

[peetee32]

my 870 has the same problem, with one barrel and not another.

bought a BARELY used 870 package gun with 26" skeet barrel and rifled 20" deer barrel. traded the deer barrel for a used smooth 20" for home defense

took my new to me shotgun out, fail to eject on almost every other shell with the 26" barrel. had to really force the used shells out tried several types of ammo (birdshot, slugs, buck) from several different brands (winchester, cheap walmart bulk etc) same thing every time. a few guys i was with tried also...(in case i was doing something wrong...) they all had the same problem. no problems ejecting unfired shells

swapped to the well used but well cared for 20" barrel i got in trade, and no problems what so ever.

after researching this alot on the net (google 870 fail to eject) it seems to be very common, and people suggest using something called a brake hone? to polish the inside of the barrel, or a cleaning brush wrapped in steel wool soaked with remoil and give it a spin with a power drill to clean up the barrel. the expanding brass fits into imperfections in the barrel and locks it up?

i would first try to swap barrels with someone else, see what happens.

there is something about that sick feeling you get in your stomach when you expect a gun to operate a certain way, and it doesn't.

[jlv08]

First of all, this anomaly is indicative of a quality control problem at the factory,IMHO. I would send the gun to Remington and make THEM fix the problem.

Any one who spends good money for a shotgun with a name known for quality should get what he pays for. This does not relieve the owner from proving the gun in order to be able to rely on the gun to deliver when needed.

I would be, IMHO,wary of doing work that could possibly void the warrantee as this would add to the sick feeling one gets when trying to get something to work like it is supposed to.

[peetee32]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3fhJRTPmTs

this is what happens when the 870 fails to eject

[therealdoublel]

my friend had this happen to his 870 3 and 1/2 gun, new, sent it off to remington for a repair and i belive he told me they deburred the chamber or something, works alot better now, he was shooting estate trap loads mostly. i bought a new 870 mag, 3 inch gun and had no problems with trap loads, i reload using double A's, only had my gun jam while shooting cheap Fiocci duck loads.

[rbernie]

The issue is caused by a rough chamber combined with borderline-to-out-of-spec hull bases. It's a well known issue, altho it usually manifests itself predominantly with the cheap Win bulk pack ammo and not the others.

You can certainly send the gun back to Remington. It is new and they should make it right.

I bought all my 870 Express shotguns used, so (given no warranty coverage) I used a brake cyliner hone chucked up in my cordless drill to polish the chambers myself.

[ndh87]

I had the same thing happen using wally world 100 round packs winchester i think. My cheap beater mossberg maverick ran them with no problems though

P.S. i dont own an 870 anymore. Do have 2 mossbergs though.

[rodregier]

Wally World bulk Federals mfgr a few years ago gave my 870 Express extraction issues even after polishing the chamber. That same ammunition didn't give any problems in two other non-Remington pump-action shotguns.

Other non-bulk pack Federal ammunition extracted just fine in the Rem 870 Express.

[Hungry Seagull]

One of my federals did not want to get out of the gun on my shoot video and I managed to force it out. That would be the second shot of the 870 series of 5.

I wonder if it has to do with the brass or base of the shells? Perhaps a inferior metal is used for civilian consumption?

I would occasionally use safety caps which are slugs of metal with a dryfire nipple and completely inert. I am surprised sometimes by the way the guns would tear through the factory paint coating and get into the metal underneath as they cycle through the magazine to the chamber and out.

It happened to be the moment I decided to ship the gun to the armorer and have it torn down/cleaned.

These were the 5 packs and I have not had trouble with either the 5 pack winchester or 5 pack remington. I dont know yet about Brennekes.

These were the 2.75 inch ammo, not the super long three inch or even the 3.5's mentioned here.

The other poster who linked the video of the failed 870 eject, that was frightening to me to see the human thought process followed by the behavior including banging the gun on the ground. That was gripping stuff to me.

I say this.

If a gun of any kind malfunctions, cease fire, engage safety, clear the chamber, empty the magazine and dont use it again until YOU find the problem or the gunsmith does.

That's just me. That is one reason why we have several weapons so that one can be "Down" for repairs etc and not affect the home defense posture.

[spyder1911]

My 870 doesn't seem to like the cheap steel based trap loads, but after a few 100 rounds it is getting to be much easier.

[jonc]

my 870 won't shoot the cheap bulk pack stuff. Kinda dissapointing

[Waywatcher]

In ammunition, you get what you pay for.

Garbage in-->garbage out.

Fortunately, quality ammo is very cheap. $15 per 50 is a bargain in the big scheme of things.

[30.06]

Quality control :(

America is not what it used to be . :mad:

Oh , a return to a simpler time , when sanity prevailed ....:uhoh: , but first we have to .....

[pmbiker]

When new, my 870ex had no problems with any domestic ammo. I did have the sticky extraction issue with some S&B 00Buck loads that I have. I did the chamber polish with 0000 steel wool, a cleaning rod and a cordless drill. It runs everything now.

[Leaky Waders]

OK, so the gun came back from Remington and they said that there was a burr in the chamber that they polished out.

The gun shoots everything now.

So all is well.

I don't buy the debate of 'cheap shotgun shells' make a supposedly icon of reliability finnicky.

If shotgun shells...not reloaded ones that could be geeked up for a variety of reasons...cannot be reliably shucked from a pump; then it's a problem in the gun. Not the hull.

I can see some shells not cycling an automatic correctly, due to the action requiring some specific amount of inertia, but a pump should cycle everything. As should an O/U, SxS, single shot.

Later,

L.W.

[jakemccoy]

That's interesting about Federal. I have some Federal Premium rifled slugs for part of my home defense stash. I'll have to shoot this ammo a bit more to test it out.

[Hungry Seagull]

Gonna fire me some Brennekes soon, see how they do on my 870.

Looking forward to it.

[augustino]

I've heard issues reported lately with regards to the 870 which is and has been for the longest time an icon when it comes to HD. I've never owned one myself, I do own a Winchester 1300 Defender and have never had any issues with it.
But polishing and starting at "ground zero" sounds like a logical way to figure this out. And as another poster stated a light polishing can't hurt anything. Then use the process of elimination and continue ruling out until you arrive at a fix. Good luck!

[fuelie777]

I bought a new 870 expess about 12 weeks or so ago. It had the known extraction issues described many times on this forum. I throughly cleaned it and did remove the inside coating used for rust prevention. I called Remmington for warranty work. I could send it to one of their warranty centers and they would polish the chamber, but I would have to pay for shipping. I had measured an earlier wingmaster 870 and the chamber was .001" in diameter larger and ran all ammo through it. So I used the advice from this forum, polished the chamber with a brake hone and then with steel wool. Now the shotgun runs like a champ. If I was not mechanically inclined, I would have to send it back. My only issue is that this should not ever happen. I will think twice before I buy Remmington again.

[Virginian]

If you had read these threads from 30 weeks ago you would have known about it before you bought it.

[hometheaterman]

Yes having had a 870 express super magnum the best advice I can offer is to try and get your money back. I've never had or even shot any other gun that jams as much as that one did. I also had issues with shells sticking like you all were having. The fix is to polish the chamber. A gunsmith did it for me for $5. It did fix the issue with the shells sticking However the gun would often randomly jam. This still happened quite a bit. Sometimes it would try to send two shells into the chamber sometimes it would stovepipe. Just random stuff as it was a different sort of jam each time. I for sure would not trust it for a home defense gun. I also will seriously think twice before ever buying a new Remington again. There is no excuse why a brand new $350 gun should have any issues right out of the box. I will say the super mags get a lot of bad reviews for this stuff so had he done research he would have seen this.