30-06 ammo for a Garand


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jedi
September 30, 2003, 01:29 PM
What types of new ammo are safe for the M1 Garand? Federal American Eagle 150grain?

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cslinger
September 30, 2003, 01:37 PM
It has to do with both bullet weight and the type of powder used.

I am not an expert but I am sure the experts will chime in soon enough but here is my take.

Most modern 30-06 hunting ammo uses a slower burning powder that creates higher pressures, especially with the heavy bullet weights 170 grains and up. This higher pressure can cause the operating rod to bend and therefore make the rifle inoperable.

Now apparently PMC makes a 150 grain modern load that approximates the GI M2 ball ammo just about perfectly. I have also heard from many people that keeping the bullet weight down to 150 grains should mitigate any problems. Apparently there is also an adjustable gas tube cap or bleed off valve of sorts that can be attached to the Garand. I am not completely aware of where to find or what this does.

Basically I have been told to use M2 spec surpluss ball first and foremost, modern loads that approximate the above that are 150 grains and nothing else unless I convert the gas tube to said above bleed off valve thing that I know very little about.

Sorry I haven't provided the best info but it's a start.

Currently the Danish ammo on clips is very good stuff as is the Korean PMC stuff in boxes and there seems to be quite a bit of both on the market right now.

My two cents take it for what it is worth. My guess is Eclancy could give you way more info than you could ever possibly digest in one sitting.

Chris

meathammer
September 30, 2003, 02:14 PM
Here is the device cslinger mentioned: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1538

I just installed one on my M1. Haven't made it to the range yet. If it works as suggested, should be able to shoot many different .30-06 loads out of my M1. I will give a range report when I try out the new gas cylinder plug.

The Federal American Eagle 150gr. works well. Some of the surplus PMC (already loaded in enblocs) seems to group all over the place. The Danish stuff is nice though.

Sunray
September 30, 2003, 02:32 PM
"What types of new ammo are safe for the M1 Garand Federal American Eagle 150grain?" What are you asking? There's no such critter as this. If you're asking is the Federal American Eagle 150 grain safe to use in my Garand then yes, it is.

Kestrel
September 30, 2003, 03:44 PM
Hmmm... I didn't realize you couldn't use just any .30-06 ammo in a Garand. So, I can't just pick a popular hunting round to use for hunting, target shooting, etc. without checking to see if it can safely be fired in it?

What are some examples of ammo that is not good to fire in them?

Is this also the case with M1As?

Thanks,
Steve

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI
October 1, 2003, 12:57 AM
PMC 30.06 Bronze Line shoots fine. Just about duplicates M2 Ball and can be had for about $200 a case of 500 shipped.

Swampy
October 1, 2003, 06:50 AM
SteveW13 wrote:

Hmmm... I didn't realize you couldn't use just any .30-06 ammo in a Garand. So, I can't just pick a popular hunting round to use for hunting, target shooting, etc. without checking to see if it can safely be fired in it?

Short answer..... NO !!!!

Shooting off the shelf commercial hunting loads in a Garand is a sure way to end up with a bent or broken op-rod.... in the extreme case, a cracked receiver heel. Bye-bye receiver.

The M1's ACTION is as strong as any... numerous endurance tests have proven that beyond doubt..... but the M1 has an Achilles heel... the gas system. The M1's gas system was designed to work within a very narrow spectrum of gas port pressure. The 30-06 M2 ball round was the ammo made to shoot in the M1. This load is made up of a 150 gr. fmj flat base bullet over military 4895 powder.

OF course, all USGI M2 ball is OK for use with the M1, as is any foreign milsurp '06 that is marked as being M2 spec. I've not tried the Korean, but reports on it are mixed. I've tried the Danish ammo.... GOOD STUFF..... accurate and clean.

As stated earlier, commercial hunting loads are designed to work best in long barreled turnbolt rifles.... using slow burning powders that will leave WAY too much residual pressure at the M1's gas port.

If you want to hunt with a Garand, you'd best handload....

The two main rules of loading for M1 Garands are as follows:

1) NEVER load with bullets HEAVIER than 180 grains
2) NEVER load with powders SLOWER than IMR-4320

Following these rules will keep you in the M1's "sweet spot" regarding gas port pressure.

Another course of action, also described earlier, is the use of an adjustable port gas cylinder screw. This replaces the GI gas cylinder screw and uses various sized ports that screw in & out. This will allow you to vent off excess gas port pressure in commercial hunting loads, thus saving your m1 from op-rod damage...

The only caveat with this system is that you must go through the "setup" procedure EACH TIME you change to a different commercial load, or even to a different lot number of the same load. Commercial hunting loads are seldom loaded with the same burn rate powder two lots running. As the burn rate of the powder being used changes, so will the the proper gas port screw for your M1 change.....

In light of this..... I'd suggest, when you find a hunting load you like, buy several boxes all of the same lot number....

Best regards to all,
Swampy

Garands forever....

Kestrel
October 1, 2003, 09:05 PM
Swampy,

Thanks for the info. Wow - what a dissappointment. I didn't know any of this. I have a nice GI Garand and also an absolutely mint Ron Smith Garand NM. I'm not sure I'll keep them. I really wanted something that was a lot more versatile in terms of ammo.

I'm sure the Garand is a super weapon, I just would like more ammo versatility.

Is my M1A as specific as to what ammo I can fire from it, too?

Thanks,
Steve

VG
October 1, 2003, 09:14 PM
If you get a bolt gun, you can fire just about anything from them.

The Garand doesn't have that much hunting ammo available unless you use the adjustable gas plug. Isn't spending $30 a better deal than spending upwards of $1,000 for an M1A?

To reiterate the excellent advice already offered, all the surplus M2 ball ammo, Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ boat tail, and the PMC Broncze line all shoot fine in a plain ole Garand.

bernie
October 1, 2003, 09:40 PM
The M1A is similarly sensitive, you need to replicate M80 ball. While this is important, it is not that difficult to find or reload ammo the the M1 and M14 rifles.

J Calhoun
October 1, 2003, 10:44 PM
I hunt with my Garand. I have pretty good luck with Remington 150gr pointed Core-Loks. I think most commercial .30-06 ammo in 150gr or lower will be acceptable.

If you want to shoot it a lot, buy the surplus ammo in clips. It's cheap and will work. Then you can go to the hunting ammo during season.

Or you can handload for it. I do that now and get very good results.

Barrelmaker
October 2, 2003, 12:10 AM
Be carefull with Federal American Eagle ammo or reloading using Federal primers. I had my garand slam fire twice in a afternoon shooting American Eagle ammo. I was later told that the primers are softer than Winchester or CCI primers therefor not recommended for garands or M1A type rifles.

Art Eatman
October 2, 2003, 08:30 AM
1. Test fire with GI-type ammo. Play with the sight adjustment to see how many clicks do what for your rifle, regardless of what movement a click is *supposed* to do. Write down this info so you don't forget it.

2. Fire a three-shot group with 150-grain commercial hunting ammo. You already know how many clicks you'd need to correct the point of impact. Shoot a couple more to double-check.

3. Go hunting.

A few rounds of commercial ammo won't hurt the op rod. It's the repeated hammering from many rounds that does the damage. How many is "Many"? I dunno.

:), Art

Swampy
October 2, 2003, 04:53 PM
SteveW13 wrote:


I'm sure the Garand is a super weapon, I just would like more ammo versatility.

Is my M1A as specific as to what ammo I can fire from it, too?

You are right... the M1 IS a "super weapon"... :D but like ANY military weapon (including the M1-A or M14), it's designed around a particular type of ammo. In this case, it's USGI spec M2 ball (M80 ball for the M14).

The versatility is there for us civilians, but you have to make allowances for the frailties of the M1's gas system. The adjustable port gas cylinder screw is a very viable way to do this. So is handloading. Personally, I handload just about everything I shoot, so following the "rules" for M1 loading is no big deal in the slightest. I own quite a few Garands, fired multiple thousands of rounds through them and have yet to fire a single round of commercially loaded ammo in any one.

Re the M1-A (M14).... YES, the same rules apply to it as for the M1... though admittedly we are talking a different animal here. While the M14 is a bit more forgiving as regards gas port pressure because it uses a "gas cutoff" piston design instead of the "direct impingement" design of the M1.... the sensitivity to heavy bullets and slow powders is still there. You are not going to gain a "shoot any ammo you want" rifle by going that route......

Just my ramblings....

Swampy

Garands forever

Topgun
October 2, 2003, 06:00 PM
OW! Hey! Ouch! Stop....eek...hey! Stop it! Ow.


:D

Maddogkiller
October 3, 2003, 02:31 AM
I made an adjustable gas system for my Garand. It is very simple and it has opened up a whole new world of shooting for this old warrior ( the rifle, not me)
Imagine a standard M 1 gas plug that has been drilled and tapped fore to aft through the center. An allen head set screw is screwed into the front of the hole just enough that it will stay in place during firing. "Tighten" the screw after each round is fired until the empty brass will consistantly eject and a new round is chambered. That is the setting for that particular load. Insert another set screw and tighten it against the first screw.
I have also considered making a series of screws that vary in length for each load, but I haven't done this yet.

My M1 LOVES 200 gr Sierra matchking HPBT over 52 grains of Winchester 760 in Remington cases and Remington 9 1/2 magnum primers. The empty brass is piled up about a foot to the right when fired from a bench. 1 MOA all day long. This load would be murder on an M1 with a standard gas system.

Kestrel
October 3, 2003, 11:05 AM
1. Can hunting loads, such as 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip ammo be safely fired in the Garands?

2. Where can these adjustable gas blocks be found?

Thanks again,
Steve

LostCajun
October 3, 2003, 11:49 AM
I can't quite get from your description how your system works. It seems you're just plugging the hole in the plug screw with the allen head screw.
Are you using a cross-cut plug screw and threading the webs of the cross-cuts down into the hole, then screwing the allen head screw down enough to partially block the hole in the base of the plug screw? OK, I think I have it now. Sounds good.... Makes me wish I had access to some tooling.
I wonder if grinding a shallow cone on the end of the allen head screw would make the adjustment any easier, or more linear? (Cone height not to exceed the depth of the plug screw base so you don't damage the gas piston when the body of the allen screw reaches the top of the base) Sort of a needle valve arrangement.
Thanks for the info.
LostCajun

Swampy
October 3, 2003, 12:04 PM
SteveW13 wrote:

1. Can hunting loads, such as 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip ammo be safely fired in the Garands?

All previous caveats apply. Even if the box you buy today is OK, the NEXT one you buy may not be.... because it may very well be loaded with a slower burn rate powder.... bad news for the M1. There is NO WAY to find out or know for sure. Personally, I don't fire ANY commercial hunting ammo in my Garands. If I want to hunt, I'll handload with the appropriate bullets and powders.

2. Where can these adjustable gas blocks be found?

Many places sell them.... Fulton Armory, MidwayUSA, and Brownells for certain all sell the McCann version. You might check with Dean at DGR and Orion7 too. Also, at the top of one of the pages over on battlerifles.com there is a banner for Schuster's Nuts... one of the makers of the Adjustable gas cylinder screws.

Best regards,
Swampy

LostCajun
October 3, 2003, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the reference, Swampy.
That first arrangement on this page
http://www.adcofirearms.com/gasnuts.cfm
is what I had in mind.

Kestrel
October 3, 2003, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the help.

Steve

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