9mm Mak pistol questions


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gepreston
February 6, 2009, 04:11 PM
I’m not looking for opinions on which Eastern Block country made the best pistol or debating whether the Soviet/Polish/Hungarian pistols are “Walther Clones.” What I’d like to know (from people that own them or have knowledge of them) is if it is safe to carry the Polish/Hungarian/Soviet pistols (for lack of a better term “Walther clones”) with a round in the chamber, hammer in the “at rest” position, and safety OFF. By “safe” I’m comparing it to say carrying a S&W J frame DA pistol, or one of the small DAO .380’s with a round in the chamber.

I’m a lefty and I’ve spoke to a few gun smiths about adding a ambidextrous safety to one of these inexpensive little guns and have been told it could not be done. Since I’m looking for an inexpensive (I’ve found the Hungarian and Polish models for less than $200 OTD) semi auto that will spend most of it’s life in the glove box of my truck and a little time stuck in my pocket (in a holster) I’d like to know if carrying it that way is as safe as say a revolver (which I do carry almost everywhere).

So, experts, I’ll thank you in advance. BTW I’ve found the polish p-64 (made in 1972) for $160 otd with about 200 rounds of old wolf ammo in for a kicker….. Good price right?

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GZOh_Jr
February 6, 2009, 06:35 PM
CZ82s come in 9mm Mak, and can be had as we speak for under $200.

http://classicarms.us/
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/cz82pistolpartcz82-gun.aspx

They have ambi safeties if I remember correctly. It doesn't have a decocker, but can be carried cocked and locked. The gun is double stack, so it is a bit thicker than others, but accordingly has higher capacity. It is also considered at least a notch above, quality wise.

Good luck!

wnycollector
February 6, 2009, 09:54 PM
+1 on the cz-82 suggestion.

Steve C
February 6, 2009, 10:20 PM
Soviet/Polish/Hungarian pistols are “Walther Clones.” What I’d like to know (from people that own them or have knowledge of them) is if it is safe to carry the Polish/Hungarian/Soviet pistols (for lack of a better term “Walther clones”) with a round in the chamber, hammer in the “at rest” position, and safety OFF.

The Makarov's can be carried the way you describe. The hammer is rebound type and blocked back from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled just as on the Walther PPK series pistols it was copied from. This of course assumes a pistol in 100% mechanical correct operating condition. Any true Walther clone should be the same but I can't answer for all the various Eastern European clones.

If you are examining one for purchase, drop the hammer gently while holding the trigger to the rear, once the hammer reaches its forward drop you should be able to push it to the breach face against the rebound spring. Release the trigger and allow the hammer to rebound. If you then try to push the hammer forward without the trigger being pulled it should be blocked back away from firing pin contact.

JohnKSa
February 6, 2009, 10:46 PM
There are no Polish or Hungarian Makarovs that I am aware of. Makarovs were made in Germany, Bulgaria, Russia and China.

Makarovs can be carried safely with a hammer down on a chambered round. There is a rebounding hammer safety that prevents the hammer from reaching the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. I don't know about the P64 because it is a completely different gun than the Mak.

jonnyc
February 6, 2009, 11:38 PM
I'm a lefty also, and I've carried my DDR Makarov just that way...never a concern.

Pilot
February 7, 2009, 09:15 AM
Either get a CZ-82 as they are great guns currently at a great price or look for a Bulgarian Pistolet Makarov, not a Walther clone.

usp9
February 7, 2009, 10:50 AM
I’d like to know if carrying it that way is as safe as say a revolver (which I do carry almost everywhere).

The P64 has a rather heavy DA trigger pull and should be as safe as any other to carry, as long as it's in a suitable holster. The only real drawback to what you propose is the weight. A P64 has a bit of weight for discreet pocket carry. Otherwise it looks like a good deal. The P64 is robust and would make a good glove box gun. Because the trigger pull is so heavy, the safety is almost redundant and unneccesary.

FWIW, IMHO, the Polish guns seem to be very well made and finely finished compared to many commie productions.

bluetopper
February 7, 2009, 11:00 AM
There's no safer semi-auto pistol to be carried with one in the pipe than a Makarov.
You can throw it down on concrete and it won't fire.

tinygnat219
February 8, 2009, 12:11 AM
Don't get one of those silly Comblock PA-63 or 64s... There is the CZ-82. It's already got the ambidextrous safety, has an ambidextrous magazine release, and it's got a nicer trigger. Of course, you will have to pay an additional 80 bucks for all this. :rolleyes:

Ron James
February 8, 2009, 12:52 AM
It has mentioned that the CZ 82 is safe to carry " Cocked and Locked", why would you carry such a pistol as the CZ 82 in such a mode. It's double action, very smooth trigger pull and is safe to carry chambered with the hammer down. Just curious.:confused:

Pilot
February 8, 2009, 09:40 AM
It has mentioned that the CZ 82 is safe to carry " Cocked and Locked", why would you carry such a pistol as the CZ 82 in such a mode. It's double action, very smooth trigger pull and is safe to carry chambered with the hammer down. Just curious.


Some people like a consistant trigger pull from the first shot on. Hence the popularity of 1911's, BHP's, Glocks, etc.

Guy de Loimbard
February 8, 2009, 02:03 PM
I have both a CZ-82, and now a P64 which I just picked up yesterday afternoon. My observation is that neither would be a suitable pocket gun, the P-64 is 22 ounces and the CZ-82 is 32 (both unloaded). Both are safe to carry hammer down, they both have rebounding hammers, and besides that the CZ has a hammer block while the P-64 has a firing pin block.

A word of advice about the P-64, if you end up buying that, you will probably want to order a new mainspring for it; the comments about a rather heavy DA trigger are no exaggeration. I can't pull the DA trigger through all the way on mine with just one finger, it's that stiff.

Devilfrog
February 9, 2009, 12:10 AM
I have 2 CZ-82s in they both shoot great and are reliable. I carry 1 loaded with Hornady XTPs (12+1).

Mastiff
February 9, 2009, 03:09 AM
It has mentioned that the CZ 82 is safe to carry " Cocked and Locked", why would you carry such a pistol as the CZ 82 in such a mode. It's double action, very smooth trigger pull and is safe to carry chambered with the hammer down. Just curious.

I have to carry it that way. I have very small hands and can not reach the trigger double action, but I can reach it "Cocked and Locked". That is the main reason why I bought it. The other reason was the excellent quality for the small amount of $$.

Olympus
February 9, 2009, 10:57 AM
If you're saying "Walther clones" then you're likley referring to the P-64 and similar style pistols. The real Makarovs I don't think look anything like a Walther so I wouldn't call them clones. But the Polish P-64 does have a high resemblence to the Walther PPK. From what I've read, the P-64 isn't so much as a clone as it is a copy. In it's development, it was hard for the designers to break away from the popular Walther design. But the P-64 wasn't made to be an exact clone of the Walther, it just copied a lot of the same designs.

It's a great little gun though. I carry mine 6+1 with the hammer down and the safety OFF. The P-64 safety is also a decocker. There is no way to have the hammer back and have it on safe. So everyone that I know that has one, carries it with the safety off and one in the chamber. I changed out my hammer spring to lighten the DA pull and it's still a stiff pull.

Marlin 45 carbine
February 9, 2009, 11:18 AM
it is safe to carry chamber loaded, safety off due to trigger must be pulled for hammer to fall on firing pin and a fairly stiff trigger spring in D.A. mode.
surprisingly accurate pistols, slim lines and 9 shots available. the 'premium' ammo is a gouge to buy tho. or at least the stuff I've come across is.
the 'Silver Bear' steel cased FMJ shoots OK in mine but a little sooty.

ARTiger
February 9, 2009, 11:26 AM
+1 on getting a CZ 82. Of all the combloc 9x18's out there, it's the only truly modern design having a double stack magazine, ambi safety, polygonal rifling, etc.

mp510
February 9, 2009, 11:26 AM
If you're saying "Walther clones" then you're likley referring to the P-64 and similar style pistols. The real Makarovs I don't think look anything like a Walther so I wouldn't call them clones.
It sounds like he is refferring to the Feg PA-63 which is Hungarian and in 9x18mm and bears a strong resemblance to the Walther PP and PPK type pistols.

woad_yurt
February 9, 2009, 12:14 PM
No, he's talking about the Polish P-64.

gepreston:
If you are in the market for a decent sometimes-carry gun, don't discount the Feg PA 63. If you invest about $15 in Wolff springs (hammer and recoil,) you'll have a fantastic, light dependable pistol. As made, the DA trigger is a bear and the recoil is a bit stiff. But, with the lighter hammer spring and the heavier recoil spring, it becomes a whole 'nother gun. The P-64 also benefits similarly from spring replacement but it's noticeably heavier. The Feg becomes a very nice pistol after one gives it a little TLC. And, yes, you can safely carry it with one in the chamber while the safety is off.

I bought a Feg out of curiosity and because it was so cheap but it's become my carry gun if I'm wearing enough clothing to conceal it. In shorts-and-tee-shirt weather it's a P3AT but anytime else, it's the Feg. Also, in maybe 500-600 rounds, it's never jammed on me.

If you're still thinking about a P-64, keep in mind that, aside from the extra weight, sights are tiny, tiny, tiny. The CZ 82 is a great pistol but it's also a lot bigger and bulkier and not as convenient for carry.

If you'd really like to get serious, though, a Makarov is the one that outshines all of the Com-Bloc 9X18 pistols. It's the easiest to master, by far. However, it's definitely not as light as the PA 63.

PS: Folks, please, every 9X18 gun is not a "Makarov." What would you think of someone who didn't know what make of the car he/she drove? Also, the term "Walther clone" is misleading. A Walther has many, many more parts and pins and stuff; it's not even close. A slight superficial resemblance coupled with very different internal workings does not a clone make.

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