CCW screw-up ...!!


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P95Carry
October 1, 2003, 12:13 AM
I tell this against myself .... mainly I guess to prove that however fastidious you think you are .... it is possible to screw up!!!

I take pride in making my concealment good .. reckon to not be made easily if at all ..... however summer carry has been as ever a challenge, usually having snub in OWB small holster at about 4.30 .. sorta right side small of back. Soon to change to P series again and shirt over all time.

If t-shirt only and that a tad tight, I resort to fanny pack for duration of outing ... shopping etc - at home it is open carry anyways.

So ....... over to Lowes and get some goods and then home ... but stop at gas station. Uncharacteristically hot day ... well, very humid, despite early fall ..... a prelude in fact to a mega storm sequence later same day.

I waffle .... sorry!

I do tend when in truck driving, to push shirt between gun and self .. I sweat so much and want to keep gun away from that. It is habit (usually :rolleyes: ) to get out of truck straightening out shirt to be outside piece.

Duh! ...... forgot that at gas station. Ooops! Standing there patiently whilst filling up with 20 gallons from slowest pump in the state .. back to another guy filling, and another still on other side who can see me. Calmly see that thru ... and go to pay. See guy lookin over, sorta interested but not otherwise anything strange .... assumed he had spotted I had same cap as him!!

Into office and pay clerk cash ... say ''have a good one'' and walk out ...... get back to truck and get in ...... and realize .... hell .. piece was on open view all along ... and here ain't open carry!

Actually quite shook me .... partly cos of being so careful normally and ... even concerned lest I was reported to cops. I was very aware on way home of any cop car ''intercepting'' .... ''excuse me sir ..... but we have a report of you displaying a firearm ..........''. Technically, that can .... I say can be enough to get a revokation of the licence.

So far ..... three days on no comeback.

It did tho prove a salutary lesson in just how easy it can be to slip up ..... I was suitably humbled!!

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Greg L
October 1, 2003, 12:30 AM
And thus you learn by it. No harm no foul in this case (plus a pleasant lack of blissninnies along your daily route didn't hurt either :D ).

Greg

Standing Wolf
October 1, 2003, 12:53 AM
How sad that we should have to conceal firearms! Are they something to be ashamed of?

sanchezero
October 1, 2003, 01:04 AM
How sad that we should have to conceal firearms! Are they something to be ashamed of?

Depends...are you carrying a Lorcin?

:D

Quartus
October 1, 2003, 01:11 AM
:D


I'm gonna laugh about that one for days, sanchezero!

fourdeuce82d
October 1, 2003, 01:29 AM
"was suitably humbled!!"

if that 's the worst "Humility Check" you ever experience, you're doing well.

Thought- I live in houston, I'm fat (and therefore not heat tolerant) but I have trained myself to wear a t-shirt and an overshirt. The "T" keeps the gun/holster away from my skin, and the overshirt (bowling, hawaiian, light cotton plaid) conceals the weapon.

Pain in the keister...but it helps prevent the sort of thing you described.

C.R.Sam
October 1, 2003, 03:11 AM
I pulll any clothing away from the guns when I am in vehicle.
Ready and fast access is difficult enough without having shirt issues.
I have made it a habit to re-cover as I am exiting.
But...like havin shirt tail out of fly....sometimes I don't get covered.

Sam

David Park
October 1, 2003, 11:38 AM
piece was on open view all along ... and here ain't open carry! I thought that open carry was perfectly legal in PA (except maybe in Philly), just like in VA. :confused:

jwmoore
October 1, 2003, 11:56 AM
I thought that open carry was perfectly legal in PA (except maybe in Philly), just like in VA.

You're correct, open carry in PA is perfectly legal (and open carry is legal in Philly with a CCW)... However, P95carry said he was "driving truck"... I took that to mean OTR truck, and was out of state.

~W

P95Carry
October 1, 2003, 12:48 PM
Some interesting comments guys ......How sad that we should have to conceal firearms! Are they something to be ashamed of? SW .... you are so right but trouble these days is the numbers of people who can freak out .... thus a feeling of ''discretion is the better part of valor!!''Depends...are you carrying a Lorcin? sanchezero - classic ..... http://www.patriotnetwork.net/images/smilies/lol.gif - fortunately nope .. neither Lorcin, Jennings, Raven ..... just my M85 snub.You're correct, open carry in PA is perfectly legal (and open carry is legal in Philly with a CCW)... However, P95carry said he was "driving truck"... I took that to mean OTR truck, and was out of state. Actually JW .... I was relatively local, and just in my Chevy Silverado ... very ''domestic''. I think my concern was that, having got the CCW and carrying on that ... I was worried lest my ''exposure'' might have cut across the ''conceiled'' aspect, to excess. Having reason to believe that failure to maintain adequate concealment could be grounds for revokation..... if complaints made.

To be honest, I was not aware that PA was in fact also true open carry . I know VA and WV are but .... I wonder where and how I can confirm that 100%. ??

Other factor tho, IIRC .... having a piece with me in the vehicle requires the CCW ...... open carry not AFAIK being extended to carry loaded in vehicle.

Any further clarifications appreciated ... tho I did check on packing.org before.

Edward429451
October 1, 2003, 12:49 PM
Glad you didn't get hassled, but (after the fact), good. A little reminder of a place called America to some.

I've spotted peoples CCW's a few times, makes me feel good to know that so many are armed (if that makes sense.)

Lil' adreneline rush there, hey?;) :D :D

jwmoore
October 1, 2003, 01:02 PM
Actually JW .... I was relatively local, and just in my Chevy Silverado ... very ''domestic''. I think my concern was that, having got the CCW and carrying on that ... I was worried lest my ''exposure'' might have cut across the ''conceiled'' aspect, to excess. Having reason to believe that failure to maintain adequate concealment could be grounds for revokation..... if complaints made.

To be honest, I was not aware that PA was in fact also true open carry . I know VA and WV are but .... I wonder where and how I can confirm that 100%. ??

Other factor tho, IIRC .... having a piece with me in the vehicle requires the CCW ...... open carry not AFAIK being extended to carry loaded in vehicle.


Guess I just misinterrpreted driving your truck.... :)

Title 18, Chapter 61 (http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6106.html) are PA firearms laws... ยง 6106 is "Firearms not to be carried without a license", which states in part

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.


Note the key word concealed... There is no reference made to open carry. Since it is not prohibited, it is allowed. I've done my best to confirm this with LE, including the Union county sherrif when I picked up my CCW. Essentially, I was told if you exposed a concealed firearm, you had only transitioned from concealed carry to open carry, and were still legal.

You are correct about requiring a CCW for packing in a vehicle.

I am not a lawyer, however, so all standard disclaimers apply! :neener:

Best regards,
~Wesley

P95Carry
October 1, 2003, 01:09 PM
Thx JW ...... this is indeed how I see it all.

Sad tho eh that these days we tend to feel this sorta ''paranoia'' about implementing basic rights.:(

RustyHammer
October 1, 2003, 01:56 PM
Around here, most people figure you're LEO or some such and don't think twice about it. Of course, every situation is different.

Jesse H
October 1, 2003, 02:05 PM
fourdeuce82d,

Thought- I live in houston, I'm fat (and therefore not heat tolerant) but I have trained myself to wear a t-shirt and an overshirt. The "T" keeps the gun/holster away from my skin, and the overshirt (bowling, hawaiian, light cotton plaid) conceals the weapon.

I'm also a Houstonian...although I'm a skinny guy, I sweat very easily. Instead of a T-shirt, I've found the A-shirts (wifebeaters) to work very well during our summers.

fourdeuce82d
October 1, 2003, 06:29 PM
"I'm also a Houstonian"

So why the hell aren't you suggesting we get together over at the American Shooting Center on Westheimer past highway six?

Not real "Texas Friendly" of you...

*grin*

I'm tied up this weekend- but let's stay in touch, and maybe the following weekend we'll go turn money into noise & fired brass.


Should we try to get a bunch of Houstonian High-Roaders together?

They've got a little BBQ shack out there- we could shoot, show off, eat BBQ, and tell big lies. Lemme know- could be fun.

JPM70535
October 1, 2003, 07:04 PM
P95Carry,

Don't be too concerned about your incident. It has happened to all of us if the truth be told. More and more people are becoming used to the idea of the public being armed. If those who saw you with your weapon exposed didn't take you for a LEO, they probably figured that anyone with their weapon openly carried had to be legal.

Have you tried IWB carry with something like the Galco Scout to hold your snub? I find that carrying at 4:30-5:00 strong side offers max concealment under a T-Shirt. Living in Florida means wearing shorts and T-Shirts just about year round when not at work, if you don't want to melt.

One thing I have learned over the years is that wiping the CCW down with a slightly oiled rag daily at the end of the day is a must to prevent major rust problems (even with Stainless Weapons). Also taking the grips off at least weekly and wiping the grip frame with oil or a light grease.



GOD MADE MAN, SAM COLT MADE THEM ALL EQUAL!

Spackler
October 1, 2003, 08:22 PM
I don't believe that open carry is permitted in PA. Here's why:
In order to carry a concealed firearm, you must have a valid permit, or it's a third degree felony. According to PA law, if you have a permit and are carrying, the firearm must be completly concealed. That in itself tells me that you can't open carry, because if you can't open carry with a permit, then it doesn't make any sense that you'd be able to open carry without one.

spacemanspiff
October 1, 2003, 08:51 PM
i've had my shirt ride up so my pistol was 'open' once. now its a habit to check my cover garment as discretely as possible.

P95Carry
October 1, 2003, 11:02 PM
Have you tried IWB carry with something like the Galco Scout to hold your snub? I find that carrying at 4:30-5:00 strong side offers max concealment under a T-Shirt. JPM ...... I always have had trouble with comfort and IWB ....... but in fact my current holster (made by TX guy whose name I forget ... and gave his card to a buddy) ...... sits real tight to body even tho on belt - at 4.30 to 5 ... thus snub grip always ''snuggles'' against me ...... pretty much I'd think as tight as if IWB.

The prob I have when humid is that t-shirt and outer shirt just too much ... and I really overheat - so one shirt only ...... thus the wish to protect gun from sweat when concealment not needed .. viz when driving.

I must tho remember to check on leaving vehicle, a tad more assiduously!:p

-----------

Spackler - your logic makes sense but ..... IIRC .. take OHIO as example ... no CCW yet but ... open is technically legal .... as long as not in wrong place!!

Country Boy
October 2, 2003, 05:33 PM
I was jogging, and had my pistol in a fanny pack not made specifically for packing. Got about three blocks, and it had unzipped, dropping my pristine looking carry piece on the pavement outside the house of a deputy sheriff. Picked it up, put it back in the fanny pack, walked back to the house, no problems (other than hurt pride).

One day, I had a quick errand, so I just stuck my carry gun in my waistband Mexican style. Came back home, and had to use the restroom. I've always worn a holster since, because the feeling of a loaded gun sliding down your inside pants leg is not pleasant. Was glad that I didn't use the restroom at a store in town.

Thank goodness I'm at the point where I haven't had a newbie mistake for a while.

P95Carry
October 2, 2003, 07:35 PM
You wear a gun around the house? Saxon ......... yeah .... I carry 24/7 .... so, despite working for self and based around home most of time I carry .... regardless. It is like my wrist watch and is there at all times. Thus I expect that in the unlikely event of ever needing it, when I reach round it WILL be there.

At home most times I am effectively open carry, at least when top shirt off ... I guess that makes for more need re ''outside'' discipline ..... when in public places. I don't think I really have a prob re being seen carrying most of time - except for what I mentioned earlier on, re the possible consequences of being made if seen unconcealed in public when my permit is very much for concealed, and a complaint made.

Pretty gun-savvy area in general which helps but ..... still those freak-out types always around, here and there .... more in and around town than out in sticks where I am.

SodaPop
October 3, 2003, 07:26 PM
Most people probable would have just thought you were an LEO or security person.

They way you act pretty much tells people how to act.

WonderNine
November 21, 2003, 01:12 AM
Luckily I've never been "made", but then I rarely carry my BHP.

99% pocket carry here.

oldman
November 21, 2003, 09:22 PM
Fourdeuce82d,
JesseH,

So how are things with CHL's in Texas? I'll be there no later than probably March next year. (either that or somewhere in Ariz.) If it's Texas, then it'll probably be Dallas. 6 months as a resident, correct?

ChickenHawk
November 21, 2003, 10:23 PM
P95Carry,

At the least, I hope you were carrying your Duo-Tone Bursa Thunder so everyone who saw it would be thinking, "Wow, that's one nice looking gun he's got there!" :p

ChickenHawk

P95Carry
November 21, 2003, 10:32 PM
At the least, I hope you were carrying your Duo-Tone Bursa Thunder so everyone who saw it would be thinking, "Wow, that's one nice looking gun he's got there!" hahaha! No such luck dude!! Hadn't got it then, quite. Nope .. that was the ole faithful M85 snub that day .. not even SP ........ nothing fancy at all! :p

Hey Chicken .. have I missed a Thunder write-up yet? Have a devil of a job catching all threads these days.

Lennyjoe
November 21, 2003, 11:55 PM
I conceal carry 95% of the time, Open carry the rest. No problems with open carry here.

Gosh, its nice being in a Gun Friendly state:neener:

ChickenHawk
November 22, 2003, 01:00 PM
Hey Chicken .. have I missed a Thunder write-up yet?
I guess you must have!

Clicke Right Here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50597) to read it.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

Hardtarget
November 23, 2003, 02:16 AM
I always carry very concealed...but I always worry about the very thing you described. It is just a thing that bothers me so I'm very aware of my cover garment. Funny thing is my wife has spotted two ccw in the past three years. I think I've seen two "possables". I hope you've made it without any problems!
Mark.

sturmruger
November 26, 2003, 04:59 PM
I used to work at a Ford dealership. The guy that sold all the soaps and other cleaning supplies was talking to me one day. He adjusted his pants and I recognized the rear site of a Glock. Later when it was just me and him in his truck I asked him how he liked carrying IWB, and if he was happy with his Glock. He got this scared look on his face and asked me what I was talking about. I told him that I wasn't trying to scare him I just wanted to know how he liked the IWB holster. I have never carried that was and have been thinking about getting somethign like that for summer. After a bit of explaining he even pulled out his gun and showed it to me. I didn't have mine on me at the time, but we sat out there for a half hour talking guns.


So far I have never been made by anyone, and until Wi. overides our Govenors vetoe it looks like I won't have a chance to be made except when I am in IA again.

greg531mi
November 29, 2003, 01:13 PM
I had a scare once while carrying. It was a resort town here in Michigan, and I was going in a art gallery, put out my just lit cigarette, and went in, the clerk asked me what I was carrying! My colt pony was in my front pocket, and I thought he was referring to it! He was more worried about my cig in my clenched hand. He thought it was lit!! I told him as I openned up my hand, I was not that crazy to have a lit cig burning in my clenched hand... He never spotted my gun, in my front pocket of my jeans. That is why I carry it there, I spotted one the other day at the gun counter of sporting gooods store, He had it on his waist.

JiminCA
November 30, 2003, 11:32 AM
I did this once. Was staying at a hotel in LA. Got up, put on rig, went down for breakfast. Nature called and I went to the bathroom. Not thinking much I tucked my shirt in and went on about my business. (I wear a tuckable rig).

Walked through the lobby, checked out, chatted with the guys at the desk (I stayed there almost every week at the time), and went out to my car. As I sat in the car I realized I had done everything with my shirt tucked inside my gun.

No one ever said a word at the hotel. There were lots of people checking out, etc. The staff greeted me as usual the next week.

People are either scared, polite, or totally unobservant. I vote for the last one, because the people there knew me well enough to ask had they noticed.

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