[campergeek]

This was in today's Saint Louis Post-Dispatch. The writer's disregard for fact and affinity for emotion is evident, as typical. I'll avoid ranting, as you can read the drivel for yourself.

Vigilante justice? Missourians must have a death wish (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/Columnists.nsf/Sylvester+Brown+Jr./6829A0DBD9E5875A86256DB1000A845B?OpenDocument&Headline=Vigilante+justice%3F+Missourians+must+have+a+death+wish)

[LiquidTension]

LOL that article was funny. I wish there was some sort of messag board on that page that let everyone know how ridiculous the guy is. He's making the same unsubstantiated claims that antis always make that never come true. I thought about firing off an email, but then decided that this is one guy that's too far gone to bother with.

[Harold Mayo]

What an idiot. Same tired old anti-gunner rant with no basis in fact of any sort. Sad, sad Sylvester Brown.

His e-mail address and telephone number are both at the bottom of the article. Perhaps we should inform him of his misconceptions...?

:D

Yeah...I think I will...:evil:

[greyhound]

A fistfight can easily become a shootout if one or both combatants have guns. A handgun within arm's reach is a tempting tool to scare the guy that just cut you off in traffic. What happens if that person has a gun also? It's difficult enough dealing with drunken drivers. Now we have to deal with drunken, armed drivers?

These clowns don't even bother to look at the stats from the other states.
It all about emotion and "how things make me feel" to them.

Don't fall for it, Missouri.

[outdoorman63]

that we are dangerous..we take a class...we pass our checks..we understand the responsibility..but look how dangerous it is when they give idiots like him the ability to post his opinion..not even using the facts or the the truths...most police agencies liked the idea....i am so sick of people like him....

[Baba Louie]

Emailed to Mr Brown at 5:53 AM (Pacific Standard)
Question to all, will he catch any of the ironic sarcasm?

sylvesterbrown@post-dispatch.com

An interesting and well thought out column Mr. Brown. It sounds as though you also feel that protecting your life from the ner-do-wells in life isn’t worth the trouble of taking a class and being subjected to background checks, fingerprints, mug shots and being registered with your local Sheriff’s department as one who can now, legally, carry a concealed weapon has any validity as you may decide to actually use said weapon in an illegal manner in a moment of haste and anger.

I agree with you sir. You are correct.

I predict that the streets of Missouri will run red with the blood of innocent victims due to those few misguided persons willing to go through all of the above and carry a legally concealed weapon for personal defense. It has happened in each of the other three dozen or so states that have allowed such foolishness, hasn’t it? I have yet to read a serious report about crime dropping anywhere as a result of a few thousand legally armed citizens carrying concealed weapons.

I much prefer the lower crime statistics of Washington DC, Chicago, New York City and Los Angeles where the streets are safer as a result of serious gun control. No law-abiding citizen need carry a gun, that’s why we have the Police. It’s their job to carry guns while on duty, even if they have no duty or obligation to protect the individual tax-paying citizen.

I wish that everyone had enough common sense to allow only professional Law Enforcement and the criminal element to be armed. Much foolishness in this new law your State Assembly passed. Politics.

You’ll see firsthand and be able to report here in the Post-Dispatch that on October 11, 2004, indeed the bloody streets of St. Louis are not a bit safer than they were pre-CCW and that untold hundreds of those who actually received their permits to carry have been involved in numerous killings and acts of mayhem and or vigilantism.

Can you imagine, someone actually thinking about resisting a criminal and stopping a crime from occurring? It’s ludicrous on the whole. Walter Mitty lives. Or is it Charley Bronson?

Robert Ballew

I'll bet he agrees with it on the whole, as written

Adios

[axeman_g]

All,
Some editorial skill would be appreciated before I send it off ....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mr Brown,

Your argue in your column "Vigilante justice? Missourians must have a death wish", that the lives and safety of the people of Missouri will be more endangered by their neighbors carrying concealed weapons per the passing of the Concealed Carry Law on Oct 11, 2003. Your attitude could not be more unfounded. Very simply stated, a person that passes the state mandated background check and the 8 hour weapons training class is by default a responsible, law abiding citizen. You can not apply to get a CCW with any sort of blemish on your legal past. The training received by the prospective armed citizens will demand that they display safe and proficient usage of a handgun before being granted certification. These law abiding people of Missouri are not time bombs waiting to explode when ignited by the flame of concealed carry. To insunate that they are is to insult your readers and neighbors.

I am not a citizen of Missouri, but of Georgia. Here in Georgia all law abiding citizens can receive a CCW. There are rules that must be followed such as no carrying in schools, churches or restraunts that serve alchohol and a CCW must identify themselves to police officers and announce if they are armed at that specific time. Do yourself a favor, go ask your St. Louis Metropolitan Police force members whom they would prefer to pull over for a traffic violation ... A person that hands over a CCW identity card with their Drivers License and announces they are carrying a handgun or someone else.

You bias against guns and fear of a citizens personal responsibility for their own safety shows throughout your article. I hope you or someone you love is never a victim of a violent crime where someone with a CCW could have prevented or stopped the crime before it happened.
I would not want you to be in a position to have to choose sides.

[OEF_VET]

What a maroon! Someone needs to show him the light.

[Zark-9]

YEAH MISSOURI!!

Mr. Brown must have very bad dreams about what the little voices in his head would tell him to do if he ever touched a pistol.

[another okie]

"Your" bias, not "you" bias. You argue or your argument, but not "your argue"

You have used "by default" somewhat incorrectly. You mean that this person has been proven to be responsible. Put the words "has been proven to be" in place "by default is..."

cannot, not can not

misspelled: restaurant, insinuate, alcohol

driver's license, not drivers license

Paste the whole thing into a Word or Wordperfect file and run a spell-check program. This is a good general practice.

You say you cannot apply for a CCW with a blemish. This is not true. You can apply. You will not receive a CCW with a blemish.

Good message.

[Black Snowman]

Wow, the paper must want to fire this guy. I guess hoping to get enough back-lash or something. I've seen Jr. High students write better. I can't imagine an editor wanting to print that.

[Hot brass]

This is an uninformed writer. He is ignorant of the facts. This is one of the sheeple that will go down saying "guns" are bad and so are all athat have them. When and if he has a run in with a BG and is hurt or a loved one is hurt and he realizes he may have been able to prevent the violent offense or some thing like a black out, civil disruption, roving gang, or even a house breaker he may see the light. In the mean time he is a lost individual. To look at this from an opposite view, he is dangerous with a pen, type writer, or computer. His writings will cause people to lay down their arms. His employer should have him jailed for such hateful thinking.

[spacemanspiff]

here is my email.....

Dear Mr. Brown

I am writing to you from Alaska. I have read the article you wrote about Missouri’s new concealed carry laws. I can understand why you have such fears of armed citizens. I used to be afraid of the same thing. In fact, I used to think that no one had a reason to own a firearm, except if they used them to hunt.

When I became a gunowner, I still held these opinions. It wasn’t until I did my own research and uncovered the truths behind firearm violence and the statistics being used by both the anti-gun lobby and the pro-gun lobby. I suggest you do your own research. Try starting at the reports found at the CDC website from the National Vital Statistics agency. Each year they report on the number of deaths throughout the country, split them out by cause of death, age, race, sex, all the way down to specific causes such as accidents, homicide, suicide, etc. This was very eye opening to me, and I knew I could trust the figures the CDC produces since they have no stake in promoting or deriding firearm ownership.

What you must realize is that the statistics distributed by Violence Policy Center or the Brady Campaign are not just exaggerated, but misused to further their goals of disarming every law abiding citizen.
It is often predicted that ‘blood will run in the streets’ the moment that concealed-carry laws are passed. That is not true. Criminals have always carried guns concealed even though it is ‘illegal’ for them to do so. That is what makes them ‘criminals’: their willingness to break laws. An armed populace has a detrimental effect on crime, and this has been proven time and time again. Read John Lott’s book “More Guns- Less Crime” for proof positive of such.

Responsible adults who carry guns know that the firearm is the LAST RESORT, not the first thing grabbed when someone cuts you off in traffic or flips you the bird. Responsible armed adults know that carrying a gun does not make them Superman, nor does it make them exempt from behaving responsibly at all times. It is also understood that firearm ownership is a Right. This right is not granted because of the BoR or Constitution. Those documents merely RECOGNIZE that all humans have such rights.

Mr Brown, your fear of firearms is one thing. Making suggestions based on your irrational fear is dangerous though. What if someone took your advice and chose not to be armed? Suppose that person is injured or even killed because of your advice? Is there a moral victory somewhere because of your anti-gun OPINIONS?

[toro]

Spacemanspiff -- WOW! That was a GREAT letter.


They just never give up. As Jeff Cooper writes, the number of sociopaths in a stipulated population varies widely, but we can take a figure of one in one hundred, for simplicity's sake, and not be far off. About one person in one hundred will, under some circumstances, initate a violent attack upon another, in defiance of the law, for reasons which seem sufficient to him at the time. Take the able-bodied male population of your community, divide it by 100, and you have a fair approximation of the numer of possible contacts who just might take it upon them-selves to beat your head in. Anyone who is aware of his environment knows that the peril of physical assault does exist, and that it exists everywhere and at all times. The police, futhermore., can protect you from it only relatively occasionally.

Mrs. Toro


_____________________________________________________
Isaiah 42:13
The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war; he shall cry, ye, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

[Standing Wolf]

I much prefer the lower crime statistics of Washington DC, Chicago, New York City and Los Angeles where the streets are safer as a result of serious gun control.

Baba Louie, that's outstanding!

[Vasilia Zhietzev]

..called the damnfoolyankee, left a voicemail, invited him to lunch. can't wait to meet him.

heh-heh.

just wait, boys.

[Atticus]

My note to Mr. Brown

Mr. Brown:
I find it interesting that you used the movie "Death Wish" as an example, and yet made no mention of the fact that Charles Bronson's daughter (in that movie) could have defended herslf from rape in the first place had she been armed, thereby eliminating any need for revenge or vigilanteeism. You missed the point of the movie - and you miss the point of legalized concealed carry. You've also apparently missed the fact that 44 states already have concealed carry laws, and none have experienced the problems of which you speak. Reporters these days never seem to let facts get in the way when writing hysterical articles. To quote the Bronson character, "Do you believe in Jesus?" I hope you do, since you refuse to exercise your God given right to self defense. That's your choice Mr.Brown- but it's not mine. I prefer to protect myself from the scum who do indeed prey on innnocent law abiding folks...inlcuding my daughters.

[StLGlocker]

There's a reason this paper's nickname is the Post Disgrace. My letter...

Dear Mr. Brown,

I see you've chosen to trot out the same tired arguments that always come up when a state passes a CCW law, so I won't spend much time refuting them. 40-plus states precede Missouri on CCW, and some of those have had the law in place for decades. The predictions of road rage incidents and garden-variety arguments escalating into gunfire haven't come true in any of them. There's hardly a reason to think Missouri will be any different. This is real life, not an action film.

I did want to comment on some of the assertions you make regarding police officers. You wrote, "Many times police quickly draw their weapons because they believe people are armed." That's an absurd claim. The vast majority of law enforcement officers spend their entire careers without ever unholstering their sidearm, other than to qualify a few times per year at the firing range. They undergo quite a bit of training regarding appropriate use of force, and drawing down on someone they "think might be armed" would get them into trouble very quickly. If you'd bothered to talk to any of them, they'd have told you so.

As for motor vehicle stops, smart officers already approach EVERY vehicle as if the occupants are armed. It's the goons carrying illegally they've had to worry about all along, not the honest citizen who submits to fingerprinting, a background check, and eight hours of gun safety training.

Finally, this is just too much: "A handgun within arm's reach is a tempting tool to scare the guy that just cut you off in traffic." Are you insane? What do you do currently, stomp on the gas and ram the back of the other guy's car? That would scare him, wouldn't it? Please let me know where and what you drive, I'd like to avoid cutting you off in traffic any time soon.

[marvl]

I'm sorry, guys. But when the truth stares me in the face I have no recourse but to embrace it:


Dear Mr. Brown,

You're a moron.

Sincerely,

Marv in Colorado

:banghead:

[outfieldjack]

I probably should have thought this through... but here is what I sent him...

I was going to take the time to sit down and write an
educated response to your article.... then I thought
I'd just put forth as much thought into my e-mail as
you did into your article. That being said, here is
my e-mail response:

You ani-gun, anti-right to self defense, moron.

I'm surprised that the paper you work for lets you
write such junk. All you have are "what if's". Well,
here are some more "what-if's" for you....

What if someone attacks a woman and she DEFENDS
herself with a handgun that she is trained with?

What if a home invader is shot and killed by someone
protecting his or her family?

I live in SC and we have had CWP laws for over five
years now. The latest statistics show that about
.005% of CWP holders have been involved in a firearms
related issue that caused them to lose their permit.
Criminals (non CWP holders) still make up 99.99% of
the firearm related crimes here in SC. And I can
assure you that almost EVERY DAY I read about someone
using a firearm to PROTECT themselves from these
criminals.

Sorry about that.... I was actually using FACTS and
COMMONSENSE to reply to your article.... and I said I
was only going to put forth as much effort to show the
truth that you were.... oh well.

Jack Porter

[hillbilly]

My email to the idiot....


Man, oh man.....can't you at least find some new, inventive, creative
disinformation to spew in your column against CCW in Missouri?

Your lame, tired arguments--that concealed carry permit holders will turn
every day disagreements into Wild West shootouts--happens only in the mind
of rabid anti-gunners who have no facts to support their heated, bloody
emotionally-fueled fantasies.

Over 40 states have had CCW. Check out what's happened in the other 40
states.

Florida has had CCW since 1987....that's 16 years worth of data and
experience......and guess what? None of what your fevered brain foresees has
happened in Florida in 16 years.....But I suppose hope springs eternal in
the bosoms of rabid anti-gun-nuts?

The only way your predictions can bear fruit is if the rumors I've heard are
true: namely that average Missourians are truly just more ignorant, violent,
bloodthirsty, backwards, and evil than the citizens of those other
40-something states.

[Andrew Rothman]

Mine:
------------

Hello! I just read your opinion column.

Very respectfully, I have to ask, have you looked at the other thirty-some sahll-issue concealed carry states?

Can you find cases of fistfights turning to gunfights among permit holders? Permit holders engaging in road rage shootings? Permit holders acting as vigilantes?

It just hasn't happened. In fact, permit holders in other states are overwhelmingly more law-abiding than non-permit-holders. Why do you anticipate that Missourians will be worse?

Your column is not a "hard news" story, but as a public voice, don't you have a pretty strong regard for truth?

You write "Though no one wants to be a victim, becoming a vigilante for the state is hardly a solution."

That's what is called a false dichotomy. But you're a smart guy -- I think you know that already.

Permit holders aren't victims, nor are they vigilantes. They are those who wish for a bit of an edge against the more than 30,000 violent crimes that take place in Missouri every year.

Call a newspaper in Minnesota, which has had concealed carry for five months, Florida or Texas, which has had it for years, or Vermont, which has had it forever. Do a NEXIS search! Ask them about all the permit holders with no self control. But you won't find many.

Then write a column based on fact, not irrational fear.

Good luck!

Sincerely,

Matt Payne

[einnor1040]

I grew up in Missouri (Misery)

I'm so glad I don't live there now.

[bogie]

I feel evil... Get 'em to march right in to your ambush, then hit 'em with everything you have... And they DO NOT like to be reminded of the dirty history of gun control.

==========

I suspect you've seen more than a few of these.

My girlfriend is worried that Missouri has had concealed carry passed. She's worried that there's now a greater likelihood of her being assaulted, attacked, raped, etc., in her neighborhood, or on her drive from her house to work.

Yes. She's worried. You see, she lives in Granite City, and she figures that once criminals learn that it's more dangerous for them to prey upon _possibly_ armed Missourians, they'll venture to the east side in search of easier prey. You see, Illinois is one of the five states (and the District of Columbia) that doesn't allow its citizens the means to defend themselves. They _all_ have higher than average violent crime rates.

So she's moving to Missouri!

Now for my feelings on your article... Frankly, I'm _very_ insulted. Missourians, despite what you claim, are NOT inferior beings, when compared to the other 44 states which allow concealed carry. Are you some sort of racist? Because gun control has its roots sunk deep into the Jim Crow laws, and was designed to disarm freed black men (and women) so that they could be more easily oppressed. I cannot believe that ANYONE with any social conscience would support ensuring that non-criminal segments of the population be rendered defenseless. Defenseless against criminals, defenseless against oppression, and defenseless against mindless thuggery.

If you're just tranferring your attitude to others, I feel for you. Please don't pick up a weapon, and please try to control yourself on the highways. I drive carefully and politely, and will do my best to avoid angering you.

[ScottsGT]

But the big question is, Do you really think this moron is going to read any of these letters?? Maybe everyone should CC the editor of the paper?

[Atticus]

He'll read some. Then he will write a follow-up article about all the mail he got from the "gun nuts". He'll admit that some writers were nice, and that others were threatening. Then he'll say nananananana... I still don't like people carrying guns...so there. This one's been played out before, many times and in many places.

[mephisto]

I never have understood sayings like “a false sense of power” or “a false sense of security”. I can see what people might be trying to say. But really if you have a fist and I have a .357 that’s a true sense of power and a true sense of security. If I can feel some sense of security while I am “CCWing” than that great. I really like the drunk driving gunslinger reference. Its so abstract is funny.