[Mike Irwin]

Just came across this on the Marine website...

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/FE650EB9E2FA7A2185256DAC0069A243?opendocument

[uglygun]

Doesn't "beyond 1000 yards" seem a little opptomistic for the 308Win/7.62Nato?


I mean 1k yards is pretty fair but even that is a stretch to get there with the 308Win it seems. What major advancement in bullets or propellant has made the leap to "beyond 1k" possible?


Now, I know the Lapua Scenars that some people have been playing with in the 308Win. fly like nobody's business(some reporting that 308win using the 168grn weight class Scenar are tracking along with the 300WinMag 190grn cam on M3 scopes) but that ain't the bullet being used in the M118 load.


Strange to also see a Marine praising a bipod, I thought they almost always shot using their packs as a rest? Something about having a more natural and "dead" rest with their packs as opposed to the bipod which can scoot around or vibrate strangely.


Heard the complaints about the weight of the new M40 A3 though.

[Mike Irwin]

Beats the hell out of me. I just linked the article, which I found while looking for historic images of US Marines in WW I.

There's a decided lack of sites that actually have combat images of US troops, Marines or Army, during World War I.

[gun-fucious]

looked here?
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/sgphtml/sashtml/sashome.html

[Sunray]

"...they almost always shot using their packs as a rest..." Likely using a bipod if available, but a pack if they're in the bush. No extra weight required. The .308 has no problem reaching a target at 1,000. DCRA and your Camp Perry matches are shot at 1,000. No big deal.

[hillbilly]

And, if you go to the classes here, you get plenty of chances to shoot targets at 900 and 1000 yards. I've taken the first two classes and used a .308 for both.

http://www.badlandstactical.net

Bang.............................................................clang.


hillbilly

[Jaywalker]

I'm not trying to be flip here, but targets that don't move are different. The 7.62 is moving pretty slowly at that range, and that converts to a longer time-of-flight. IIRC, the M-14 sniper variant had trouble at 1K because of the slight difference in muzzle velocity due to the gas-operated action bleeding off some energy. Once the bullet hits the trans-sonic region, it tends to lose a little accuracy, I understand.

Jaywalker

[SodaPop]

AFAIK The Marines dumped the 168gr bullet due to the fact that it was sub-sonic from 900-1000yds. The 175gr Matchking is still sonic.

I don't think a 308 bullet travelling at under 1100fps has much more to go past 1000yds.

But what do I know..

[Detritus]

I am givent o understand that the Marines train thier scout/snipersto shoot out to 1k sop that they CAN is need be shoot at a fairly stationary objects(sentry, people manning crew-served weapons, etc) esp such things as pieces of Enemy Materiel that shall we say " don't react well to bullets", during the gulf war attempts were made to drop sniper teams near suspected or confirmed SCUD sites, and the shooters told to punch holes in the pressure vessel style Fuel storage tanks. thus redering the launcher/missle in-op)


but in truth, i suspect that the REAL reason that the 1,000 yard standard was created was b/c that was the longer/est readily available range at each base, that shooting to 1k was a common thing in competition (Palma, etc) and that the theory was that "if a person is trained to hit an A-sized targetat that range, then hits at the more common in combat shorter distances, will become easier".

but that the doctrine makers also look at it as "well if he/she can hit something at that range, let's make sure there is at least enough energy to make that shot worth the time/effort"

[SodaPop]

during the gulf war attempts were made to drop sniper teams near suspected or confirmed SCUD sites, and the shooters told to punch holes in the pressure vessel style Fuel storage tanks. thus redering the launcher/missle in-op)


That was done with 50 cal rifles.

[4v50 Gary]

Don't the Brits normally shoot @ 1200 meters with their .308s? I know it bullet starts going transonic at about 800 but if it can reach 1200, it can kill. The distinction to draw is between harassment fire for psychological reasons and guaranteed one shot kills.

Thanks for the link.

[hillbilly]

Yes, shooting a .308 beyond 1000 yards at targets that can shoot back is not something you want to do for a living.

However, it can be done.

The hit ratios go way down. You don't engage targets that are moving around a lot. But it most certainly can be done.

Steve Suttles, former Marine sniper, registered the longest confirmed kill of the Vietnam war with a bolt action rifle...something like 1280 yards.

The .308 reaches out a long farther with a lot more effect at those ranges than lots of folks think.

hillbilly

[swingset]

Don't the Brits normally shoot @ 1200 meters with their .308s?

Yes they do. They are also using the the Accuracy Intl. in .338 Lapua, which has a much easier time out at 1000+.