New Hydrashocks?


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CrudeGT
September 30, 2003, 08:47 PM
I was flipping through a new issue of handgun magazine and in the last few pages they list new rumors and stuff they have heard through the grape vine. One of the things they mentioned in this issue was a new version of Federal Hydrashocks. They didn't really give any more info than that. it was just one sentence saying that these new hydrashocks would be out soon and they were new and impoved. I was wondering if you guys had heard anymore on this? maybe when they're coming out, or what is new about them?

I keep my primary clip for my concealed carry loaded with Hydrashocks, so I'm definitely going to pick up some of the new stuff whenever it's available.

(BTW, i'm new, and i must say I like this board. Seems like a lot of well educated people that are out to help and not be rude. Kinda rare to find a board where people aren't getting flamed on every thread)

If you enjoyed reading about "New Hydrashocks?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mete
October 1, 2003, 08:19 AM
Companies are always trying to make better bullets . The Hydra-Shok has aready undergone changes so there is always a chance that they will be further improved or even replaced. But they are already one of the best bullets on the market so don't expect and large improvement in performance from a new one. My own experience only goes to woodchucks with 155 - .40 cal. but the favorite in actual police street use for the .45 is the 230 Hydra-Shok. .....Welcome to the forum....If you are a new shooter you may not be aware that before the infamous FBI shootout in Miami there were no standards so the companies didn't know what kind of bullets to make. Since the shootout, standards have been established and better bullets continue to be made within the standards.

Obiwan
October 1, 2003, 09:09 AM
A quote from Doctor Roberts on TF...presents it better than I ever could.

"As written in previous threads about older bullet designs (HINT--use the search feature), the Hydra-Shok was state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. In .45 ACP, the best performing bullets we currently see in our testing are the: Winchester 230 gr Ranger Talon (RA45T), Winchester 230 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA45TP), Federal 230 gr Tactical (LE45T1), and Speer 230 gr Gold Dot (23966)."

Safety First
October 1, 2003, 09:35 PM
Welcome to THR, it's a fun place to visit ....

.45FMJoe
October 1, 2003, 10:34 PM
I can't wait to get my paws on some of those RA45TP rounds. Gawd, they sound like sex on, ummm....copper?!?!:D

TheeBadOne
October 1, 2003, 10:39 PM
Hydrashoks are still the .45 ACP round all others are compared against, for a reason. It works very well.

LiquidTension
October 2, 2003, 04:30 AM
I just shot a box of RA45TP last weekend, still got one box left. Apparently they're loaded a bit longer than Hydrashocks and therefore engaged my slide stop while there were still rounds in the mag. Getting a new slide stop from Kimber, then I'll shoot some more and start carrying the Rangers. They're a little hotter than the Hydras, but that's ok with me :D

Obiwan
October 2, 2003, 08:54 AM
People compare to the Hydra Shocks because they were one of the first "engineered" bullet designs.

But they are old news...as demonstrated by Federal realizing the need to update...probably because sales are starting to lag.

Info on performance is much easier to get now...hearsay doesn't get you far.

Hint.....gun mags are not the best source for empirical data!

Thanksfully...the ability to hit what you aim at is still the #1 concern

Island Beretta
October 2, 2003, 05:08 PM
Some of you makes it sound like 'old news' is bad news. If you check it out most of the time all that has been done is that the 'old news' has been repackaged and renamed. Handgun and ammunition technology is not like computer technology, they do not change very often.


Glocks have been around for 20 years and people still call it a new design and question the polymer concept in handguns. During that time computers have gone from needing a building to be housed to being carried in my pocket..wait a minute here what's this P6s are out but I just bought a P3.. sorry got to go, need an upgrade...:eek:

Dean Speir
October 6, 2003, 03:30 AM
 

Federal/ATK, as I reported (http://www.thegunzone.com/efmj.html) five weeks ago, is about to discontinue Tom Burczynski's "battle-tested" Hydra-Shok in favor of a new anti-personnel handgun round from Alan Corzine, one of the co-patent holders of the Winchester Black Talon/SXT (nee "Black Widow") round of a decade ago.

Hint to Obiwan: while you are quite correct, and proper, in your choice of language about Hydra-Shoks (preferred spelling) being "one of the first 'engineered' bullet designs," sales may in fact be "starting to lag," they still retain the greatest marketshare although Speer/ATK's Gold Dots are pressing them.

As for "gun mags" not being "the best source for empirical data," gunzines are probably only the best source for good firearms photography. With the advent of the Internet, whatever information they contain is usually stale by the time it hits the newsstands… assuming, arguendo, that the information has any value with which to begin….

 

CZF
October 6, 2003, 03:50 PM
Any truth to the rumor that the new design: HI-SHOK 2 will be restricted to
Law Enf. sales only?

Dean Speir
October 6, 2003, 04:01 PM
 

Who said that they would be called "Hi-Shok2," and who told you that they would be restricted to Law Enforcement? Do you really think that ATK would take such a popular round off the market and not allow its replacement to fill that gap?!?

You gotta get a better source for rumors, I think…:p

 

CZF
October 7, 2003, 05:01 PM
Federal Hi-Shok 2
Federal Hi-Shok 2 (HST) bullets feature a hollow point cavity precisely engineered for each caliber and load.
From www.streichers.com

Dean Speir
October 7, 2003, 08:00 PM
 

…look, CZF , I'm not trying to drive a stake into your heart here, just trying to find out the basis of your curious information. Where does anything on the site you referenced suggest… …that "Hi-Shok 2" is a "new" round?
…hat "Hi-Shok 2" is the successor to Hydra-Shok?
…that the "Hi-Shok 2" rounds are restricted to Law Enforcement?
Honest to Peter G. Kokalis, if that's your source, you need to read a little more carefully.

 

CrudeGT
October 7, 2003, 09:39 PM
After looking over the description, i don't think the Hi-Shok2 are re-designed Hydra-Shoks. I see where you got all the info, kind of. It is easy to assume that the Hi-Shok2 is the next in a series to the Hydra-Shok, but they aren't. And it mentions on the site that any item marked with a (+) is restricted to sale to an agency only. however, the Hi-Shok2 does not have the (+) insignia. and they are not new. Also, in a world where you get what you pay for, and the more expensive the better, why would the 'new' hydra-shoks be less than the old hydra-shoks? it just doesn't add up. I think the Hi-Shok2's are just hollow points.

BluesBear
October 8, 2003, 04:22 AM
Hi-Skok have been loaded in Federal CLASSIC ammunition for YEARS! Hi-Shoks are just your average Hollow Point and Soft Point ammunition.

It ain't nothing new.

Hydra-Shok is the hollow point with the post that is loaded in the Federal PREMIUM line.

It ain't exactly new either.


Y'all just listen to Dean, I do.


Why you ask? Yes you did ask, I heard you.
I listen to him because he knows what he talks about.

PCRCCW
October 9, 2003, 08:22 AM
Ive heard this for a while and think the point has some merit.

The Hydra-Shok bullet design is possibly outdated, IMO. The hollow cavity is small and the little "Hydrastatic point" in it, that facilitates "better expansion when loaded with Hydralic pressure" does work in theory. But, IMO, there are better bullet designs out currently.

Bullet manufactures are starting to really listen to the public and looking at real life situations when a defensive bullet may be used by the Public as well as LEA's.

Clothing or other media filling up the hollow cavity is becoming a huge issue these days. The smaller cavity was originally thought/designed as to, fill with fluids faster in comparison to a large one and thus react to the fluids and expand faster/more efficiently.

Now current testing and other improved bullet designs are getting better results when shot through "common barriers" like denim etc.
The smaller/more efficient hollow point of the Hydra fills up with demin and
can lead to limited or complete lack of expansion.

With this knowledge and experience under some bullet makers belts, already they are striving to make JHP/Defensive Bullets that work in real work conditions better than some of the older technology.....

Why do you think Federal had such great hopes for the EFMJ lineup? It was rumored upon the initial release of the Fed. EFMJ to be the replacement for the Hydra-Shok line. I could be wrong about that..my memory doesnt always serve me. Fed. realized that the market share wasnt there. Its one of the only other +P line of rounds to be released by Federal and was done so to "give it more merit" as a defensive round.

Another question...Whats so strange about a new JHP being released to LEO's only? Federal has done it for years. +P+ 9mm Fed's I use in my CCW at times are LEO only ammo. Sure you can get em...anyone can.

But you come across with a subtle sarcasm to CZF when he brings this up.
Why? Because he brings up stuff that Fed. is releasing about an new bullet that frankly, IMO, theyve needed for a long time?

Not only is the bullet design on the Hydra outdated IMO, the pressures and velocities are truely down on other bullets that in the same class.

Example : +P+ 124 gr Hydra Shok typically get less than 1180-1200 FPS from the typical 9MM s/auto...when +P 124 Gold Dots have more velocity.

Corbon and the Ranger ammo in true +P / +P+ configurations/pressures stomp the Hydra's for any given velocity ratings.

And the irony here is even Federal claims to have made the round to a higher pressure/velocity for more consistant expansion against fluids.
This is needed because of the smaller JHP design........

Sorry for the rant....but I feel CZF's and other points were being besmerched without just cause and I havent had my coffee yet :D

Dean on your own website..you give indication yourself that the Hydra-Shok is getting updated. Its the bottom line on the paged linked below.

http://www.thegunzone.com/efmj.html

You state something along the lines of: Never one to rest on his laurels Burczynski has also created for Federal the HS2. Another updating of the seminal Hydra-Shok.

Just one mans opinon.......

Shoot well :rolleyes:

BTW...Dean, nice web site....thanks. Shoot well.

Dean Speir
October 9, 2003, 12:38 PM
 

Bluesbear… my blushes.

And now to PCRCCW:But you come across with a subtle sarcasm to CZF when he brings this up. My "business" has always been about information which frequently caused some difficulties in an area where the standard has long been to re-write manufacturers' press releases.

So as new information comes along, my standard is to evaluate it along certain criteria. And when anyone says something like: "any truth to the rumor that…," it's important to know the source of that rumor.

I asked CZF that question, and he pointed us to a commercial site where the information utterly failed to support the "rumor" he initially questioned. Certain inferences may be drawn from that, and I hardly need to enumerate them.

As for "subtle sarcasm," I'll cop to a certain impatience with those who pass rumors without first applying some basic critical thinking skills, or, as what seems to have happened here, read X, understood it as Y and asked about Z.

Why? Because he brings up stuff that Fed. is releasing about an new bullet that frankly, IMO, theyve needed for a long time? Except that it's apparent that someone is discussing at least three, if not more, separate issues here as if they are one.

Hydra-Shok is one… and Hi-Shok has nothing to do with Hydra-Shok, and never has.

Federal's (as yet unnamed) "new and improved" Son-of-Black-Talon "replacement" round from Alan Corzine hasn't been released to the best of my knowledge… and that knowledge is reasonably current.

Not only is the bullet design on the Hydra outdated IMO, the pressures and velocities are truely down on other bullets that in the same class.

Example : +P+ 124 gr Hydra Shok typically get less than 1180-1200 FPS from the typical 9MM s/auto...when +P 124 Gold Dots have more velocity.

Corbon and the Ranger ammo in true +P / +P+ configurations/pressures stomp the Hydra's for any given velocity ratings. Please, let's not lose sight of one basic fact: there is no such animal as "+P+" anywhere in the SAAMI (or, for that matter, CIP) playbook, and the only "+Ps" are in 9 X 19mm, .38 Special, .45 ACP and, oddly enough, .257 Roberts. The "+P+" designation is nothing more than a marketing conceit, originated, I believe, by Federal with their "restricted" 9BP/LE. Others, most notably CorBon, have picked it up and run with it… in Peter Pi's case, all the way to the bank, bless his cynical li'l heart.

Application of some Critical Thinking here: does anyone think that if they pressure-tested something like, to use one you cited, "+P+ 124 gr Hydra Shok" or, arguendo, a CorBon ".40 S&W 135-grain +P," that the pressures would be above the SAAMI-accepted limits of, respectively, 9 X 9mm +P or plain ol' garden variety .40 S&W?

The other issue which too many have failed to grasp, is that modern handgun projectiles have been engineered to perform (terminal ballistics) at specific velocities, so that if Tom Burczynski's Starfire "machine-in-a-bullet" 230-grainer is designed to open within a 825-900 fps range and penetrate to a depth of 10-14 inches, what does driving the identical projectile 100-150 fps faster actually accomplish?!?

Suffice to say, it defeats the engineering of that projectile. In this realm, "faster" isn't better except in the minds of shooting customers who haven't thought things through very thoroughly.

And the irony here is even Federal claims to have made the round to a higher pressure/velocity for more consistant expansion against fluids.
This is needed because of the smaller JHP design........ And I can guarantee you that there was more that went into such a "change" than just upping the velocity. Take a close look at how the cavity, "post" and ogive of the Hydra-Shok has evolved over the past 30 years… or just in the past 15-17 years that Federal has licensed the design!

Sorry for the rant....but I feel CZF's and other points were being besmerched without just cause and I havent had my coffee yet

Dean on your own website..you give indication yourself that the Hydra-Shok is getting updated. Its the bottom line on the paged linked below.

http://www.thegunzone.com/efmj.html

You state something along the lines of: Never one to rest on his laurels Burczynski has also created for Federal the HS2. Another updating of the seminal Hydra-Shok. First, I don't consider a reasoned and focussed discussion a "rant," but I still haven't seen any supporting information from CZF which would lead him to reasonably conclude that the successor to Hydra-Shok would be called "Hi-Shok2," or would be restricted to Law Enforcement.

And again, Hydra-Shok has been continually "updated" since its inception… I have in my extensive .45 ACP collection, four different iterations of the damned thing, and I stopped that part of the collection seven years ago!

That said, before there's anymore confusion, there are some very different rounds being referenced in this one thread: Federal Hi-Shok (non-premium).
Federal Hydra-Shok.
Federal HS2 (already released).
Federal EFMJ.
Federal "XXX" (as yet unnamed and unreleased).
Note that all but the last are out there and happily co-existing.

I suspect that ATK/Federal's venerable Hydra-Shok has lost some significant marketshare to ATK/Speer's Gold Dot, and each division would like bragging rights… things like that go all the way back to, in my lifetime at least, Evinrude and Johnson.

What I just don't as yet understand is how Federal hopes to simply discontinue such a popular round which is the issue round for so many departments and agencies. If they are able to pull that off, then their marketing and sales force could get Gore into the White House in early 2005!

And thank you, PCRCCW, for your gracious remarks as well.

 

Tamara
October 9, 2003, 01:22 PM
and the only "+Ps" are in 9 X 19mm, .38 Special, .45 ACP and, oddly enough, .257 Roberts.

Isn't there also an official spec for .38 Super +P? (Or is that also a part of the wunnerful world of box-flap ballistics?)

Dean Speir
October 9, 2003, 01:39 PM
 

Hey, Tam…

It may be reasonably argued that ".38 Super" is actually a ".38 Automatic +P" since the two rounds are dimensionally identical, but no, there is no ".38 Super +P," just a .38 Super with higher pressures than a .38 Automatic.

Last time I looked, most .38 Super packaging advises that it should not be fired in firearms marked ".38 Automatic" or ".38 Auto," and I suspect that any .38 Super rounds which are offered by anyone other than CorBon (who marks just about everything as "+P") which carry the "+P" appellation, are so marked as an extra hedge against someone using them in one of those "antique" pistols built for the .38 Automatic.

 

Deep Blue
October 9, 2003, 01:50 PM
Others, most notably CorBon, have picked it up and run with it… in Peter Pi's case, all the way to the bank, bless his cynical li'l heart.

LOL!:D

PCRCCW
October 9, 2003, 03:21 PM
Points well taken. Just a note.
On the web page of yours that I refer to, you mention the "Fed HS2" is the next incarnation of the Hydra-Shok....

What gives? This is the round that CZF regards in his comments yet its the Hi-Shok 2.......

So can you expand on this for me...................................
:rolleyes:

Tamara, you say "Box Tab Ballistics" like there is another kind! :D
You mean that isnt absolutely true information? Hmmmmmmmmm

Shoot well

Dean Speir
October 9, 2003, 04:47 PM
 

…you mention the "Fed HS2" is the next incarnation of the Hydra-Shok....

What gives? This is the round that CZF regards in his comments yet its the Hi-Shok 2....... Upon information and belief, Federal is in fact marketing a (premium, or perhaps Law Enforcement) round developed by Burczynski and known as "HS2," a short form of Hydra-Shok 2.

Clearly the round on that commercial site to which CZF linked, is offering the non-premium "Hi-Shok 2," which I believe to be unrelated to Hydra-Shok, but I'll ask Tom Burczynski just in case I need deconfusing. New information develops all the time: i.e., last February the new round introduced at SHOT by Gaston and company, was the "45 Glock," and very definitely was presented without a decimal point. By the time ATK/Speer had brought it to SAAMI, what was approved (and wisely, I believe!) was the ".45 G.A.P."

And while Tam can certainly speak for herself, I think by "Box Tab Ballistics" (nice coinage, BTW) she's encompassing both "Nominal Velocities" and "marketing hype."

 

45crittergitter
October 12, 2003, 04:38 PM
Tom Gresham said today (Oct 12, 2003) that the EMFJ is the Hydrashock replacement, according to Federal.

PCRCCW
October 12, 2003, 06:19 PM
I sincerely hope thats not the case! Ive not had good luck with the EFMJ's in regards to accuracy in my guns. Which is NOT the case with Hydra's regardless of caliber or weapon of choice.l

Ill have to give them another shake.....hmmmm.

Dean,
I was kidding about the ballistics thing. We chrono once in a while but its been a while. Tamara does have a most eloquent style, doesnt she?

Shoot well

BluesBear
October 23, 2003, 07:08 PM
This is from inside ATK, which is the parent company of both Federal and Speer/CCI.

Today, I asked someone who works for ATK the folowing questions;


Q) I have been hearing rumors that one of your companies, Federal Cartridge Company, is discontinuing the manufacture of Hydra-Shok ammunition. Is this true?

A) We have no plans to discontinue the Hydra Shok but we must continue to develop.

Q) I have also heard that the replacement will be called HS2. Is this a new form of Hydra-Shok?

A) New Bullet will be called HST - no Post.

Q) So, the current Hyrda-Shok will still be available?

A) Yes it will.

Q) Do you have any more info on the new rounds? Release date? Photos?

A) I have nothing yet and I suspect we wont until after the Shot Show.



So there you have it. Hydra-Shok isn't going away any time soon. But there is something in the works besides the EFMJ.

Bear

Dean Speir
October 23, 2003, 07:36 PM
 

Well done, Bluesbear.

I got this (and much more) earlier this week, but haven't had a chance to put it together yet as I'm awaiting some images from ATK.

This makes much more sense than what Cozine told the Primedia gunzine writers in August, and what Drew Goodlin told Tom Gresham's radio audience about the same time. Corzine's statement is especially disturbing since he's the #3 guy there at this point and apparently with a career track in mind, and it looks like his ego took hold of him in front of a bunch of writers.

That commercial site referenced was all wrong, but as one of my sources said yesterday, "they only know what they were told."

Good job.

 

Mil Novecientos Once
October 27, 2003, 08:51 PM
Federal Hi-Shok 2 (HST) bullets feature a hollow point cavity precisely engineered for each caliber and load.

Just like Speer's Gold Dot. IMHO the best JHP ammo that a civilian can buy. Remember that there is no magic bullet and that shot placement is all that counts.

MattXYZ
August 6, 2007, 01:44 AM
HST means Hi ShoK Tactical, not Hi Shok Two.

Phaetos
August 6, 2007, 02:43 AM
Mind not reviving 4 year old threads?

Mot45acp
August 6, 2007, 03:10 AM
But look at how polite everyone was back then.
Now the mods gotta work for their uhhh what do yall work for?

MisterPX
August 6, 2007, 03:27 AM
What's with teh Necroposting?

Checkman
August 6, 2007, 04:25 AM
You aren't familiar with Dean Speir I take it. That guy is ......... well I guess colorful is a good description. Go to The Gun Zone and browse. You'll see.

hotpig
August 6, 2007, 12:32 PM
Intresting thing Federal started calling HST as Hi Shok Two. They packaged it in the Classic box. Later they said HST does not mean anything and packaged it in the Premium box.

Now HST is in the Tactical line with the other LE rounds such as the Bonded, Hydra Shok, and EFMJ ammo.

Dean Speir
August 6, 2007, 12:38 PM
.

.

.

.

.

HST means Hi ShoK Tactical, not Hi Shok Two.
ATK/Federal can rename, re-brand or reposition, its product line any ol' way it sees fit, of course, but it may be instructive for you to consult the current edition of their Website:
Tactical (http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_tatical.asp)

Hydra-Shok (http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_hydra.asp)

Hi-Shok (http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_classic.asp) You will note that "Hi-Shok" and "Tactical" are two distinct lines, and designs, with Hydra-Shok comprising a third.

While the company was a little soft on the launch of the "HST" or "HS2" product, according to Tom Burczynski, the guy who came up with the original Hydra-Shok concept back in the early '70s before licensing it to pre-ATK Federal in the mid-'80s, it meant "Hydra-Shok 2." And Hotpig seems to have a reasonably accurate grasp of this inexplicably controversal issue of nomenclature.

Mind not reviving 4 year old threads?
And "necroposting" (interesting coinage, BTW) would be, what, against Forum policy? It's certainly not a hard and fast rule, or threads would "lock" after a certain period of inactivity.

Guy's a recent Member, and felt he had something to contribute not sure why you and MisterPX are suggesting that MattXYZ is time-barred from adding his tuppence. I'm just not sure of the basis of his assertion, since it is not supported by ATK/Federal's own site.

Not sure how your comments are relevant, Checkmate, but thank you, I think.

saltydog452
August 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
i hope atk does not discontinue production the hydra-shok line.

it is reliable in my mags and '11a1s and, unlike hst, current hydra-shock is kind to my commander aluminum feed ramps.

salty, one hand typist.

jlrhiner
August 7, 2007, 04:30 PM
I've got a box of "Hydra-Shoks" called Scorpions made in the early '70's that I don't believe had anything to do with the Federal Cartridge CO. I believe they were marketed by a company called Hydra-Shok. Anyone remember these?

gezzer
August 8, 2007, 01:34 AM
I carry them now because that is what I was issued in Moscow on the Charles River (PRC) when I worked for the .gov there.

They are a good round today and have the added benefit of the former reason.

Dean Speir
August 8, 2007, 12:56 PM
.

.

. i hope atk does not discontinue production the hydra-shok line.
The late (to ATK, at least) Mr. Corzine's assertions to the contrary, Hydra-Shok appears to be here for the foreseeable future.

I've got a box of "Hydra-Shoks" called Scorpions made in the early '70's that I don't believe had anything to do with the Federal Cartridge CO. I believe they were marketed by a company called Hydra-Shok. Anyone remember these?
Those would the original Hydra-Shoks made by... wait for it, as Radar O'Reilly used to say... Hydra-Shok, probably of Watkins Glen, NY. I have several boxes fro that time-frame, simple red with black packaging. It was at a time when the now defunct Alberts swaged the projectiles for Burczynski, and his associate Dick Bauman loaded them.

And as I noted above, Burczynski was "the guy who came up with the original Hydra-Shok concept back in the early '70s before licensing it to pre-ATK Federal in the mid-'80s."

Spelling and Grammar Nazis are pests, with no life giving no useful input to discussion
That's nothing more than a cheap excuse for being lazy and taking no pride in your communications skills.

MontanaBighorn
August 9, 2007, 02:35 AM
http://gtdist.com/images/FC-PXXHSTX_lg.jpg

please excuse me if ive overlooked a response already addressing this. i think youre referencing the federal HST ("hydra shok two") #FC-PXXHSTX and HST3 (+P loads), all of which are available to law enforcement only. i emailed federal and told them that if they didnt think i (as an honest citizen) wasnt good enough to purchase the HST then federal wasnt good enough for me. i told them i would not buy any federal ammunition, certainly not their dated hydra shok, and told them i would encourage others to boycott the company also. the way i figure it, if the average citizen isnt good enough for their best product, then the average citizen shouldnt purchase anything from them. they emailed me back stating that it was a production issue, and that they would eventually be available for over the counter sales. i emailed them back asking for an estimated time frame and never heard from them again. im giving them the benefit of the doubt for now to see if they hold good on their word.

choochboost
August 9, 2007, 04:17 AM
The other issue which too many have failed to grasp, is that modern handgun projectiles have been engineered to perform (terminal ballistics) at specific velocities, so that if Tom Burczynski's Starfire "machine-in-a-bullet" 230-grainer is designed to open within a 825-900 fps range and penetrate to a depth of 10-14 inches, what does driving the identical projectile 100-150 fps faster actually accomplish?!?

Suffice to say, it defeats the engineering of that projectile. In this realm, "faster" isn't better except in the minds of shooting customers who haven't thought things through very thoroughly.
I find myself saying that on a fairly frequent basis, but you articulated it much better than I could.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with resurrected threads either. Evidently someone wanted to talk about it. Isn't that why we're here?

Dean Speir
August 9, 2007, 08:22 AM
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.

.

.

.

i told them i would not buy any federal ammunition, certainly not their dated hydra shok, and told them i would encourage others to boycott the company also. Well, you certainly seem to have put the fear of Nathan into them!

FWIW, I don't have a problem with resurrected threads either. But then you're not a "Forum Nanny", are you?!

"Forum Nannies" are crypto-Social Democrats who have an idea of how things should be, and continually attempt to impose their sensibilities on all around them.

Still, I rather enjoyed the "necro-posting" coinage... it is said that if one can affix an opprobrious name or label to an object or an action, it can be destroyed. Witness: "litterbug," "cop killer bullets," "Saturday Night Specials," "assault weapon," etc.

.

.

.

MontanaBighorn
August 9, 2007, 12:56 PM
thanks for the sarcasm. perhaps you dont value sales numbers to "regular joe", but many companies do. perhaps you dont value the strength in numbers but thanks to the information age, as the zumbo incident demonstrated, there is indeed strength in numbers.....even for us lowly peasants.

PGT
January 15, 2013, 01:09 PM
.....

hotpig
January 15, 2013, 01:17 PM
The HST is not related to the Hydra Shock. Hi Shok Two was to replace that product line twelve years ago. It performed so well that Federal put it against the Winchester T-Series product line.

mljdeckard
January 15, 2013, 02:14 PM
You do realize that this thread is ten years old, right? Revived once six years ago?

hotpig
January 15, 2013, 02:38 PM
Revisted four times now.

C0untZer0
January 15, 2013, 03:57 PM
I am proud to be part of this historic thread.

PGT
January 15, 2013, 04:37 PM
You do realize that this thread is ten years old, right? Revived once six years ago?
Yep. I even acknowledged it:

sorry for the bump

I thought it was interesting info to share on the history of Hydra-Shok. Forgive me for wanting to share it with the gun community at large...thought someone would appreciate it.

CPshooter
January 16, 2013, 03:24 PM
Federal HST > Hydra-Shok.

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