CCI Blazer Exploding Casings?


PDA






NewShooter78
September 30, 2003, 01:22 PM
Well I was out exploring my new town, and I went to a range that a fellow THR member suggested. So I was asking them all the usual questions, and I was told that no CCI Blazer ammo was allowed on their range. I was told they didn't allow it because of casings exploding. Now I have been shooting Blazer ammo for a while and haven't had any major problems with it. I know that it can't be reloaded, so I'm wondering if this has anything to do with their banning of the ammo at their range. This place is also the local LEO range I beleive so maybe they are worried about Glock KB issues?

So have any of you had problems with this ammo? I just bought a couple of boxes of it today, but won't be able to use it there, but I will go back because it is a really nice range.

If you enjoyed reading about "CCI Blazer Exploding Casings?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ruger357
September 30, 2003, 01:35 PM
Never had any problems with the ones I used, .45's, .357's, .38's, .25's.

meathammer
September 30, 2003, 02:18 PM
I never had any problem with CCI Blazers in .45 auto or .44 magnum.

RWK
September 30, 2003, 02:49 PM
Have shot LOTS of their .45 Colt, without problems.

dawg23
September 30, 2003, 02:54 PM
Newshooter:

1. There is no danger of the CCI Blazer cases rupturing or "exploding."

2. There is a danger that the range owner would rather lie to you than tell you the real reason.

3. The REAL REASON is that the range owner can sell the brass that shooters leave behind. He can sort out the steel cases (Wolf, etc) with magnets. But he can't cull the aluminum Blazer cases.

4. I don't dispute the owner's right to restrict any ammo he chooses. I've been to two ranges that did the same thing on Blazer (one in Houston and one in Friendswood, TX). You, of course, have the right to shoot elsewhere - which is what I choose to do when a range tells me that Blazer is "unsafe" or is "too dirty for their filtration system" (that one really was funny since that guy would try to make people buy UMC ammo from him).

5. I can buy Blazer 9mm ammo for $4.90 per box of 50. And I've bought it as cheaply as $3.99/ box on sale at Oshmann's in Houston in the past 4 months. It is much more reliable than the Winchester white box ammo, and is of course cheaper.

6. I favor letting the range owner know that he won't enjoy my business if he bans Blazer ammo.:neener:

Edited to add: I shoot about 12,000-15,000 rounds of Blazer every year (in Glocks) in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45ACP. Statistically this isn't too relevant, but anecdotally it points out the fallacy of the "exploding case" excuse.

rajaniblue
September 30, 2003, 03:06 PM
I use lots and lots of 9mm CCI Blazer ammo.

I really like it. Never a problem.

Hmmm.... The previous poster has an interesting theory about the range being able to sell brass casings, which CCI doesn't have.... seems quite plausible to me. I wouldn't doubt it in the least.

Pumpkinheaver
September 30, 2003, 03:25 PM
Never has aproblem with it in 9mm or .45acp.

Double Naught Spy
September 30, 2003, 04:30 PM
In 1911s, I have shot approximately 40K of Blazer with no exploding casings and have never heard or seen one explode. The only problems that might occur would be with unsupported chambers as in Glocks. Then again, they seem to 'explode' with whatever ammo is being used, but the fault is not with the ammo.

RustyHammer
September 30, 2003, 04:51 PM
:cuss:

I've shot thousands of rounds of CCI Blazer in many different calibers (45 ACP, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .357 Mag, .38 Special, etc.) and never had a problem of the case splitting.

I have had some difficulty in certain revolvers with the .38 & .357 cartridges expanding slightly and being difficult to eject.

I suspect that dawg23 is onto the REAL reason. Just wish they'd come out and say it and knock-off all of the B.S.

Lock and load.

Rusty

Car Knocker
September 30, 2003, 05:03 PM
I'm sure CCI's lawyers would be interested in the slander of their product by this range.

Sean Smith
September 30, 2003, 05:57 PM
An indoor range I shoot at doesn't allow Blazer either. They claim it is for environmental reasons. :rolleyes:

BluesBear
September 30, 2003, 06:48 PM
I also refuse to shoot at a range where I am not allowed to keep my own empty casings.

I went to a range once where I was very rudely informed that I had to buy their ammo, shoot only their ammo and had to leave all fired brass behind.
Their range ammo was priced about the same as Wally World.

I asked if lead bullets were ok, he said "Sure, got some right here."

I asked about shooting my .44-40 and he said "Nope, we don't carry ammo for it."

I asked the guy about shooting carry ammo such as Hydra Shoks or Gold Dots ahd he said "Sure, I've got plenty right over here." And sure enough he had plenty, at about 10% over full retail.

I then asked him what I was supposed to do with the range ammo if I didn't shoot all of it and he said "It's yours, take it home with you."

So I bought 10 boxes and left. :evil:

WhoKnowsWho
September 30, 2003, 07:22 PM
BluesBear: Perfect solution! :D

dawg23
September 30, 2003, 08:04 PM
[i]Quote from Sean Smith: "An indoor range I shoot at doesn't allow Blazer either. They claim it is for environmental reasons."




It is for environmental reasons. They want to recycle your brass.:D

mgjohn
September 30, 2003, 08:32 PM
Yes Blazer casings will split and come apart. I had some 38 special ammo split and flash burn the chambers of a S&W 38 snub nose. I called CCI about it and was told that if the ammo has been wet/damp the cases will start to break down. CCI had a new cylinder put in my revolver.

Preacherman
September 30, 2003, 10:31 PM
Interesting snippet of information about Blazers... I love the ammo, and shoot thousands of rounds of it every year. However, when doing LFI-3 with Massad Ayoob, I (and others on the course) were told we could not use Blazer ammo in the full-auto weapons we were loaned for part of the course. Apparently it can't take the slamming full-auto bolt impact, and splits in the guns. Only brass-cased ammo was allowed for full-auto use.

Didn't bother me, and in handguns, I continue to use Blazer with great success.

AR-10
September 30, 2003, 11:06 PM
I had an experience similar to that of mgjohn.

A 44 Magnum round split near the base and burned one of the chambers on my Super Redhawk.

I still shoot some Blazer 44Mag and 44Special, but not in anything but the SRH.

Standing Wolf
September 30, 2003, 11:56 PM
Blazer .357 rounds catch in the cylinder of one of my Pythons: the case head edges are too rough for the close tolerances.

NewShooter78
October 1, 2003, 01:31 AM
One of the other things that sucks about the whole thing about this range is that their membership, if you choose to become a member (its optional), is $100. Or you can just pay $15 everytime you go there. It really is a nice indoor range, but I really don't like being told not to use a certain kind of ammo. Especially if its because the range can't make a buck off of it. If they were just honest about not being able to sell the brass, I'd be less put off by it.

There is another range I'm going to go check out, but before I make the trip I'll be calling to see if there is any ammo restriction!I

foghornl
October 1, 2003, 08:23 AM
Not a fan of Blazer, but I have shot some in .38Spl, .357Mag, and .45ACP. No issues with any of it.

The .357 Blazer did live up to its name in my short-barrel 'Sheriff's Model' Vaquero...lotza muzzle flash.

caz223
October 1, 2003, 09:09 AM
I had exactly one 9mm case split in all the nine that I've shot over the years.
It was a blazer.
Is there merit to it?
Probably.
Epidemic?
No.
Is that why they are doing it?
Well.....No.
They want your brass.

Detritus
October 2, 2003, 05:02 AM
I've been to two ranges that did the same thing on Blazer (one in Houston and one in Friendswood, TX).

I know who you're talking about in friendswood, been there ONCE, luckily the next week i got a letter from the local outdoor range (greenwood gunclub in Brazoria) that's 20 mins from my house saying i'd been accepted for membership. but even if i hadn't i'd have never gone back there..... the slightly younger "good-ole-boy" (if you met/saw him you'd under stand why i say that) that worked there was alright, but the owner was a right a true prig.... seemed pissed that two fo the three guns i brought were .22s and that i was keeping my brass for the third.

what was the other place in houston that didn't allow Blazers??

TheeBadOne
October 2, 2003, 06:22 AM
If the cops shoot there maybe some MP5's are used. There is an issue with Blazers and MP5's due to the MP5's unique chamber. The Blaser cases stretch when fired and can cause sticking/jaming in the tube. Maybe someone took this as "exploding" cases? :confused:

dawg23
October 2, 2003, 09:24 AM
Detrititus:

I don't remember the name of the place (this was two years ago when I was visiting a friens who lives in Houston).

It was on the west side of Houston, on or near Westheimer. It has a large retail area and offers CCW classes on a regular basis. The range itself has about 14-16 lanes divided into two bays.

Jesse H
October 2, 2003, 01:54 PM
American Shooting Centers?

They have signs up that say no Blazers but I still shoot it.

Keith
October 2, 2003, 02:43 PM
I was scratching my head about this one until I read this:

The REAL REASON is that the range owner can sell the brass that shooters leave behind. He can sort out the steel cases (Wolf, etc) with magnets. But he can't cull the aluminum Blazer cases.

Bingo!

Keith

Esky
October 3, 2003, 10:33 PM
Glad to hear that almost everybody that's posted has had no problems with Blazer ammo, and I sure like its price, but I have had trouble with it in my new CZ 75B in 9mm.

I couldn't make it through a magazine without getting a case hung up in the chamber. Eventually I went through 4 boxes of Blazer, all that I'd bought, but it was a real hassle. Each time I had to drop the mag, action the slide & then I'd get the spent casing out, usually along with an unfired round. Didn't have any problems with the cases splitting, though, and I didn't have any misfires or duds.

This problem didn't happen with any other ammo I've tried, including Magtech, Winchester & the range-reloaded stuff, and now I'm going to try out some Fiocchi and some Sellier & Bellot. (The S & B was actually recommended in my CZ manual.) I do hope they both work, as I got 500 rounds of each! Earlier, I'd ordered 1000 rounds of Wolf 9mm online, for a real good price; and I got it on the day I could pick up my new gun (this is **********, so I had to wait 10 days) but I haven't been able to try it out yet. The Wolf has steel cartridges, but I was assured by the people at Turner's Outdoors that it's good ammo, though they did say that it couldn't be reloaded because it doesn't stretch like brass does.

My nearest range, the Iron Sights, doesn't have any problem with Blazer, and I've fired a lot of it (mostly .38 Sp) there in my Taurus wheelgun without any problems. But the range won't let me use the Wolf 9mm, they have a sign at the entrance asking that you leave any Wolf ammo in your car. I asked about this, and I was told that the Wolf ammo had caused injury at the range- that some rounds had "exploded"- but I don't know how it was supposed to have happened. (It was really busy there at the time, and I just wanted to shoot my new gun, so I didn't go into details.) They were adamant about this restriction, and insisted on looking in my gun bag to see what ammo I was going to use.

I still expect to try out the Wolf, but have to find someplace that'll let me shoot it that isn't too far away. I don't know of a lot of ranges around here (Carlsbad, CA) so would welcome any suggestions.

And if anyone can give me any good reason why I shouldn't shoot the Wolf ammo, I'd really appreciate it! I do plan to be real careful, anyway....

Esky
NRA Life Member

Valkman
October 4, 2003, 04:18 AM
Even though I suspect that the real reason is so that they don't have to pick it out of the brass, I had a .357 case split on me long ago and haven't used Blazer since. I've seen ranges do this before and it was not for safety reasons - it just causes them alot of work!

peteinct
October 5, 2003, 09:09 AM
Hi Esky, Your 75b will love S+B ammo. I use it exclusivly for mine. It is close enogh to Winchester white box in price but I think it shoots better. It hit 2 inches higher at 15 yards than some Federal ammo I had. I buy it from www. natchezss.com by the case. It just seems to have more pop to it.
pete

mummac
October 5, 2003, 10:17 AM
I'm a member of a range simply because it's two miles from my house. They don't allow Blazers and will flat out tell you it's because they can't reload them and they have to be cleared out of the brass-seperator machine by hand. It really peeved me at first but the range is so close I deal with it.

Lennyjoe
October 5, 2003, 11:51 AM
Only time I shot blazer was when a buddy gave me some left over .357 rounds.

I shot 6 out of my S&W 686 and one of the rounds blew a hole out the side of the casing bout half way up. It scored the cylinder and I wasnt happy about it.

Im sure alot of folks have used it with no problems but I wont use it again just because I dont trust it. Anyway, would rather spend a buck or two and shoot reloadable brass.

Expecially now since Im getting into reloading;)

Dean Speir
October 6, 2003, 02:09 AM
 

…there's been a similar thread over on KTOG's Carbine Forum (http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5396) where the resident X-purt ("Flyer") can't quite seem to get his story straight.

I was very interested in this issue as I've been happily using CCI Blazer for 20 years or so, and with the exception of some ignition problems with the early ]Cleanfire rounds, I've never had any problems with the stuff in 9 X 19mm, .45 ACP or .357 Magnum.

I asked one of CCI-Speer/ATK's engineers about this case expansion/rupture issue, referred him to that thread, and he responded:Blazer can pull apart, not rupture, in blowback rifles that have very rough chambers. (I haven't seen this in a pistol.)

We had a test gun several years ago that, in absolutely new condition, presented a chamber that looked as if it were made with a corn cob. If you bend a paper clip in a small "7" shape, and dragged same forward and rearward, a distinct sound could be felt and heard. This firearm, built by one of the big three, remains a test case for ripping Blazer 40s apart (Sort of a litmus test). I'll be checking with two other Tech Services guys at CCI-Speer/ATK this week on this as well.

Jayman
October 6, 2003, 04:01 PM
Add me to the list of people that have been shooting thousands of rounds of CCI/Blazer with no problem. I've been shooting it in both my Glocks. I have a friend with a HK that shoots it as well, also no problems.

Have two friends:

1. Kimber user
2. CZ user

Both of them seem to have extraction problems. I think those guns have tighter chambers than the Glock and HK USP, but have not measured to find out for sure, so that's just my working theory.

NewShooter78
October 6, 2003, 10:35 PM
and its my own thread...
But what if one of the guys that work at the range had a problem with Blazer in say a wheel gun, since that's where the problems mentioned here seem to be, and the range owner just decides to totally ban the ammo for fear of legal issues? I could probably buy that, but am pretty sure its for reloading issues. A few ranges back home tolerated Blazer, but made it clear that they reloaded or sold the used brass from their ranges. The one range I belonged to in New Orleans even made you sweep up your own brass so they could sort throuht it easier! :rolleyes: But it was a pretty crappy range anyway. Maybe I can talk to the owner of the range when I'm in there next and find out from the horse's mouth exactly why they have the ban.

JCM298
October 6, 2003, 11:04 PM
I worked at a range for two years after I retired and all calibers of Blazers were used. I never heard of a problem other than clean up. Most shooters picked up their own casings because most were reloading. The Blazers were left behind but we periodically cleaned up the casings on "clean up days".

John

thisaway
October 7, 2003, 06:19 PM
I have fired thousands of 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 Blazers over the past 10 years and have had only ONE bad experience. I had a .45 "squib load" in my S&W 25-2. The case split about halfway from the mouth to the base of the hull and drove the bullet about 2-3 inches into the barrel (6.5-inch). Unlike a few of the folks here, though, my cylinder was not scored. I still have the bullet & hull as safety reminders.

dawg23
October 7, 2003, 07:49 PM
Detritus wrote: "What was the other place in houston that didn't allow Blazers??"


I started to say that it was Top Gun in Houston, but wasn't sure. After reading your PM, I am sure that it was Top Gun.

The desk clerk (who appeared to be the owner, since he was the guy opening up the range that morning) was very arrogant and very condescending. I would have politely walked out and found another range, but the friend who was with me only had a little time that day for shooting, so we stayed.

GSB
October 7, 2003, 09:17 PM
I've shot thousands of the things with no problem at all. I should mention that this was with .45 ACP, and I note that where people are finding problems is with higher pressure calibers.

another okie
October 7, 2003, 10:00 PM
No problem with thousands and thousands of 9mm and 45, but like the others I have no experience with subguns or the high pressure .357. My range doesn't care what you shoot, but does ask you not to shoot Blazer in their MP-5 and other 9mm full autos, so maybe there's something to it. I hear guys at IPSC and IDPA bad mouthing Blazer all the time, but I think it's because they are used to getting free brass at the range from the guys who don't reload. Almost all the jams and failures I see at IPSC and IDPA matches are reloads.

wardog
October 11, 2003, 01:07 AM
I've never had a problem with Blazer. I just bought 2000 rounds of 9mm from Natchez for $4.59/box.

I ordered it shipped to my house along with a bunch of other calibers. They mistakenly shipped it to my work. (I had ordered some binoculars and had them shipped to my work.)

2750 rounds of ammo delivered at work. I'm really lucky none of the bleeding heart anti-gun liberals saw that!! Could have been a major problem for me.

stevelyn
October 11, 2003, 09:56 AM
My department uses CCI Blazer in our G-22s and 23s without any problems.

wardog
October 11, 2003, 11:27 PM
Esky,

What Turner's do you go to? Back when I lived in Carlsbad I don't remember any near there.

I used to shoot at Shooters Emporium in Escondido. I don't know if they are still in business or not.

Ever go to B $ B Sales in Westminster (near Huntington Beach)? That was the best gun store ever. I don't know if it's still there either.

Esky
October 14, 2003, 01:47 AM
Wardog,

I live in Carlsbad, but work in San Marcos... and the Turner's I go to is just off Nordahl Road & Hwy 78. The address is 2085 Montiel Rd. #104, San Marcos CA 92069. It's a pretty good store, with lots to drool over, and the staff are friendly & helpful. They also have some used guns.

They also were selling Wolf 9mm for $3.99/box, but they don't want me to shoot it at the range I went to off Hwy. 76, called Iron Sights. They also have Blazer, I think it was around $7, still cheaper than most but like I said earlier, it won't feed right in my new CZ75b. Which is really a lot of fun to shoot, when I'm using any other ammo!

And thanks for the tips- I'll check out Escondido & Westminster, & hope they're still there.

Esky

Greybeard
October 15, 2003, 08:50 AM
An indoor range operator here. Steel and alum. cases can be a PIA since, eventually, SOMEONE needs to separate. With everyone at our place being expected to police their own non-downrage brass, the solution has been to keep specially marked containers for the stuff in the firing room. Then it goes into 5-gallon buckets, then to the recycler - for peanut money.

At least Oshmans and Academy here sell the 9mm Blaser consistently for around $4 a box. It seems to run fine in semis that are not extremely "tight". I have only seen one major problem with it - a live round lodged quite firmly about 3/4 way into chamber of a .25 "Baby Browning" - a gun that runs fine with other ammos.

But ... the Blaser stuff is indeed dirty burning. The folks who say they have never had a malfunction with their Glock may have just not shot enough of the Blaser. I can attest to the fact that around 30,000 rounds through a G17 without a "deep cleaning" CAN make the trigger go mushy and the gun NOT go "bang".

wardog
October 16, 2003, 11:36 PM
Esky,

I'll have to check out Turner's next time I'm back in CA. I know exactly where it is. Grew up just down the road from there in Bonsall. Lived in Carlsbad and Oceanside for a while too.

And yes, if you're ever up near Huntington Beach, you've got to check out B & B, if it's still there. Huge store, tons of guns, fantastic prices. You actually had to take a number to get service back then. I counted 26 sales people behind the counters at one point.

There's another shop not too far away from there too. Can't remember the name, "Gunroom" maybe? Anyway, tons more guns. Lots of collectable stuff. Engraved SAA's, Lugers, etc. Prices not too good, but a museum of fine guns.

dawg23
October 17, 2003, 12:49 AM
Greybeard wrote: " I can attest to the fact that around 30,000 rounds [of Blazer] through a G17 without a "deep cleaning" CAN make the trigger go mushy and the gun NOT go "bang".


OK. :confused:

If you enjoyed reading about "CCI Blazer Exploding Casings?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!