[Baron]

Hey all. Got some Rainier 200 gr. flat points to reload .45 with. Lee load chart says jacketed bullets run from 5.3-5.8 grains of W231, so I started at 5.3 and worked up. Well, 5.8 recoiled like a pussycat and I figured I'd stumbled across a goldmine of a great loading with lots of punch and very little recoil. Loaded about 1000 of the buggers and gleefully noted that a 13 lb. recoil spring made my TRP feel like an easy 9mm. Had the bright idea yesterday of chronoing my miracle load and could hardly believe that it was chronoing between 650 and 700 fps. Come on!!!! How aenemic! So it's partially my fault for not suspecting this given the gentle recoil, but really. This is a MAX LOAD, and it's supposed to be in the neighborhood of 950 FPS. I want a good plinking load that's not too hot but at least begins to approximate the feel of defensive loads so it's good practice.

I read somewhere that bullets like Rainiers don't seal the bore well resulting in lower pressures. I also have used Rainiers for .357 SIG, and a full 13 grains of AA#9 under a 124 gr. Rainiers FP only yield 1250 fps (despite the veritable flashbang from the muzzle) and not the 1350-1400 I was looking for in replication of 4" .357 Mag ballistics.

So - perhaps it's just that Rainiers are not up to the job of high velocity, though dropping from 950 to 700 fps in .45 is ridiculous. Has anybody else experienced this? Any suggestions on affordable, quality bullets? I've been looking at Montana Gold for .357 SIG in hopes it can give me the velocities I've been looking for (at less than $100/1000!) - are their .45 bullets quality as well? Any better ideas?

Thanks all.

[RandyP]

Newbie reloader here, but plated bullets generally are NOT recommended for high velocity use? I know Berry's recommends not exceeding about 1200fps for any of their product and I "think" the same holds true for Ranier?

I personally enjoy the lighter loads for paper punching at the range. Just my opinion, but in a real SD situation, you are very unlikely to feel or remember any recoil.

[Walkalong]

That does seem a bit low for the charge.

5.6 Grs of W-231 and a Precision 200 Gr SWC @ 1.250 O.A.L. gave me 780 FPS from a 4" CDP & 729 FPS from a 3" CDP @ 80+ degrees.

5.5 Grs of W-231 and a Berrys 230 Gr RN @ 1.250 O.A.L. gave me 789 FPS from a 5" 1911, 741 FPS from a 4 1/4" 1911, & 722 FPS from a 3" 1911 in warm weather.

I have not chronoed much W-231. No need. I had my old proven loads that worked.

The Raniers are up to the job in .45, no problem there. They seal the bore fine, they have a soft lead core.

I did not like the Ranier 200 Gr FP or HP offerings when I tried them. The Ranier 200 Gr SWC shoots much better and gives better numbers all around. The FP & HP just don't have much bearing surface and don't have as much neck tension as the SWC. I think that is part of it. Poor start pressure.

[Baron]

Great, thanks for the replies. I've been using a Lee Factory Crimp Die, and have been putting a pretty stout crimp on, which I hate to increase further for fear of busting the plating. Ideas?

Thanks again.

[Kentucky Jelly]

Are they accurate?
I do not own a chrono, and load 200grn RN Rainiers over 4grn of clays. It is very light recoil and accurate enough for indoor range so I just never worried about what kind of speeds i was getting.

Stock Dan Wesson PM7 btw.

[Baron]

RIDICULOUSLY accurate - this is bar none the most accurate gun/load I have ever fired. My buds and I play a game at the range where we throw an empty bottle downrange and each shooter fires at in until hit, then the next shooter, etc. (pistols). I can chase a bottle ALL OVER the range with this gun - hits at 30 yds. on the end of a laying bottle are the norm. Love it!

So - not a bad load, works great for what I want it for, just surprised/disappointed in the very low velocity. I can shoot it all day and not really be teaching myself to adjust to normal recoil.

[Steve C]

I use one load of 5.5grs of W231 with both 230gr FMJ's and 200gr LSWC's. Looking back at my chrono data this load gave me 797 fps for the 230gr Rem FMJ and 812 fps for cast 200gr LSWC's from a 5" Colt Gov Model.

Some guns just shoot slower than others and it may not be a load issue, what does hardball do out of your pistol? Primers may also make quite a difference. I was using Winchester primers with my loads.

[rcmodel]

and have been putting a pretty stout crimp on, which I hate to increase further for fear of busting the plating.That right there might be the source of your problem.

Making .449" bullets out of .452" bullets by excessive crimp would sure account for less then expected velocity.

All you need to do is crimp just slightly.
Enough to straighten the bell, and return the case mouth to .469" - .472" O.D., and no more.

Neck tension, not crimp, holds the bullet in place in semi-auto rounds, and squeezing it smaller can also squeeze the bullet down under bore size.

rc

[Baron]

Ooh, good catch - I was crimping the living crap out of them at first, and that's probably exactly what I'm doing again. I'll load a new batch and see what results.

Many thanks!