small primer .45 acp brass what to do??


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Kraylon
February 3, 2009, 09:32 PM
I am new to reloading, but my dad has been doing it as long as i have been alive, but his knowalge is more with the old school cailpers such as .357 mag 41 mag. and target rifles, so here is where my problem started i bought a .45 sig and i want to start reloading so i got with my dad and went over the equiment and as i was looking around on the net i found some once fired brass that was 7.00 for a 100 which were speer small primer and federal nt. I called my dad to see if this is what i needed and i was told "Brass is Brass", so i ordered 400 of the speer and 400 of the federal nt and I also bought some large pistol primers, so i get them and ppunch out all the primers with my dad and then i figure out that they all have small primers holes and on the federal i can't get small or large primers in them.

After all that info my questions are
Did i waste my money by buying these small primer .45 acp brass?
what primers do i use small pistol or small magnum primers?
how would the smaller primer change the powder charge?

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ljnowell
February 3, 2009, 09:43 PM
They are small primer brass. the NT stands for non-toxic I believe. They can be reloaded, but if it were me I would start at a minimum charge and work up on that brass due to primer difference and possibly case difference.

dmazur
February 3, 2009, 10:30 PM
Well, I'd write the incident off as experience and get some standard .45 ACP brass.

I'm not familiar with the etiquette at all pistol ranges (obviously), but at our club you're supposed to pick up your own brass. Apparently we have some members who 1) don't reload and 2) don't like to bend over, so I picked up 40 or so once-fired Winchester cases the other weekend.

I understand that you aren't supposed to arm-wrestle the last shooter for his own brass... :)

However, if you're at the range at a quiet time, and you can get it before it weathers too badly, it is a source of free brass.

I believe .45 ACP is considered a relatively low pressure round, and if you care for your brass and don't load it hot it can last a long, long time.

$56 isn't really that much of a cost over the long haul...I wouldn't mess with the non-standard stuff. Just think, you'll have to keep it sorted separately from the "normal" brass you'll eventually accumulate, unless you want to set up for shooting small primer .45 ACP exclusively.

The Bushmaster
February 3, 2009, 10:43 PM
Load them just like you load the standard .45 ACP cases except use small pistol primers. Same brass different primer pocket.

ljnowell
February 3, 2009, 10:55 PM
If you decide not to use it, send it over my way, I'll reload anything! :D

tbtrout
February 3, 2009, 11:02 PM
I use the same load in 45 for large and small primers. Works the same. Work up a load for it and shoot.

Mt Shooter
February 3, 2009, 11:38 PM
pain in the rear to switch back and forth, dump the nt's stay with the large primers only.

PCJim
February 4, 2009, 12:11 AM
Kraylon, although the manufacturers state that the small primer 45acp brass is not reloadable, it definitely is. I do not recall where I read this information, but use your regular 45acp recipe and expect appx. 30fps less velocity with the small primer.

Admittedly, they are a pain to keep separate from regular 45 brass. I save mine up until I have a batch large enough to warrant reloading them. I then give them to my son and his friends for use at their "Bubba" range, knowing that I will not be seeing much of it return.

rundm
February 4, 2009, 03:29 AM
I'm glad I saw this post. I bought 2500 cases of it a couple of yrs ago. I have my dillon now so I need to get it reloaded. I guess I will just have to keep it seperated from the other stuff which shouldn't be to hard to do.

cliffy
February 4, 2009, 03:40 AM
USE small rifle standard primers. CCI 400 should work just fine. In the other .45 cases with BIGGER holes, use CCI 300 standard pistol primers. You don't need MAGNUM primers. cliffy

71Commander
February 4, 2009, 08:28 AM
Wolf small pistol primers @19.00 a thousand will work fine. No need to change the charge.

Kraylon
February 4, 2009, 08:38 AM
it won't be too hard for me to keep separate since it is all the brass i have at this point. so if i understand everything that you guys are saying is:
use small pistol primer and reload as normal. Sweet!!!

and what do i do with the federal nt brass that has a smaller primer hole then the spear?
the hole on the federals will not let a small pistol primer go in at all can i open them up alittle to get the primer to fit?

and my dad had me get 700x powder and says to use 4.8 grains which is the middle of the min-max chart from my speer book will the smaller primers ingite this powder???

Kraylon
February 4, 2009, 08:39 AM
QUOTE]Wolf small pistol primers @19.00 a thousand will work fine. No need to change the charge.[/QUOTE]

were do you get these at that price im having a hell of a time finding any primers

Kraylon
February 4, 2009, 08:46 AM
USE small rifle standard primers. CCI 400 should work just fine.

won't that be too much primer??

sorry im really brand new at reloading i only helped my dad all the time but mostly watched and that was over ten years ago

71Commander
February 4, 2009, 08:47 AM
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|284|737

Wideners is out at the moment, but usually they keep a ton on hand.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html

They're out too.

What a way to spoil my morning. I was fine until now.:evil:

Kraylon
February 4, 2009, 09:01 AM
im very lucky to find any primers at my local sporting goods stores but when i do i get atleast a box then call my dad and let him know then he usally cleans them out

ljnowell
February 4, 2009, 10:37 AM
and my dad had me get 700x powder and says to use 4.8 grains which is the middle of the min-max chart from my speer book will the smaller primers ingite this powder???depends on bullet weight and style. I load a 200gr lswc with 4.5gr 700x at OAL of 1.245.

The Bushmaster
February 4, 2009, 11:21 AM
Oh for Pete sake...If this is going to be a drawn out discusion on the pros and cons of the .45 ACP cases with the small pistol primer pockets. Just send them all to me...I don't have all these concerns. Especially about the GREAT problem of sorting them out. I inspect every case about 5 times anyway and have not gotten them mixed up...

ReloaderFred
February 4, 2009, 11:56 AM
I'm with The Bushmaster. Just load and shoot, but don't use small rifle primers. Use small pistol primers of any brand you can get.

Some people want to make a mountain out of a mole hill over every little thing. Small pistol primers have been used for years and years in European .45 acp cases, and they shoot just fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred

cinteal
February 4, 2009, 12:04 PM
and what do i do with the federal nt brass that has a smaller primer hole then the spear?
the hole on the federals will not let a small pistol primer go in at all can i open them up alittle to get the primer to fit?

Does one run into crimped pockets on Federal brass with small primer pockets?

rcmodel
February 4, 2009, 12:27 PM
Some of the Clean-Range / NT stuff does have the primer crimped.

Just ream out the crimp with a deburring tool enough to get a new primer in.

IMO: The thing about using Sm Rifle primers in .45 ACP is bad advice!

You are apparently a brand new reloader, and telling you to ignore every reloading manual so far printed in selecting your components is not a good idea at all.

rc

cinteal
February 4, 2009, 12:37 PM
thank you, rc.

I just found this interesting. In probably 5-6K 45 ACP brass, I've never seen a small primer pocket. Didn't know.

rcmodel
February 4, 2009, 01:02 PM
The reason for the whole mess is that the lead-free primer compound is much more powerful then normal primer mix.

In early production lots, it was found that the new compound produced too much primer-pocket pressure with large primers, causing them to back out violently enough to damage/peen the breach-face on some makes of guns.

The cure was three-fold.
1. Change to SM primer size.
2. Enlarge the flash-hole in the case to about 1/8" to allow quicker pressure drop in the primer pocket.
3. Crimp the primer in place.

Since then, I believe they have tamed down the lead-free compound to the point they don't always crimp them now.

rc

Kraylon
February 4, 2009, 04:13 PM
depends on bullet weight and style. I load a 200gr lswc with 4.5gr 700x at OAL of 1.245.

im using 230 grain round nose berry's mfg bullets.

Just ream out the crimp with a deburring tool enough to get a new primer in

do they make a speicail tool for this??

rcmodel
February 4, 2009, 04:18 PM
Yes Lyman, Lee, Hornady, and others make a tools called a Primer Pocket Reamer in either SM or LG sizes.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#primer%20pocket%20reamer__9315__-_

There are also swaging tools to do the same job.

rc

rundm
February 4, 2009, 11:09 PM
if you are going to be doing a bunch of cases you can not go wrong with the dillon. RG

moooose102
February 5, 2009, 08:09 AM
just check to see if the pocket is crimped. the winchester nt brass i have is, and i ruined a few primers until i figured this out. other than that, just keep them seperate, and reload them using small pistol primers. no big deal.

Kraylon
February 5, 2009, 08:33 AM
if you are going to be doing a bunch of cases you can not go wrong with the dillon. RG

not a bad idea but i like to start with the basics first then go advanced,
and at this point i only have one pistol but i am looking to get my wife a sig p229 .40

just check to see if the pocket is crimped. the winchester nt brass i have is, and i ruined a few primers until i figured this out. other than that, just keep them seperate, and reload them using small pistol primers. no big deal.

yea they are crimped I'm going to get a reamer from my dad till i find a online reloader suppler that has a good one in stock midway is sold out at this point in time

PCJim
February 5, 2009, 04:35 PM
Kraylon, since your father lives close and also reloads, why not go halves on equipment needs. More likely than not, you both will not need the same tool at the same time.

Kraylon
February 5, 2009, 05:14 PM
Kraylon, since your father lives close and also reloads, why not go halves on equipment needs. More likely than not, you both will not need the same tool at the same time.

He doesn't like to share and since i work grave yard shift and he works day shift it is a little hard for me and him to get together, so i just get my owen stuff and he has most of everything

ReloaderFred
February 5, 2009, 08:23 PM
If this becomes too big an issue to overcome, send me a PM and we can trade brass. I don't mind loading them at all and have plenty of .45 brass with large primer pockets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Kraylon
February 6, 2009, 12:08 PM
thanks for the offer but it is a great learning experance for me and since all the brass i have is small primer brass it makes it easyer since i don't hace to keep them seprate

ReloaderFred
February 6, 2009, 12:16 PM
Good for you! I'm glad to see someone who is willing to stick it out and learn something new. Hang in there and it will suddenly all become clear.

Fred

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